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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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4agte questions
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Fri, 05 September 2003 08:46
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ok. this may have been asked already so please dont blow me up!
ive got a plan to turbo my corolla (91 sx)...
im gunna have about 5 grand to do it...
ive already got obviously a smallport 4age and a microtech mt8
i need
t28 turbo,bov, 4agze injectors, 8.9-1 gze pistons, engine overhaul kit, small factory intercooler (rx7, supra?, not sure), custom exhaust manifold and intercooler piping...
the way i figure it, it shuold cost something like this...
turbo~ $600
injectors~ $350
pistons~ $400
overhaul kit~ $390
bov~ $200
cooler~ $500
manifold and piping~ $800-1500 depending on who you know...
that leaves between $1760 and 1060 for labour.
i can wire the microtech
I NEED CONNECTIONS! i dont know any mechanics or exhaust dudes which sucks! but thats what i need to get it done for that price..
any help or advice is very welcome, and any more ideas to improve my plan would be great...
cheers
dave
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Fri, 05 September 2003 09:38
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Save more $$$ and do it properly
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Fri, 05 September 2003 09:51
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Save more $$$ and do it properly
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care to elaborate, Charlie?
NVD05X:
Sounds like you have just about the right recipe. Personally, i'd go for just buying a 4AGZE motor minus supercharger & go from there. If you're planning on spending $350 on injectors plus $400 on pistons, you might as well buy the whole lot for around $600-$700. Its rare that a 4AGZE from an importer requires rebuilding, they are a pretty tough little nugget 
I'm sure someone in your area from the club should be able to point you in the right direction. Despite what some might tell you, its not necessary to pay workshops top dollar for the same job that you can get elsewhere.
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sat, 06 September 2003 08:20
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thanks for your reply te72 turbo... i never looked at it that way... i might look into getting a map gze front cut and doing the whole turbo thing at a later date...
the reason i wanted to do it that way was because ive heard that you have to go through a heap of crap like telling the rta, insurance, police and whoever else when you change the engine number...
is this true?
what exactly do you have to do?
keeping in mind that i want the whole thing to be totally legal...
cheers
dave
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sun, 07 September 2003 00:54
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i might look into getting a map gze front cut and doing the whole turbo thing at a later date...
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nah, turbo it from the start! You wont regret it.... Just buy the motor minus the supercharger to save money.. 
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the reason i wanted to do it that way was because ive heard that you have to go through a heap of crap like telling the rta, insurance, police and whoever else when you change the engine number...
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If you decide to go with a turbo etc you will need to take it over rego again and get it engineered as well anyway... any insurance you have now will be thrown out the window once you start modifying your 4AGE to that extent.
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sun, 07 September 2003 08:30
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what about changing the supercharger to a sc14 and running it off the microtech?
what sort of power figures are obtainable?
i think i saw a gze in a ae82 at the last dyno day pulling 80 something kilowatts... i wanted at least 100 at the wheels.
do you think thats achievable with the standard sc and stock ems? i heard the map gze's can only be boosted to 11psi before they cut out.
cheers
dave
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sun, 07 September 2003 10:32
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So, do you want a turbo, or supercharger?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sun, 07 September 2003 13:22
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| NVD05X wrote on Sun, 07 September 2003 18:00 |
what about changing the supercharger to a sc14 and running it off the microtech?
what sort of power figures are obtainable?
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i pulled 100-110kw @ wheels on a given day with my 4agze. standard supercharger, standard i/c front mounted and microtech computer. this is thebest results ive seen in this trim so 100+ plus should be achieviable with the larger s/c.
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Mon, 08 September 2003 09:31
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well this is the question! ive heard that the sc12 will run out of puff at about 5500rpm so if the sc14 will supply reliable-non fading boost all the way to 6000rpm i guess that would be fine.
really all i want is non fading power all the way to 6 grand... if it pulls through all the gears to 6 id be on the way to some decent qtr mile times... i guess thats my main objective... to beat my bogan mates torana that pulls low 14's!
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Mon, 08 September 2003 12:41
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 after the mods to make the sc14 fit etc. and the power gain you may have, you would be much better of just going straight into a turbo conversion. better performance (overall) on tap and easily acquired.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Mon, 08 September 2003 15:36
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| feral4mr2 wrote on Mon, 08 September 2003 22:11 |
after the mods to make the sc14 fit etc. and the power gain you may have, you would be much better of just going straight into a turbo conversion. better performance (overall) on tap and easily acquired.
