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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Sun, 17 August 2003 16:47
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okay now i want valid opinions, no "buy a ____ (insert model here)" shit, cool? a friend of mine needs your help
you have
1 x JDM ae86 Levin, white, TRD/Cusco suspension bits and pieces, after market 2.25 inch exhaust (headers to muffler), TRD 2 way LSD, TRD rearlip + sideskirts, stock GTAPEX interior (no stereo at ALL), almost fucked 86kw 4age , stocker gearbox, 14" watanabe wheels + new tyres, + $4000 to spend
do you
1. get a AE111 4A-GE engine transplant + spray the bumpers black?
2. recondition motor +remove rust/shave locks and paint it panda in 2 pack?
3. get the engine reconditioned and spend the rest on nicer recaro/bride seats, a head unit + replacement speakers and a short shift kit?
4. recondition motor + buy a carbon fibre bonnet + get new cusco strut braces front and back?
5. replace suspension bits like panhard rods and swaybars?
6. gearbox or brake upgrade?
mix and match guys
i want your opinions
be specific
he cant decide and wants to see what other fellow owners would do?
what what YOU do if it was yours?
ive already told him to get the 20v and check for rust but he doesnt listen to just me 
[Updated on: Sun, 17 August 2003 16:53]
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Sun, 17 August 2003 22:55
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number 4 and some new suspension.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 00:15
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I personally would sort out the motor and the susp first which is what makes the car
THEN do the cosmetics
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 01:24
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so you think he should not get a 20v?
just another smallport 100kw? or just get it reconditioned?
whats the main differences with big and small port engines?
he could spend money on new 288 degree cams some quad throttles and new pistons? would it be better to start on a bigport for this?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 02:10
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Go the small port.. It makes 100kw stock for a reason.
The 20v isnt *that* much better than the 100kw version.
And with the left over cash you could put cams etc into it, quad throtts etc.
The suspension mods seem quite good for the moment so get the clapped out motor sorted first.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 04:00
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I'd personally with that set up leave the paint alone except to colour code the bumpers and mirrors.
Then I'd recondition the original engine with a port an polish job and reprogram the computer to match.
I'm not sure why he'd replace the trd/cusco suspension.
I don't think there's much point in a carbon fibre bonnet with his current engine set up.
Unless he's using it to circuit race I'd spend the rest on a stereo set up.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 04:29
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what else do you need to do to an engine to make it "like-new" again?
replace all internal parts? new cams?
cranks? head gasket and seals? pistons? sparkplugs? ignition leads?
how about all that and 20v quad throttles? timing cams and new belts with a full head job and under shim bucket piston conversion?
get all that for $4000? i dont think so ....
if we were to reconditon that old fucker of an engine i think he will want as much power as he can get? its al;ready got 230000 on the clock and hes hell-bent on quad throttles *i dunno why* thats why the 20v was an easy fix. that solution fixed all the "engine" probs and he got quad throttles for "free"
hes asking for my help coz im teaching him about ae86's but he still wnats the best bang for buck (dont be all). were going to do it together for fun and learning but need opinions from others
hes not that interested in stereo's, just a nice head unit and a couple of splits? ($1000 worth maybe?)
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 04:34
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well you can get a genuine rebuild kit for around 500 bucks. get the block machined and honed, The head decked.. maybe some flow porting (not many gains to be made so why bother?) Get some cams, new valvetrain shim under bucket gear. a decent head gasket and raise the compression a bit.
Fit quad throttles and i reckon this could be put together for 2-3 K easy.. then you need an ECU to run it.
i know i rather the worked 16v over a 20V ... they just seem so much more fun and have a nicer growl to them.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 05:00
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"hes not that interested in stereo's, just a nice head unit and a couple of splits? ($1000 worth maybe?)"
For $1000 he could get a $400 head unit, $400 splits and $200 6x9's and have a system pretty close to identical to mine which sounds good enough to last a while.
Wouldn't a 20v conversion cost more then $4000 in total?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 07:02
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how much is an ECU that could make it all work?
where can i get the rebuild kit from? is it better to go with a aftermarket kit?
are there any people in sydney who can do this kind of rebuild work?
hachiroku ben's workshop BEL performance comes to mind?
i can get a 20v conversion for $3300 mates rates tho
and that stereo setup is pretty nice for 1000
but he would only wants 2 good 6x9 and a HU >:) maybe replacement for the papercones in the dash
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 07:39
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I personally wouldnt go exactly to any of your options.. this is what i would do and it can be achieved for a fairly decent price as well i.e value for money
time to get more power, find a stuffed 20V bottom end and rebuild it with os piston kit from ACL, get the block shaved slightly. use either a bigport (for top end) or a small port head(for low down) and get it rebuilt, add some cams (262 or 272 should be reasonable) and some adjustable cam gears. buy some alloy shaving bits and get busy with the drill port matching. use some wet and dry to smooth out the finish and clean up the ports a bit more. If you can afford it buy or design some quad throttles then get an aftermarket ecu
that should give him plenty to play with, let me know when you want more info
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 08:58
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Fuck 20V, go 20B !!! i reckon an injected bridgeported atmo 20b Would go nice in an '86
Matt
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 09:28
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bah
rotors are for cop outs hahahaha j/k
irally - i like your options mate. very frankenstein.
some question. only coz your vage as usual 
1. "find a stuffed 20V bottom end" - cost? where?
