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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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 3sGTE Rebuild
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Thu, 28 August 2003 23:10
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Just got some baaaaad new from the mechanic, a leak-down test shows losses of 55%,10%,14%,30% on cylinders 1,2,3,4 respectively. He thinks that i will be up for a total rebuild and said i wouldn't get much change from $6500 to rebuild the 3sgte (using genuine Toyota parts)!!!
My question is:
Is there anyone in Canberra or Sydney who can either,match that price and get more than stock output from the engine, or someone who can rebuild it to stock for less?
Anyone who has had to do similar i would like to hear from you.
Chris
1991 gt4 grpA
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 01:28
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Christ.. $6500?
You might want to try a low km jap import motor.
I just bought a Gen2 (same as yours) 3S-GTE complete motor (no turbo and no alternator) for $700.
I'd get one of these, do a mild rebuild (belts, rings, gaskets, honing etc) and get your mech to put it in. You may as well do the clutch at the same time.
I'd say it would cost you $3500 MAX including engine purchase.
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Location:
Wahroonga
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 01:49
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I would have to agree with spectral. But i would say go the gen 3. The price $3500 max i would have to agree, when i blew my old 3sge they(my mechs) said it would be $2k for the engine and the install.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 01:51
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problem with the Gen3, is that they don't have TVIS, so you'll need to do some trickery with the ECU, they also use a MAP sensor instead of an AFM. More hassles there.
Plus the throttle bodies are different, so you may have problems using the standard intercooler.
Also they use the CT20B turbo, which the standard ST185 dump pipe won't bolt to.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 02:10
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That price is about right for a full rebuild including removal and install, anyone who does it cheaper either isn't doing all the work or hasn't quoted for the full job.
If you aren't looking for big hp (over 400) then a jap import makes the most sense. A 185 engine can be had for under $1500 and a whole half cut for not much over 2K. The 205 GenIII's are a little harder to find at the right price but they are out there, same for halfcuts.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 02:17
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Justen, How much did it cost to get the genIII into yours? and is worth the extra cost over the genII?
and who did it?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 03:24
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I did the spanner work and Mos did the wiring with much coaxing from me  We did the 205 ECU as well because running the 205 on the 185 ECU isn't a good idea.
Cost is highly variable. I bought a half cut and pretty well covered my costs by selling what i didn't use. For me the xtra effort for the Gen III was well worth it. May not always be the case though.
For a mild tune engine (up to 400hp) then a GenIII is the way to go i reckon as you get more, more easily. Once you start replacing internals then the choice is 6 of one.....
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 04:18
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I learnt one thing tinkering on my old gemini, that was that I am not a good enough mechanic to bother and try this one!!
I think I might stick with the genII. We were talking about using stuff like forged pistons etc, which (I am told) will make it more reliable when I up the boost...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 04:24
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Chris,
I'm in Canberra as well..white GrpA with 17 Oz racing wheels. Drop me a line and maybe i can help you out with your proj. Is you car at Bate's?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 04:36
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Justen,
Yeah that would be great, pretty tied up for the next week tho.
Yeah mine was the white GrpA with 17 TRD/Rays eng wheels at Bate's the last couple of days. Got it home now, but Mark from NBA rekons I should avoid driving it as much as possible, and with no boost when I do 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 04:39
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I have seen you around, I think you drove past me on canberra avenue bout a week ago...
I also sent you a random email almost 2 years ago when I was lookin for a car, but you weren't at all interested, not that I blame you...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 04:56
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I went thru school with Mark, he's a good guy.
I usually am spotted driving past someone
Hmmm can't recall that email. I usually try and help out but it's a busy world these days, not enough time for my own projects
Anyways, the invite stands. If you want to drop by drop me an email off line and we'll try and arrange something. The RWD 3SGTE won't be in the garage for much longer but the new GT25 setup i have on the GT4 is worth a look.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 05:49
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Yeah he is a good bloke, always gives good advice...
past as in opposite directions, if you were over taking I would have made an effort to keep up
You did reply, you just didn't want to sell your car, understandably.
Do you know how many grpA's are floating round canberra?
I'll drop you a line next week...
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 06:02
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ah gotcha.