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i definitely agree with this statement. doing a conversion would end up costing you about the same with much better results. superchargers are fun but i got sick of mine and now going turbo instead
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Tue, 09 September 2003 10:22
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ok guys... ive gotta do something soon coz the ge just isnt gunna last much longer! ill see how the cash flow is after i find a front cut... after all, you cant do anything without the cash to do it right?!!!
it sucks having to pay heaps for the labour...
ill probably end up leaving the gze stock till i can afford the turbo setup...
im hoping to have it done by megacruise 2
i guess everyone will see how i went!!!
smoke = thrashed stocker!
no smoke = gze... woo-hoo!
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Tue, 09 September 2003 12:13
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mate if i were you, id treat the ge you got now good so it can last out will you do the rest. dont get a half cut and put it in, just buy the engine like stated before and go from there. you dont really need the extras the front cut offers but if you do get a half cut, still turbo it before you put it in. the extra cost and hassle of putting it in first then turboing it later aint worth it. also those costs you set out were pretty generous you could cut some costs there, however you ALWAYS run into other problems or things that need to be done so youll need money for those things.
and just so you know, my engine (map gze) makes 15psi, and thats with a big cooler and lots of piping and it doesnt drop off after 5000rpm however the belt sometimes slips after 5k rpm.
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Wed, 10 September 2003 08:42
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that sounds awesome,cant you tighten the belt or something?
just out of interest, have you run your car down the quarter at all? and what car is it in?
cheers
dave
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Thu, 11 September 2003 10:33
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yeah the belt is already pretty tight, i dont wanna go much tighter cause i dont wanna stuff bearings. ill prob just get a new belt and spray some belt grip on it and see if that works
its in a sprinter and i havent run it on the quarter, only just had it tuned this week
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sun, 14 September 2003 08:47
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dyno tuned? what power figure did you get at what engine speed?
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Tue, 16 September 2003 05:40
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not dyno tuned, road tuned so no power figures.
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Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Mon, 22 September 2003 08:15
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Anyone know a place in melbourne to get a turbo conversion done for my 4agze? like just to attach the big port inlet manifold, turbo, piping, etc. get it up and running basically. A victorian equivalent to Crossley Race Engineering 
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Mon, 22 September 2003 09:27
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woudnt you want the smallport inlet manifold?
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Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Mon, 09 February 2004 05:56
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go the belt grip! damn its noisy but haha
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Mon, 09 February 2004 21:37
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just thorw the turbo on your stock engine,
we did one the other week, made 186rwhp on 11psi boost and this was with a stock as a rock 86kw motor, bigger injectors, microtech LT8, small intercooler etc,
Dale
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Tue, 10 February 2004 05:59
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come speak to us in a couple of years time about that engine.
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Tue, 10 February 2004 08:38
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no problem,
the only reason it will blow up is cause of bad tuning or bad fuel,
if you have done the same and it blew up i would be looking at the tune........
my misses starlet is a stock ep91 na motor, been taking 15psi boost for 6 months now no problems at all
its all in the tune you ping it it will break. why is it so hard for people to understand that.....
dale
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Tue, 10 February 2004 12:09
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amen to that.
how many times have you herd of people blowing head gaskets, breaking pistons etc etc, and blaming the parts?
even good ol smokey yunik(sp?) talks abotu the deficiencies of tuning relating to Nascar motors. even tho every team has the best pistons money can buy, some ppl just keep breakign them, whereas other teams never break them....
tuning is the make or break of an engine in terms of power AND reliability...
it's hard for ppl because they are closed minded and think they know better... you know as i do that those people don't deserve your time or mine, paid or otherwise 
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Tue, 10 February 2004 13:08
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hear hear!
but you should know by now that it really cant work, cause my mate's cousin read on the internet somewhere that the 86kw 4AG motors dont suit turbo cause they got something with the conrods or something, or air filter, or maybe it was the radiator, either way, you just cant do it ok? But i'm gonna have a 400hp 4AGZE block with 20V head & TA45 turbo alright. Gonna rip the ass outta all uz cars 
seriously, we're pushing shit up hill here sometimes........
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Wed, 11 February 2004 06:05
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finally someone that understands what it is all about,
i made 463rwhp at summernats with the boost controller playing up on pump fuel with no problems at all, its all in the tune, no one has come with in 30hp of me, when they do i will go back and make more than 500+ on pump fuel, its all in the tune,
you can have the best motor in the world and a bad tune will break it,
so we will see whos motors are still running in a year and whos are broken, i bet mine are still running and people who skimp on ecu's and tuning (using stock ecus with bigger turbos and stufF) will be broken,
Dale
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Thu, 12 February 2004 07:59
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well i've got the gze in and i've got the custom exhaust manifold, turbo and dump pipe waiting to go...
im off to rigoli for a quote tomorow...
