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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 02:56
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<------- What is your opinion of thses doors?
A mate I used to work with did this to his old Plymoth
and i always wondered what they'd look like on an RA28
the hinge design he cane up with is very adaptable to the celica doors.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:07
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They don't look to bad on the RA28 but my Ta22 with them would look like a retarded bird
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:08
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Yes would definatly look BETTER on a liftback
I did say better 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:09
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not sure if its ricey but its a definite waste of time and money...
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:15
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TECH ARTICLE! TECH ARTICLE! 
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:19
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I love them. As for what Rob said, so are a lot of other "performance mods" If you like that sort of thing and have the ability and resources I say go for it. At least then you will have a car that is truely individual (bar maybe one other  ) I would much rather do something like that than whack on a **insert brand name here** body kit that looks exactly the same as the next hyundai.
On the other side of the coin, there is a heap of work there and I don't thing there is enough strength on the celica pillers to support a door like that. You would need some hefty reinforcing to make it work.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:20
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Would be intreting to see the engineering involved though. It would only look ok on a 28 not on a coupe.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:25
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I like it.
Anthony: We're ALL individuals here at toymods. 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:26
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yeah, liftback only. It would probably add alot more weight to the door as well. I wouldn't mind seeing a gullwing celica ala the veilside gullwing supra
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:34
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not bad but would suck in a low carpark
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:37
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would sux in any car park you be clokin grandmas in the head leaving nice vertical scratches on cars. 
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:40
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Pete, I think the term is "special"
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:51
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| Quote: |
On the other side of the coin, there is a heap of work there and I don't thing there is enough strength on the celica pillers to support a door like that. You would need some hefty reinforcing to make it work.
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Not really. the standard hinges on any car door that opens outwards have the maximum lever arm that can be achived.
lifting (scissoring) the door reduces the moment in the pillar,therfore the pillar is fine as long as the pivot point in both the X and Y direction are very close to each other and to the original hinges X position. the problem then is the rotation of the door once open about the Z axis (ie wind blowing into it)
The design of the hinge is based on the standard locations of the hinges and bolt hole locations the both the door and pillar.
making it almost a bolt on modification. the only real weakness is the door itself in relation to the door pivoting about the bolt point which the door wouldn't otherwise be subject to.
The time spent designing (on paper and on CAD) reduces the trial and error stage which is where we nearly gave up!
The hinge itself weighed about 7kg (8mm thick plate!)
and the fabrcation time was about 100 hour per hinge (4 total, 3 trial and error 1 that worked)
the hardest part was comming up with a way of making the window come down when you pull on the door handle (aka convertable Merc)
so to clear the pillar from the glass.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 03:54
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The doors open within half the arc of a conventional door (closer to 1/3)
I think I'd set the windows to wind down when opening the door and close when closing the door this would give more head room.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:00
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Put the windows down on the alarm turn off, then you can open the doors without having to wait for the windows. Then put the windows up with alarm turn on.
Or get a Targa topped supra and always have the targa off. Oooh, or have a targa top supra that the roof folds UP so when you pull the handle it releases the window from the roof by hinging up.
Would require a lot more than bolt-on work though.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:01
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Another idea:
Have the targa roof fold up and the window roll down. And WELD the door closed. ... Will think more on this one.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:04
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*starts whistling the dukes of hazard theme song*
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:06
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HKSPete... you've been watching too much Dukes of hazard... whilst drinking 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:21
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Havn't seen it for ages. They should bring it back
... Just thinking, with welded doors, how do you get people in the back? told you I had to think more on it.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:26
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they manage it in f&f - when vince gets rescued off the truck, jumps into the aerotop at 100km/hr+, and then slips easily into the back seat.
and of course, f&f is always right
I might point out I've been in the back of a mkiv on more than one occasion, and if anyone other than a midget is in the front seat, an average height person (like myself) has his knees around his ears. that vince guy looks to be at least 6'2".
