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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Sun, 24 August 2003 11:10
 
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This we know.
I have no problem controlling boost up to 1 bar (creeps and settles at nearly 1.1) , however when set at more than that wastegate creep starts a runanway trian with no hope of controlling boost below about 1.4 bar.
Andy's 1j does the same, but worse, specs are similar to yours Wastegate. Good to hear its common.
I'm with you on the turbos, not ever gunna take em off again.
Matt
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Sun, 24 August 2003 11:11
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Yeah, sick of messing around with toy turbos. Let's get a real one on there and get some power out of the thing!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Sun, 24 August 2003 11:36
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Whoa very schmick polishing job man!  
Macho good
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Sun, 24 August 2003 11:37
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Yojimbo: Cheers, yeah here I was trying to find out why it was going this as I have not heard of anyone have this problem before, but I guess they don't have a as free flowing system as myself. Cheers again, just confirms it's the norm.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 25 August 2003 02:34
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Off topic, but what did you use to paint the block? I like that colour and may go for something similar.
Go One Jay Zed power!
cheers,
Justin
JZA-61 in production
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 25 August 2003 02:42
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The block isn't painted by the looks of it...
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 25 August 2003 03:03
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Nope not painted, that is factory son!
It just sucks not being able to go WOT above 3500rpm as I find the boost cut rather hard!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 25 August 2003 04:31
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rockers?!?! 
It's not a SR20!
The CAM Covers are painted Candy Apple Red in 2Pak.
rockers.. phhtt
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 25 August 2003 05:17
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wastegate & the other guys that have put dual dump pipes on, has it made much difference? thinking of doing it to my 1ggte
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Location:
Yowie Bay, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 25 August 2003 09:35
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mate if u get twin pipes into ya 1g
let me know cos i personally didnt think there would be enough room
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 25 August 2003 13:45
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Let me see the results too, I'm looking at a pic of mine now and there is SFA room for them...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 25 August 2003 13:48
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one of the 1g halfcuts I checked out had HKS turbos on it and they had twin dump pipes.. but ofcourse they were spaced out a bit more.. I dont think you could imporve the dump pipe on the 1g really that much with the space provided.
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Location:
UK
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Tue, 26 August 2003 01:41
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| HedgehogSandwich wrote on Tue, 26 August 2003 01:30 |
So far the hybrids are the only mod (apart from the koyo, ATF cooler and shiny bits ). Anyway, i was going to run them at 1.25 bar for a while.. quickie questions..
1) whats the stock fuelling like at 1.25 bar with an FCD clamped just below 1bar 5v?
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Not good, they are only like 370cc injectors. I wouldn't go above 1 bar without bigger injectors and a computer of some sort to control them (power fc, motec, even a greddy emanage, not sure on simple ones like a Apexi SAFC)
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2) Ive got the first ever versions of these hybrids, and they didnt enlarge the wastegates (later versions had them altered), so am i likely to see problems with the wastegates at 1.2-1.3bar then? What will happen at that point?
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Not sure you might start seeing the same problem with the boost starting to be uncontrolable.
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Im currently running a very steady 0.9bar standard boost, no creep and with an FCD i dont think id creep omuch over 1bar.. boost seems solid. maybe this is because the standard Y pipe is restricting the flow and making the wastegates work better at that boost?
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BINGO!! That stock Y-Pipe is restricting flow and therefore helping the wastegates now. Very Simliar problem happens on the Jap 2JZ.
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3) Standard JZA70 intercooler (but cleaned internally) ..will it cope at 1.25bar?
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Ahhh ok you also have the stock IC then, no wonder your not seeing any problems I'm not sure on the IC holding that but I have seen others explode in the past.
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Wastegate.... how difficult was it to remove the 1JZ inlet manifold? Got any piccies of removal or instructions? I need to polish it, as you can see its the only thing missing from the polishing job
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eeekkk "runs screaming"
It's a real Pain in the Arse. More so if the engine is in the car. It's not as hard as the 7M not it's alot harder than a 2JZ.. I did it with the engine out of the car, took it off with the wiring loom in it. I can't imagine doing it in the car.
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Tue, 26 August 2003 02:09
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An adjustable FPR will sort out fuel issues if you are after a cheap fix. There is enough fuel available for moderate increase over 1 barr with a bit of extra fuel pressure.