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Thu, 12 February 2004 21:15
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what do you need a quote for?? fitting all the stuff?
send me a email
dale@braidedlines.com
and tell me what you want done and i will give you a quote as well.
Dale
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sat, 14 February 2004 02:04
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ok ok i understand that the tuning of the engine is important, i would not run the boost i do with a stock ecu, but dont you have to worry about the stress on the conponents? for example if you reved your engine harder than it was desigined to, wouldnt the components become fatigued sooner even if the engine was not detonating? im not being closed minded, i want to understand as much as i can. but why would toyota build the 4agze with different internals to the 4age if the ge's internals could be used reliably on a boosted engine?
and with your 463rwphp engine, what engine is it? and do you run it with stock internals?
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sat, 14 February 2004 05:27
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detonation stresses the internals more than anything, with a good tune it will last for ever,
my motor is a 13b, stock mazda seals, ported and thats it, with all the usuall bolt ons (t66, LTX12, big fuel system etc)
Dale
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sat, 14 February 2004 07:08
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| EVOSTi wrote on Sat, 14 February 2004 13:04 |
but dont you have to worry about the stress on the conponents? for example if you reved your engine harder than it was desigined to, wouldnt the components become fatigued sooner even if the engine was not detonating?
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same applies to NA motors...as far as rpm goes the liniting factor is piston speed.. read http://dwolsten.tripod.com/articles/sep93a.html about that.
fatigue is not usually an issue within certain limits, but over-revving can cause cracking which drastically reduces component life.
with conrods, the worst loading they have is actually when the piston is on the way down on the intake stroke. in all other parts of an engine cycle, the rod is in compression.
with pistons, the worst loading will be the intake stroke, and the power stroke, but detonation, on both NA and FI motors will magnify the forces many times.
with good tuning, ie avoiding detonation and lean outs, you can get quite large power out of setups that are otherwise considered a poor choice. but poor tuning can kill the best and most expensive setup you can think of.
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sun, 15 February 2004 09:40
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that link mentions what the generally accepted limit for piston speed is, my question then is, how does this relate to stroke? because i was under the impression that engine stroke was what limited the revability of an engine (i spose this ties in with the speed of which the piston must travel to complete a longer stroke). is this right? and if so, how can they make larger capacity engines with longer strokes rev harder safely if not with stronger components? like with big block V8's and the like. i mean i know they are larger capacity becuase of the size of the bores but they have longer strokes too dont they? on most street V8's the redline is somewhere around 5000rpm yet some reace prepared engines can rev as high as 9000rpm. can you guys understand what im asking?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sun, 15 February 2004 10:27
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I know what you're saying evo. The new V8s in the Fords use a block derived from some of the Ford truck motors. I think the stroke is kept relatively unchanged for use in the Falcons(i.e. long) and hence the piston speeds are extremely high. This is why the Ford V8s are rev limited to I think 6000rpm, even though they now have quad cam, 4 valves per cylinder and the like. I'm not sure what they do to get 8 and 9000rpm out of them when racing.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Sun, 15 February 2004 10:38
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you can estimate piston speed by the rotational speed of the crank at a distance of stroke/2 from the centreline. it will be slightly different based on rod lengths and angles, but it's a good rough start.
what do they do?? hmm lets see... the pistons alone are worth more than your car. the rods are worth more than your car
it's a fine balance between component weight and strength. higher strength with lower weight means you can have higher piston speed.
although the practical limits are based on pston speed, metallurgy plays a huge part and most components are not exactly optimum.
do a few calculations for yourself and see what piston sppeed would be for different motors..
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
parra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Thu, 19 February 2004 09:47
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still goin ahead with getting all the parts i need but i've encounterd a problem.
fault code 13
faulty crank angle sensor
anyone got one?
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 4agte questions
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Thu, 26 February 2004 14:21
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| 10sec_rx7 wrote on Tue, 10 February 2004 08:37 |
just thorw the turbo on your stock engine,
we did one the other week, made 186rwhp on 11psi boost and this was with a stock as a rock 86kw motor, bigger injectors, microtech LT8, small intercooler etc,
Dale
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What turbo was used Dale? do you remember?
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