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:28
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... Just thinking, with welded doors, how do you get people in the back? told you I had to think more on it.
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OOOH... make the liftback hinge from the back and passengers
can jump in roadster style...
or
just get rid if the rear seats
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:30
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In my old 924T my brother sat in the back seat, with the sunroof off his head came through the roof up to his chin. And that was sitting firmly in the seat. He's only 6ft.
I once drove from mittagong to my place (1hr) with a mate in the back. Nearly killed the poor bugger, had to have his legs crossed and his head on a slant.
I loved that car to death luckily it was its death, not mine.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 04:31
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| Lambolica wrote on Wed, 24 September 2003 14:28 |
OOOH... make the liftback hinge from the back and passengers
can jump in roadster style...
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They wouldn't even need to jump in, you can scoop them up driving past! 
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 06:22
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So are you saying that you use both the existing upper lower hinge locations and still manage to get it to swing up like that???
Do you have any photo's of this set up, I am intrigued as to how this might work. I can follow your logic if the hinge locations are in the original locations, I am not so sure how you would achieve it though. I think I know why your hinge was so heavy.....
If gullwing doors on a TA22/23 don't take your fancy, why not look into an electric hard-top like the new Lexus coupe has. Hmmmm wouldn't that pull the chicks.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 08:37
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It is my dream to do this to a 90' GT4 and it will happen one day.
Just a week ago I had the chance to go and sit inside a lamborghini contach as of course i jumped at the opportunity. I must say the door are quite difficult to get around but then again, any car as flat as the contach is never going to be easy to get into.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 23:06
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And if you're 6'4 It's not comfortable to sit in one (no leg, foot room) but that doesn't stop it being No.1 on my dream cars list.
I had the chance to sit in a dodge Viper GT, now that is a vehicle I'd be scared to put the hammer down in!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Wed, 24 September 2003 23:54
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| Lambolica wrote on Thu, 25 September 2003 09:06 |
And if you're 6'4 It's not comfortable to sit in one (no leg, foot room) but that doesn't stop it being No.1 on my dream cars list.
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Lambo's are built for the person. You'd need to get one built for you. They actually measure you up like a tailored suit.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 00:02
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Yes I'd like a 1989 Lamboghini Countach 25th anniversary Edition
built to suit my big ass feet.
The one I sat in wasn't too bad for sitting in (as the owner was Tall) but my two feet cover all three pedals and there seemed to be very little room to widen the foot well area. unless this is costom made as well from factory.
I wonder how much it would cost to get a second hand Countach re-built to suit me.
Diablos seem to have more room there
vipers are a little short for foot space as well
Still doesn't Knock it off No. 1 
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 00:05
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Either that or put scissor doors on the 28 and try to shoe horn a V12 in....
...and maybe a turbo or 2...
...and a kenworth diff...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 00:08
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| Lambolica wrote on Thu, 25 September 2003 10:02 |
I'd like a 1989 Lamboghini Countach 25th anniversary Edition
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You mean like this one?
http://www.vss.com.au/supra/lambosupra.html
Dave (owns the lambo) was saying the other day that he's doing a few weddings (driving the groom in) and has also done some year 12 formal's by driving the guy (stag - can only fit 1 passenger). At a price of course
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 00:15
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They would be fun in the carpark.........
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 00:17
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I just had a look at that site you put up, very cool set up. Maybe it not too hard.
If you get keen to do one on an RA28, I am happy to help with any design/stress analysis if you need it. I enjoy doing that type of thing. A bit more interesting than whacking repair doublers on corroded aircraft anyway.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 00:19
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Very similar.
I don't think this is a 25th anniv. altho it looks like it has the badging.
It Has the 25th Wheels
but lacks the 25th bonnet, skirt intake, and overhead intake.
(unless Aust. got a different varient like the U.S)
I've seen him toying with a tesstorossa(sp) on old windsor rd one night. I've never felt so intimidated in a car!