2. "rebuild it with os piston kit from ACL" - who? and OS being over-shim? no? or OS Giken brand? i can get a balanced kit from toda for cheap. around $1300 and are they 20v pistons to match the block or big/small port pistons to match the head? also what compression? 11.3 or 11.0? bore?
3. "get the block shaved slightly" - what cost again and where and how much??
4. "use either a bigport (for top end) or a small port head(for low down)" - how about a small port and get the ports widened up a little? he wants want half/half of power + accel. not going to be bashing 7000 rpm all day for the small port. but he wants to be able to get power when he DOES hit it. 
5. "some cams (262 or 272 should be reasonable)" - what lift? stock lift? or 8 or 9 or more? we will need to upgrade the valvetrain if it goes any higher right? is 288 too much?
6. "some adjustable cam gears" - toda racing brank ok? to match the toda cams? i can get cheap toda shit thats all
7. "buy some alloy shaving bits and get busy with the drill port matching. use some wet and dry to smooth out the finish and clean up the ports a bit more." - drill port matching?
8. "If you can afford it buy or design some quad throttles then get an aftermarket ecu" - how about a microtech and 20v throttles?
theres the "letting you know for more info"
hehehe cheers dude
we are complete car/engine novices, but have a want to learn and a NEED to know, so we're ready for anything!
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Mon, 18 August 2003 11:02
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I'll give this a shot
1. around 200 bucks, trader, forums, wreakers etc etc.. hell a 100 kw GOOD cond block was 350 from a well known bris wreaker!
2. ACl is an aust brand engine parts company, they are rekown for their rings and bearings. Compression.. try and get it to 11.5:1.. thats what i was running while it seems high it can be done on 98 RON fuel.
3. your looking at no more then a few hundred for a hone and decked block thats also had a clean. basically they take some metal off the deck to raise the com ratios.
4. Just use the big port head with the small port/20V block. this is the best combo for a NA 4age reaching for some decent HP.
5 i was running 320 duration cams... yes it was big.. 288 is large and prolly a decent enough size.. you WONT be able to run a stock ecu but you prolly knew that anyway. No more then 1mm of factory lift is adviseable.. but if your going shim under bucket anyway then you can afford to go a little crazy on the lift side. i was running large cams and 1.5mm extra lift with stock toyota vaolve train and it was pumping out 190 hp and 8500 rpm daily.
6. if its adjustable.. who cares what brand it is.. i mean i had home made ones on mine that did the same job ad 600 buck HKS ones do...
7. im not gonna answer this one
8. you WILL need an adaptor plate, but yeah.. microtech will do it fine im assuming.. i had an autronic on mine
| ae86drift wrote on Mon, 18 August 2003 19:28 |
bah
rotors are for cop outs hahahaha j/k
irally - i like your options mate. very frankenstein.
some question. only coz your vage as usual
1. "find a stuffed 20V bottom end" - cost? where?
2. "rebuild it with os piston kit from ACL" - who? and OS being over-shim? no? or OS Giken brand? i can get a balanced kit from toda for cheap. around $1300 and are they 20v pistons to match the block or big/small port pistons to match the head? also what compression? 11.3 or 11.0? bore?
3. "get the block shaved slightly" - what cost again and where and how much??
4. "use either a bigport (for top end) or a small port head(for low down)" - how about a small port and get the ports widened up a little? he wants want half/half of power + accel. not going to be bashing 7000 rpm all day for the small port. but he wants to be able to get power when he DOES hit it.
5. "some cams (262 or 272 should be reasonable)" - what lift? stock lift? or 8 or 9 or more? we will need to upgrade the valvetrain if it goes any higher right? is 288 too much?
6. "some adjustable cam gears" - toda racing brank ok? to match the toda cams? i can get cheap toda shit thats all
7. "buy some alloy shaving bits and get busy with the drill port matching. use some wet and dry to smooth out the finish and clean up the ports a bit more." - drill port matching?
8. "If you can afford it buy or design some quad throttles then get an aftermarket ecu" - how about a microtech and 20v throttles?
theres the "letting you know for more info"
hehehe cheers dude
we are complete car/engine novices, but have a want to learn and a NEED to know, so we're ready for anything!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Tue, 19 August 2003 02:35
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is this the 20v throttle in the middle?
the adaptor and the flutes can be bought for $600
specifically made for bigport/smallport heads
would this work ? where is the fuel rail on a bigport head?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Tue, 19 August 2003 03:33
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ok
just spoken to my mate
he likes the idea of a 20v/100kw block + bigport + quad throttles worked of its tits (something about being better than carbsand sounding just as good)
just wondering if we can squeeze it all in for under $4000 on the road again.
a cost outlay?
