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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
September 2002
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4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 02 October 2003 01:10
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I would like to know if you can put standard 4agze pistons straight into a standard 4age block. Are they the same size or not?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 02 October 2003 01:20
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yep, same size, as long as you don't put them into a Bluetop as they have different size gugeon pins. otherwise, will fit
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 02 October 2003 01:50
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y bother just get forgies wouldnt bother with ze pistons plus how hard would it b to get just a ze block? not worth the trouble. ZE pistons arnt forged anyways some ppl say semi forged wtf is that cant have a semi forged pistion from what i have been told.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 02 October 2003 03:05
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y bother? because they are cheap ($340 set of 4), come in two compression ratio options, and are damn strong thats why.
But if wasting money is your preference, go ahead and spend $1k+ on a set of forgies.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 02 October 2003 08:18
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 FLYNSX, next time you can get your hands on a gze piston, turn it upside down and have a look at the finish.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Mon, 06 October 2003 11:29
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I just got myself a set of late model gze pistons, man they look nice....
Ive got a bigport but its the 7rib block, so from what ive heard it should have the bigger gugeon pin.
Im planning on turboing so my question is how do the other internals compare eg. crank and con-rods?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Mon, 06 October 2003 12:05
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Yer well iam doing a turbo conversion at the end of the yr with my ze engine with a 20v head. I tell you what i wont b using ze pistons in it that for sure you get what you pay for. So any1 that wants mine can have them for free one catch have to drive to newcastle to get them.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Mon, 06 October 2003 12:12
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hahahaha 
Make sure you get the full Motec exhaust too 
You must have mucho $$$
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Mon, 06 October 2003 12:46
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well from the kind of power ive seen pumped out of the gze with standard pistons I think ill be happy with them 
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Mon, 06 October 2003 12:52
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flynsx do u think u well be going to jamboree next year
just asking coz i need someone to challenge
good luck with conversion
jess
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Tue, 07 October 2003 07:57
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oh yer i will b there with bells ringing. Autosalon mid may Sydney autosalon i should have the car there on the dyno riping some good figures.
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Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Tue, 07 October 2003 11:58
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| FLYNSX wrote on Mon, 06 October 2003 21:35 |
I tell you what i wont b using ze pistons in it that for sure you get what you pay for.
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I gotta say buddy, this is pretty naive. I believe the correct saying should be, "You get what Toyota pays for".
Think about it, Toyota would've put a few million dollars into developping the 4AGZE, designing and manufacturing an engine to meet or surpass one of the principal design briefs of the modern automobile - reliability in all conditions.
And for you to dismiss them as not up to the task after the mass of development, engineering and manufacturing by teams qualified sientisis/engineers shows either a true lack of understanding or just plain naievity.
Sure a set of aftermarket pistons may be just as good or maybe better, but why dismiss Toyota genuine ones so easily?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Tue, 07 October 2003 23:47
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well stated rex.
Blown20V - you have a PM. In future please use that feature if you wish to blast off at people.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Wed, 08 October 2003 12:14
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For the type of boost that iam going to run i know for a fact that the ze pistions wont hold up. My mate did a turbo conversion on his ZE and blew it sky hi on 17 pounds of boost. Not saying ze pistons r bad just saying not strong enuff for what i want to do. The engine has been a sik ass motor and coped a flogging from me, over the past 3 yrs the ZE bottom end ant going to hold up to 20 psi of boost that iam going to b running.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Wed, 08 October 2003 12:45
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i beg to differ actually... you would be rather suprised at how little boost ppl manage to break forged pistons, hell even without boost!!
what kill spistons is poor tuning and detonation. you may also be surprised to hear the a boosted motor is actually 'softer' on pistons than an NA motor, even tho it has higher forces involved.
it all depends on how you build it, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, how it is tuned... ppl have known for years that this is so... go and read "Smokey Yunicks Power Secrets". yes it is about old heavy V8's, but heavy V8's that pull 8000rpm all day pushing 6-700hp
he has a few things to say about ppl whinging about breaking ring lands 'cos the pistons are not strong enough' 
i think if you took the forged, ceramic coated GZE piston and an aftermarket forged piston and got it ceramic coated, AND you built and tuned the motor correctly for the combustion pressures you are expecting, that you will break other things long before you break the pistons...
anyhoo, a few things to think about
hey, i'll send ya postage money if you send me the GZE pistons so i can have snazzy paper weights  (seriously!!) oh, and i'd like to cut one up to see what the coating is like in an electron microscope 
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Wed, 08 October 2003 20:46
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here's an example of what sort of boost you can run with the early 8.0:1 GZE pistons... This guys running 30psi with them, its all about the tune...
http://www.turbocorolla.com/cars/hanw.asp
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 01:00
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stewart,
i too would be VERY interested with your findings if you were to inspect a GZE piston!