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 01:23
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I have AutoCAD, but all the stress analysis would be done using "classical stress analysis" techniques, ie pencil and paper. 3D Cad would be nice for that kind of thing, even better if you have the "simply motion" plug in for it.
I have seen enough FEA programs to know that you still need to use your brain and pencil and paper to make them work.
A good band saw should be able to cut through 8mm plate given time and plenty of lubrication. Laser cutting is the go if your happy to spend the money.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 02:01
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A link to the "simply motion" plug-in would be cool to check out.
makes it alot easyier than trying to rotate about 2 axis's.
I'll have to check out the cost of a hack saw type band blade for a band saw.Thanks never thourght of that. about a million little things I've been planning just took 1 big step closer to realality!
the last time I was involved in this type of thing we did the pencil and paper approch and It took ages to get somthing even remotly close to somthing that would work in a car. Surfing the net came up with a few good ideas that we then used but we still made timber models (of door and pillar and hinge) to find the weak areas before fabricating metal ones and fine tuning.
Using CAD would fine tune things alot quicker and also provide templates to transfer to steel plate.
Try this...disregard the link to the celica page and try to come up with a solution. A guarenteed way to waste several hours/days
and send you to a mental home faster...
A good engineer always uses their brain on a project
pity there is only one good engineer where I work!
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 04:13
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This is the software company that does the simply motion package. I have seen it in action and it is a very trick bit of gear. I haven't used it though.
http://www.dynamicdesignermotion.com/md/simply/
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 04:44
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mmmmm...I've got a boner.
I'm Sad 
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 05:25
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Where are you working / what are you doing?
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 05:59
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Concord Road, North Strathfield / Structural shitkicker...err Drafty
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 06:05
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Drafty hey, I guess thats why you got all excited about the simply motion stuff
I'm at Richmond RAAF base telling other people how to fix planes.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 06:20
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Tell them flyboys to quit making a racket over Kellyville
Yes a Drafty...the lowest form of life in an engineering office
I spend most of my day telling the engineers here why a concrete beam can't go thru a stair well. Some of these guys lack logic. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 09:39
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diablos are definitly the go.
faster, corner better, sexier - and most importantly more room & visability!
the "thing" on the boot of the countach means they might as well have not installed the rear window
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 11:29
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no way.
id have a countach any day, much prettier
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Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Thu, 25 September 2003 23:46
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Ahh ... ok. My BS meter just blew up.
I wish somone could fit other seats in a contach, the seats that are in it have 5mm of padding. Not really built for long rides.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Fri, 26 September 2003 00:08
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Why does it not surprise me that a MA61 driver prefers a contach over a diablo.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Fri, 26 September 2003 00:14
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Err... Did someone say Murcielago? Or even Gallardo?
Yummy....
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Fri, 26 September 2003 00:24
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or Miura......DROOOOOOOOOLLLLLLL.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Fri, 26 September 2003 01:07
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...Or Silhouette or Jalpa or Islero or Espada or.......
Any one will do, As long as it's a V12
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Fri, 26 September 2003 01:35
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Ravioli, Spaghetti, Fettucini.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Fri, 26 September 2003 03:46
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I'm sorry did someone say sex on wheels
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Fri, 26 September 2003 09:25
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 ooohhh yeah baby, Contach all the way..
but then i would have any Lambo pointed in my direction.
yeah Lambolica, i like em!!
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Sun, 28 September 2003 22:54
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The Miura looks like an RA28 on steroids
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Mon, 29 September 2003 02:28
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Download the Koenigsegg video and check out those doors in action. As they pivot up they move out from the body...is there anything that car can't do?
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Mon, 29 September 2003 03:38
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Yes...Proudly wear a Toyota Badge
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Butterfly/Scissor doors
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Mon, 29 September 2003 09:43
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 29 September 2003 12:28 |
Download the Koenigsegg video and check out those doors in action. As they pivot up they move out from the body...is there anything that car can't do?
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yeah i saw that video from top gear today.. looks droolsome!
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Registered:
March 2003
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