Not many GrpA's in Canberra i know of. There are 2 black ones, 2 red ones and 2 other white ones other than mine...i assume one of them is yours. I only know Greg who drives one of the black ones. Not surprising with only 150 kicking around. Mine is 147, what one did you manage to pick up?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 06:49
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I got 116
there are at least 4 white ones, including you and me, and two others with stock wheels (one has a huge sticker on the back). There are always 2 black ones at lynham indoor sports on sundays, and there is at least one blue/green one going round...
with the 2 red ones there are at least 9, which is quite a few for such a small city!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 06:54
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Considering most were snapped up for rallying that is a high proportion for a small city. I'd be surpised if there were many more than 50 still kicking around the whole of Oz?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 08:47
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looking at this thread with interest
What sort of prices have people seen for the likes of forgies , rings , a freshen up and a bit of head work ?
My 3sgte may need a little " maintainance " done to it soon - its not blowing oil - or any bad thing - Im guessing it just needs a few bits that wear replaced and or strengthened ..
ite either that or sourcing a group A 185 long block
( bottom end and head )and putting the st185 inlet manifold/ exhaust manifold , turbo etc etc and wiring on ( is this possible? ) and the standard air to air intercooling ..
Im guessing seeing thugh it uses the st185 ecu - and afm , and intercooling - no major tweaks should be needed ?
Enlighten me guys ..
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 29 August 2003 13:47
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I have just rebuilt my 3SGTE , I don't know where the $6500 come from but it seams a bit steep , Here are a couple of prices for parts :
4 Genuine ST205 pistons $372 , Genuine ST205 multi layer steel head gasket $96 , Set of perfect seal gapless rings $167 , B/E bearings , M bearings , Thrust set about $110 , I reused the inlet and exhaust gaskets but add about $50 to cover them , thermostat $25 , oil $20 , Genuine oil filter $ 15 , Timing belt $40 , I used standard size pistons in mine so I didn't get a rebore but about $190 should cover that , The cranks are very good on these motors so it shouldn't need regrinding , Front and rear crank seals $30 , Reconditioned head $300 > $500 , Spark plugs $18 , Welsh plugs $18 , Probably forgot a few little things but that comes to $1650 + Labor to build the motor about $800 = $2451 So they must be charging about $4000 to remove and replace the motor . I would recommend getting a couple more prices from other motor builders .
Trevor
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Sat, 30 August 2003 03:53
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Trevor ..
So your running 25+psi boost - on standard 205 pistons ? Are they forged or normal ?
Im not planning on making mine a total insane thing to drive - aiming at about 185kw at the wheels , as the limit of the power output.
Would something like your motor handle this kind of power to the ground in a Gt4 ? The price youve estimated for the rebuild sounds pretty good !
I understand labour could make up for a large chunk - but 4K - hell - thats way too much IMHO
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Sat, 30 August 2003 13:36
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Stuart
I have put out 260 RWKW ( 350HP ) on 23psi at 6500 rpm , At lower revs the boost spikes to over 30psi and drops back to 23psi , This has been my every day boost level for the last 2 years up until my rebuild a couple of week ago , My motor is a ST165 and have been using standard 165 pistons I have now put some 205 pistons in as they have stronger ring lands , I don't know weather the standard 3SGTE pistons are forged or not but they have proved to be very strong as the pistons I pulled out when I did the rebuild are still in good condition so the standard pistons can handle 185 rwkw easily .
Trevor
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Sun, 31 August 2003 02:14
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thanks for the advice trevor - that might save a few $$'s on the overall rebuild costs .
Im actually very impressed with my motor - nearly 210 thousand kilometers - running 14 psi daily - and it doesnt even Hint at puffing smoke ..
By now i would have thought the rings would have started to show signs of wear to some extent - unless the previous owners to me - treated the Gt4 well
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Sun, 31 August 2003 22:52
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Classique:
Not sure on the breakdown yet, but my account will be itemised - I will let you know in 6-8 weeks!
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Sun, 31 August 2003 23:04
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if ur going to buold back to stock and spend that much ur nuts get a gen 2 motor for 2200 at the most or get a gen 3 for 5500 being a full half cut....
i rebuild mine its far from standard but did it at 8000$$$ its build bullet proof now (also knew the person well and got parts cheap) but i can tell u im very happy has plenty of potental now.... just need a big turbo then watch out
have fun
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Sun, 31 August 2003 23:17
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Mr. 2
The problem with half cut's is that you have no garuntee that what you are getting is beeter than what you have got. I know two people who picked up halfies and got engines worse than what they already had, it is not a bargain if you buy crap!