It certainly would dispell any myths and rumours about the type of piston they really are.
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Location:
North Brisbane
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 01:17
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Hi
I have a standard blue top 4age and a mate of mine gave me the crank-rods-pistons out of a standard 4agze, the pistons are forged, you can see the diffrent finishes. i was woundering if the whole lot would fit straight into the 4age??
thank you
dale...
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 02:03
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OMG that 4AG is insane!!! wonder how bad the lag is... but then agin, who cares! just a touch of nitrous to get it going (if it's only 75 shot, it prolly is for that) how clean is that install!!
| THE WITZL wrote on Thu, 09 October 2003 11:00 |
stewart,
i too would be VERY interested with your findings if you were to inspect a GZE piston!
It certainly would dispell any myths and rumours about the type of piston they really are.
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well, since i have 24hr access to metallographic equipment and electron microscopes, how about someone send me a broken GZE piston and i'll have a serious look at it..
i would probably cut it in half, see what the cross section thicknesses are,
polish and macro etch to see grain size (if it truly is forged, you will see the grains 'flow' around the piston)
dig some trenches with an FIB (focussed ion beam miller) to see the structure and thickness of the ceramic coating,
and maybe do some chemical analysis, see what is in the alloy and what ceramic they use for the coating (could do XRD for this too )
just don't tell my supervisor what i'm doing
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 02:09
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oh, and i forgot, microhardness testing as well.....
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 02:29
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here's some info gathered from the Toyspeed forums,
| Quote: |
4AGZE late AE92 & AE101
pistons- hyperteutic & ceramic coated
(better than cast, not a true forge system)
-beware tho! a proper forged piston was introduced before the
runout of ZE engines (very late 101)
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 02:34
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| FLYNSX wrote on Wed, 08 October 2003 22:14 |
My mate did a turbo conversion on his ZE and blew it sky hi on 17 pounds of boost..
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FLYNSX, can you get those busted ZE pistons from your friend for me to look at?? it will be worth the effort . i can tell you beyond doubt if they were forged or not. you'll even get pretty pictures
pm me.
Cya, Stewart
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 05:28
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Hey, at $80 a piston, why don't we just buy a new one?
I'd put in $20 to see a new one chopped up & inspected, any one else keen enough to put in?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 06:57
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good idea Big Worm....
it's pretty cheap to find out what's what... esp since i'll waive my normal consulting charges  ($300-400/hr) heh heh
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Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 08:45
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i have a 8.0:1 gze piston with some chunks missing.
i would gladly donate it to research.
you would do a full write-up on your findings?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 09:51
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I'll donate $20 to the fund also stewart, just so we can get a brand new late model GZE piston to analyse.
FeralMR2 - donate please
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 12:15
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| feral4mr2 wrote on Thu, 09 October 2003 18:45 |
i have a 8.0:1 gze piston with some chunks missing.
i would gladly donate it to research.
you would do a full write-up on your findings?
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coooool
definitely. proper report style. pictures, results etc..... can't do this soprt of thing half-assed.. might get a bit big tho, i might end up making it into pdf's to get the picture size down.... i reckon i could make a CD with high res pics for the contributors
i'm going to have a practice go with a piston i have and then see how it goes...
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 14:20
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| THE WITZL wrote on Thu, 02 October 2003 16:37 |
Dude, late model GZE pistons are forged and ceramic coated. And indeed they do cost a megre $390 a set! From Toyota.
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Hi guys, just wondering if anyone in the know has any idea how long Toyota will keep supplying these pistons in Australia at these prices? Hopefully..forever
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 21:12
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...until the supply in Japan runs out
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4agze pistons into a 4age block.
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Thu, 09 October 2003 21:36
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and when 4a-gze motors are becoming less common in Japan, i think chances are good
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