Your intercooler will not explode, however it is such a restriction that your turbos will be working way hard to make 1.2 bar.
Removing Stock y pipe is the first mod to do to a 1j, then a decent cooler, after that there is no problem in running way more boost than most will recommend without any hassles.
I know of a couple running 1.2bar + on stock turbs all day with no failures (touch wood).
Matt
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Location:
UK
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Tue, 26 August 2003 12:55
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really i would look at power output .to determine how far you can push stock injectors i think around 240 rwkw( average dyno) will be about the limit of the stock injectors. just do a duty cycle test on the dyno .
i seriously doubt factory ignition will be able to cope with above 20 psi .Its barley copes now
boost controll is EASILLY fixed my controller will controll the overboost issues( tried and proven) .YO-JIMBO get your arse over my place and ill fit one to your car .we have already proven it works better than the hks electronic controller
The reason the elctronic cant contoll boost is because of the way it controlls boost .daves gt4 had the same problem it now holds the same boost (any boost) in all gears .
as does stueys 1ggte
info on my boost controll here http://home.kooee.com.au/celicamad/celicamad%20boo st%20control.htm
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Location:
UK
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Tue, 26 August 2003 13:18
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Your system certainly looks interesting if it is indeed as good as you say..
So are there any advantages to using it if still running stock boost? Ie my stock boost is 0.9 bar, so if i fit your system and *still* run 0.9 bar will this aid spoolup etc in any way?
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Wed, 27 August 2003 02:54
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celicamad: Thing is I am not running ANY boost control. Stock lines on actuators, no boost mods at all.. up to 3500 it holds 0.9bar fine, over this rev range boost just riases to hit boost cut. I can't see how your boost control can make the wastegates flow more..? Interested anyway.
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Wed, 27 August 2003 12:40
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even running factory boost the spool up time will increase slightly .however the boost controller will only bring the boost on as fast as the turbo can make it .so the actual rpm that you begin to make boost will barely chnage however the boost will come on FAST (depending how you adjust the controller)
In the case of the hybrids youll probably find that with the size of the wastegate that a certain minimum boost will be achived .this will depend on the turbo mods .But im not surprised that boost is much higher than stock
in your case if your running no controller at all and boost is higher than you want then yes improving wastegate flow is the only way to remove more boost (well the best way). i would remove the boost cut and see how much its making .it may only try to make 16 psi
but a lot of aftermarket boost controls are designed to handle VERY small flow rates and can only control boost to a given flow rate (in cfm) the boost will begin to rise .
a controller must bleed air of but still be able to maintain a stable pressure supply to the wastegate actuator .some valves actually lock open after a given flow rate therfore allowing boost to continue to rise .The valves i used are designed to flow up to 1000 cfm (through an 8mm tube).and are specifically calibrated to handle 0-2 bar
for example some people fit a controller and boost already rises a few PSI (bad sign) the controller should be able to keep boost the same as stock.
the best sign a controller isnt doing its job is different boost under diffferent load conditions eg up a hill
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Wed, 27 August 2003 13:06
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celicamad: Thanks for the reply but I would have to be honest and say that that was the only reply I was expecting To be totaly rude and quote myself
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Equals 0.9bar untill around 3500rpm then it rises up to 1.0 bar where it hits boost cut, with a FCD installed it went up to 1.25 before I jumped off the throttle... Wastegates are not flowing enough. Yes I could machine out the wastegates more but that would require taking off the turbos.. Something I'm not keen on as I have done it too many times now and the next time they are comming off is for the GT35R going on.
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So basicaly what this thread was about is I'm giving a warning to any 1JZ owners out there that is if you go and put on simliar mods to what I have then you will have wastegate flow problems.
Do not take this the wrong way but you are starting to stary off the path of this thread. It's just that you are marketing a product that is not a solution nor is a boost control problem. I'm sure your boost control works very well but it wouldn't help someone with my problem nor a simliar problem.
Cheers
Nick
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Sat, 30 August 2003 06:43
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i think my boost problems are partly my own fault as well, I hadnt thought about this in a while, but I deliberatley set up my boost controller in second gear, contrary to the manufacturers instructions.
In theory it should be set in 3rd or 4th gear.