Head - Already Got this bit
Head Work - $200
Head Gasket - $180 (Thickness 1.0mm / Bore 82.5mm)
Cams - In - $500 (288 / 8.5 lift)
Ex - $550 (288 / 8.5 lift)
Adjustable Cam Pulley - $500-600
New Racing Timing Belt - $300 (Toda)
Block - $350
Block Hone and Deck - $250
New TRD engine mounts - $150
Piston Kit - $1500 (for balanced toda pistons - bore 82.00mm / displacement 1,627cc /compression 11.3 : 1 )
Autronic ECU - $???
20v Quad TB - $300 (washed and polished)
Adaptor Kit - $600
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TOTAL $5370 (and i havent got an ECU yet  )
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do my figures and parts all match, i tried to get it all accurate? will those pistons work with those cam and gasket?
and can someone fill me in on prices for the ??? ones above.
and maybe suggest cheaper ways to do it? i figure we can save on the pistons mostly and the Quad TB adaptor kit.
cheers fellas, if anyone comes round to help do it ill shout beef + beers
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Thu, 21 August 2003 09:34
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anyone ??
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Fri, 22 August 2003 05:16
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1. "find a stuffed 20V bottom end" - cost? where?
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keep looking around all the forums and newspapers, they come up every now and then
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"rebuild it with os piston kit from ACL" - who? and OS being over-shim? no? or OS Giken brand? i can get a balanced kit from toda for cheap. around $1300 and are they 20v pistons to match the block or big/small port pistons to match the head? also what compression? 11.3 or 11.0? bore?
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ACL are an Aus piston manufacturer, the kit incl. rings and gudgeon is about $250 and they only make one type for the 20V/100Kw and in standard or 1mm oversize
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get the block shaved slightly" - what cost again and where and how much??
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I goto Terry King at dominator performance in Guildford, he is very experienced and does a good job, the block no more than 10 thou and the head around 20 thou
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"use either a bigport (for top end) or a small port head(for low down)" - how about a small port and get the ports widened up a little? he wants want half/half of power + accel. not going to be bashing 7000 rpm all day for the small port. but he wants to be able to get power when he DOES hit it.
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its his engine he can do what he wants
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what lift? stock lift? or 8 or 9 or more? we will need to upgrade the valvetrain if it goes any higher right? is 288 too much?
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thats up to you, you need to work out what you want to achieve with what you are able to get your hands on and go from there
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"some adjustable cam gears" - toda racing brank ok? to match the toda cams? i can get cheap toda shit thats all
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I wouldnt waste my time on the aftermarket gears, its cheaper to get them made , im having 3 sets made at the moment which will cost around $250ish a set, if youre intereseted in one of the sets let me know, i will only have two sets spare and one is probly allready sold, ill post some pics up when theyre made up in about 2 weeks or so
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microtech and 20v throttles?
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that sounds like a good start
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buy some alloy shaving bits and get busy with the drill port matching. use some wet and dry to smooth out the finish and clean up the ports a bit more." - drill port matching?
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its pretty easy to do a rough job but patience will give you a good finish if you use the wet and dry as well
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Head - Already Got this bit
Head Work - $200
Head Gasket - $180 (Thickness 1.0mm / Bore 82.5mm)
Cams - In - $500 (288 / 8.5 lift)
Ex - $550 (288 / 8.5 lift)
Adjustable Cam Pulley - $500-600
New Racing Timing Belt - $300 (Toda)
Block - $350
Block Hone and Deck - $250
New TRD engine mounts - $150
Piston Kit - $1500 (for balanced toda pistons - bore 82.00mm / displacement 1,627cc /compression 11.3 : 1 )
Autronic ECU - $???
20v Quad TB - $300 (washed and polished)
Adaptor Kit - $600
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head work is free if you do it yourself
cams are about $800 for a set
pulleys as mentioned i wouldnt pay more than $300 for a set
dont waste money on Toda crap, a standard Gates belt will be more than suitable
dont worry about engine mounts either unless they are cracked or perished
dont waste your money on Toda crap the ACL's are fine for $250
displacement 1606cc (from my memory which is pretty crap )
a form of quads anywhere from $50 to $1600
adapter plate $250
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Fri, 22 August 2003 11:00
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hey IRA11Y sorry for hijackin the thread but im interest in thoes cams u were talking about wondering if they would suit oem ecu or forced induction??? if not still interested...
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Fri, 22 August 2003 11:06
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k sorry my mistake thought they were cams. cam gears arent realy worth it for my application, i dont think???
sry cya
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Location:
Auckland
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 modifying, what would YOU do?
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Sat, 23 August 2003 21:30
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For the ultimate in cheap cheap
redtop 100kw block
custom 2.5mm metal/graphite headgasket - will yield 8.5:1 compression ratio
bigport head
stock cams
stand alone ecu
DLI ignition
t3/4 turbo
fair sized injectors
that should all be under 3k
now
replace all bushes with nolethane or similar
GX70 / TA63 Strut swap - cheapcheap.
and make your own coilovers if you can
IF YOU CAN MAKE STUFF $4k can build a mean car
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