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Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Mon, 01 September 2003 01:32
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Hi everyone, this is a quote I have recieved for some bulletproof bottom end parts. Just finalising postage, but suspect it will cost around $1700 posted.
The details are:
Sport Compact JE Pistons & Eagle "H" beam Connecting Rods Toyota 3sgte
ITEM DESCRIPTION:
Dome requires no deburring or preparation.
Forged from Premium aluminum alloy.
CNC Machined side relief with lower support band provides optimal strength for extreme horsepower applications.
CNC Diamond turned skirts with reduced cylinder contact profiles provide less friction for increased horse power
Forced Pin Oiler for increased wrist pin lubrication.
Pin fitting, pin oilers and wire locks inclued
Rings included.
BORE :.020"
COMP.RATIO: 9.0:1
COMBO
ITEM DESCRIPTION:-1.889 crank pin/ .865piston pin/ 1.055 b.e. width
Every rod is magnafluxed, X-rayed, and ultrasonic tested to ensure the best quality.
All surface are CNC machined with 356 processing, shot peened, and stress relieved.
Big and small ends are crossground by Sunnen Power Stroke Honing machine.
Weight control within 2 grams in a set.
ARP 8740 cap screws are specially designed and made in USA for stroke application.
A18 bronze wrist pin bushings are made to withstand high impact forces.
A third hole is drilled at the top of the small end to bleed air in the aerated lube system.
Premium grade Moly base assembly lubricant is packed in every set.
5.428 3sgte stock length CRS5428T3D 530
Not a bad upgrade at all. Nice and bulletproof as well!
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Mon, 01 September 2003 04:19
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this is almost true dpends again where u go sss claim to drive all their cars before cutting them surly they dont buy crap also they will give u a warrenty not sure days / months??? also check them out do comp tests etc just the normal tests.... i have brough half cuts before i also have had many mates that have done this and so far its been nothing but smiles all round.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Tue, 02 September 2003 02:15
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I agree half cuts are good -IF- you have some kind of mechanical ability, which i do not!! If you have the ability to put it in the shed and rebuild yourself, then it would be ideal, for me however I would end up with two stuffed engines, or having to pay to get the second rebuilt anyways.
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 12 December 2003 00:17
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do toyota 3sgte pistons come in oversize?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 12 December 2003 00:19
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Yup, from memory they do a 0.5mm and a 1mm oversize piston. You can also swap up to the ST205 piston and lower your comp ratio to safely run more boost.
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 12 December 2003 01:21
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ok sweet
just what i wanted to hear
how much power will the stock pistons take?
thanks
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 12 December 2003 01:26
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That's a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question there Josh, but rule of thumb for street use - they should easily handle 400hp if your tuning is spot on. They aren't forged though so they won't like lean mixture or any detonation.
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Fri, 12 December 2003 02:09
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yeah true
well 400hp should be enough for now i think
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Sat, 13 December 2003 07:59
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what toyota place would u recommend getting them from?
are some places cheaper than others?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3sGTE Rebuild
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Sat, 13 December 2003 09:14
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just a ote for the guys planning to do the stuff around the 3sgte rebuild
Dumpy and midpipe from aussie exhausts cost me about 1100 all up to purchase , and about 350 to install.. Dont try this at home kiddies if you dont know what your doing !
The w To a Intercooler adaptor - if you choose to put it on the st185 motor cost me 40 dollars to purchase and post .
The st185 group A w to A intercooler Setup - Will be costing me about 500-600 all up to purchase .. Adelaide jap dismantlers are trying tog et more in for us - if interested ( they have to turn up first ! )For my rebuild im going to be using some forgies that ive tracked down ( you know who ! ) and ill be looking into the gapless rings to see if they suit ..
outside of the forgy swap - the rest of the short motor will just be refreshed with new seals and bearings + a TRD headgasket
The head ill probably have port matched - if possible - and cleaned up a little + I might look into some warmer cams for ti too ..
ECU ill be using will be the St185 WolfEMS unit being developed at the moment - mines going to be the tuning bed for this so ill let you giys know how it goes .. it swaps the setup to Map instead of AFM , and isnt a piggyback - its a swapover standalone that uses the existing loom + other sensors ..
Dunno how this will go but it should achieve what i want - ie a around 185 - 200 AWKW
Turbo highflow looks to be about $1100 thats also being looked at
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