However in aid of 0-100 times i usually set it in second gear to make sure i make as much boost as possible in 1st and 2nd gear.
The downside of this is in 3rd and fourth the system will over boost and struggle to hold the exact set level, often triggering the overboost cut and automatically adjusting its duty cycle settings - requiring regular resets.
when set like this it is fine up to levels of about 1 bar, however over 1 bar it does not control very well or at all.
My fault.
I have tried celicamads boost controller and I can vouch for its performance advantages. It brought the boost on measurably quicker and hence improved performace considerably.
even at stock boost levels this system is of great benefit.
At the time I was saving for some more important mods (intercooler, fuel pump, clutch etc). All done now
so i will be back for some testing as the new gear should make even better use of the advantages it offers.
matt
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Sat, 30 August 2003 07:00
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I agree with wastegate... I struggle to see how you can claim that your magical boost controller will solve his problem.
If he is running the stock hose from the stock boost source (compressor housing) directly to the wastegate, in a completely factory setup.. there is no way that you can, with a boost controller, make the wastegate open any more.
It's just not possible.
I would be grateful if anyone could explain to me how this will work - because there is no way to reduce the boost below the factory wastegate setting.
And yes the wastegates have been checked and they are not jammed or sticky.
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Sun, 31 August 2003 00:33
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7m-brisbane
ill quote myself
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however in your case the big increase in flow has found the limit to factory wastegate. even with no controller in place boost is high .( you already know this).no controller can lower the boost more than this
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i certainly dont claim my controller can reduce the boost lower than no controller at all
my original post was
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boost controll is EASILLY fixed my controller will controll the overboost issues( tried and proven) .YO-JIMBO get your arse over my place and ill fit one to your car .we have already proven it works better than the hks electronic controller
The reason the elctronic cant controll boost is because of the way it controlls boost .daves gt4 had the same problem it now holds the same boost (any boost) in all gears .
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i have NEVER claimed my controller will fix (wastegate's )problem
try reading what i posted before you get all shirty
how exactly did you test the wastegate ???? at what psi where they fully open .
im not trying to argue here just help .
My rear wastegate actuator was leaking .causing the rear turbo to overboost .power was way way down .0-100 times where back up into the high 5 sec .
boost was set at 16 psi . i replaced the rear actuator and boost fell to 12 psi (with no changes to the boost controller) .i reset the ecu and wound boost up to 16 psi .problem solved 4.69 0-100.with the 6mm bleed valve fitted boost higher in 3rd than other gears .fitted 8mm valve all is good
daves gt4 had similar probs and had an earlier boost controller(of mine) fitted .in 4th gear on a long hill boost went up from 17 to off the gauge .why? the flow limit of the 6mm bleed valve had been reached .we fitted an 8mm valve and it holds exact same boost in all gears
Yo- jimbo yeah matt bring the supra up one day and we will fit the controller .im sure it will fix your prob .however i think andy has a different issue .probably an actuator .(but ive been telling him that for months now)
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Location:
UK
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Sun, 31 August 2003 11:42
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| celicamad wrote on Fri, 29 August 2003 14:52 |
the hybrids may well flow much more than this but they would be the first pair ive ever seen do it .the last set of Good hybrids i saw made 1.4 bar( no controller) and ran 92 % duty cycle .by slightly retarding the timing ( at the crank angle ).They where able to keeep boost at 1.2- 1.3 bar and 86% duty cycle .
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Im not sure if youre on about mine or not there.. anyway.. the builder says they will provide 2bar.. hard to believe i guess on such a small housing so im not sure if they would..but apparently they have been tested at that pressure (on the test bed, i guess on an engine the story is entirely different). Interesting stuff though.
Its annoying to think i may never be able to remove the Y pipe without additional wastegate mods.. however i think i'll def be ordering one of your controllers at some point as youve convinced me it may help my spoolup time (which at the moment is really bad... and i cant make ANY positive boost below 2400 either)
Cheers
adi
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Location:
newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
UK
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Found Flow Limit on 1JZ Turbos
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Mon, 01 September 2003 11:00
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hmm i hadnt thought of using an extrenal wastegate.. certainly an option. Cheers for that !
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Yeah that'll learn me to pay more attention to either my work or the car stuff I do while at work (shhh .. don't tell anyone in the office).
