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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Welded Diffs
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Tue, 14 October 2003 23:29
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Im wondering about welded diffs for a Skid Pan/Drift day.
How do these go for drifting compared to normal LSD's, what are the characteristics?
What needs to be welded and any tips.
Anyone got a stuffed diff for a sprinter suited to this application they don't want anymore 
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 00:21
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yes they are good if you have some guts, and some power behind it.
I know a bloke with a series2 rx7 with s5 13Bt, and he would drift everywhere and it was hell easy to break traction..
You just get in there and weld some bits of steel in their to hold it all together..
An exhaust shop should do it for you for like $10  and show you how to do it when you wana do one yourself..
It can fuck your axles/driveline prett quick if you drive it hard tho....
LSD is much better.
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Location:
Rosanna, Melb
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 01:28
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Welding the diff is also the best mod you can do to an underpowered car to get it to drift alright. Redline and clutch dump will ensure that you get sideways in just about anything (3Ks excluded).
But it does stuff your rear end bushes fast and as said above, tends to eat axles too.
But for a drift day do it. MIG welding it is easiest, just take out your diff centre and weld the spider gears to each other and to the housing.
Enjoy
Hen
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 01:54
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Compared to a TRD LSD they SUCK. ive had both lockers and the LSD (have the TRD lsd now) and i can honestly say that the difference offered is amazing.
that said if u were doing a skidpan day. lock it up. anything is better then the single spinner.
they wont last, they are noisy, a PITA to drive and yeah
but they do help underpowered cars getting sideways 
| Ribbo wrote on Wed, 15 October 2003 09:29 |
Im wondering about welded diffs for a Skid Pan/Drift day.
How do these go for drifting compared to normal LSD's, what are the characteristics?
What needs to be welded and any tips.
Anyone got a stuffed diff for a sprinter suited to this application they don't want anymore
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 03:37
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Normal (quiet) driving is the worst thing you can do to a welded diff. Cruising around a bend is what stuffs the axles, thats why you don't use a welded diff in a street car.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 03:44
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I wouldn't recommend a welded diff unless you have ample power to break traction. Without the power, your car will understeer more, as the welded diff will want to push the car forward in a straight line (the angle of direction), which apparently is not what all you drift cowboys want is it???!   
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 04:17
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one clutch dump later solves that
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 06:02
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I don't plan on running it for general driving, just a drift/skid pan day.
Im pretty sure it will all be wet anyway, so shouldn't hurt drivetrain too much.
Would an hour drive out there and then back hurt much? as I don't plan on changing the diff out there hehe
Ive got access to a mig welder so it shouldn't be anyworries there.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 06:16
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Someone on this forum who may prefer to remain anonymus had the same idea and drove to Eastern Creek with a welded diff. Dropped it at the lights and busted an axle. My recommendation is if you are going to do it, take some tools and spares with you.
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 06:54
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I am no weolder but I know it is not as easy to do well as just welding all the spider gears.
The guy who did mine, heats the gears and surrounding metal first and welds solid bar steel in as well to make sure they dont break and are balanced !
It will be fine to drive to the track with a welded diff. I am driving mine to Tamworth (400 k's) fully loaded for a drift day this weekend.
U dont need much power to make a CIG locker perform, even stock gemini's can do circle work with one !!
You havent lived till you have had one for a while.
You'll go back to LSD eventually, but wont regret the locker.
Matt
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 10:44
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how would you make sure it is balanced?
how import would that be?
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 11:43
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fuck all important, this isnt a long term thing your talking about here, just get a mig and a coat hanger and knock yourself out
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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 11:50
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i have a spare diff sitting here, i might just go nuts
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 12:02
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If you plan to weld the centre up with out disassembling it, I recommend and use the following procedure:
1, place the diff flange down and clamp it to a welding table or similar, so the open centre faces the sky.
2, place a rage under the centre to catch slag from welding. Make sure the rag goes past the edges of the diff too.
3, Cut a piece of steel to sit in the "window" made by the four spider gears. This will be welded into the diff at a later stage. Only doing one side will be more than enough!
4, Fill the centre up with water! This will protect the bearings from the heat produced while welding, and the oil covering the parts will protect it for a short time from corrosion.
5, weld the spider gears where they meet each other on both sides. Once you have done this, check to see if the centre still spins around, if it doesn't - throw it away and start again!
6, place the "window" steel piece in and weld it to the spider gears. Check to see if the diff still spins, if not - throw it away and start again!
7, carefully remove the water and rag, taking all slag with it.
8, blow the centre out with compressed air to remove all the water, spray with CRC liberally if you don't plan on putting it back into the diff immediately.
9, install and let the understeer prevail!
This setup will be very detrimental to your front tyres too (due to it's pushing nature), use some old ones on the front as well as the back!
[Updated on: Thu, 16 October 2003 02:52]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 12:04
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Just to make clear, the rag goes through the centre, not underneath where you're working. Feed it through under the crownwheel and pull it out the other side.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 13:06
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thanx heaps for that
exactly what I wanted to know
well it should be wet so tyre wear shouldn't be too great, though I will have a spare set for the back
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 14:25
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the T-Series center on the right is welded if you look closely, (killed 2 T series via normal driven' and one was my own application of too much 5m power  )
if its a long drive the "correct" way is to slide the axles in, clamp timber to the bottom/side hole of the center and fill with melted lead and let it set this way there is no weld to come off and kill your ring and pinion gear a long way from home
Allan
T Series Vs 5M
T Series -2
5M 1
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Wed, 15 October 2003 14:36
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haha welded diffs are fun!
A friend with a gemini (stock) filled the centre with HQ wheel nuts then empied 6 welding rods into a molten mess..
Worked well (for about 5 minutes) then bang..
no probs though, he just made another (true about stock gems doing good circle work with locker)
Have yet to change a celica diff (although i can see the time coming shorty) but i was thinking along the lines of drilling holes through the spider gears and putting a pin through them to connect to the diff carrier. That way it would be simple, neat, balanced, and strong. (no dodgy welds to break)
Not sure if it's possible though cause i havn't seen what a toy diff looks like yet..
Have a locker in a kingswood, very very fun, Basiclly will chew tires out (front and rear) going round corners makes a eee eee eee eee eee noise (VERY noticable) and all it takes is a slight tap of the throttle and your looking at the guttter, then the other gutter, then yeah..
Parking is hard in a kingswood, but when youve got a locker, you've gotta allow for extra understeer (even at 5km/h)
BUT then again U turns are soooooooo much easier...
In the wet, i've driven one at over 110km/h for 165km trips, and no problems.. You've only got to worry about how far you turn the wheel at a given time..
for example, if your on the freeway, and their's a long sweeping bend, you probably turn the wheel about half a turn right? with a locker no problem...
Half a turn at 5km/h is shit all, when parking you might pull 3 turns to turn into a spot etc, so thats when you'll see the eee ee ee effects of the locker diff.. So lockers are ok as long as you don't turn the wheel too much, and if you adjust your driving style to suit is really good..
and becuase you know IF you get wheel spin, it's BOTH wheel spin, it makes the car more predicable and thus safer.. Like going into a corner in the wet in an open diff, you have to allow for if you'll get it to kick out, AND also if it does'nt kick out (single wheels) with a locker you only have to allow for it kicking out, cause that's all it can do.
If your trying to get a RWC and don't want to change your diff, just get an old axel, angle grind off the axel shaft, and put it back in, that way you wont squeak when you turn onto the hoist..
just don't let the rwc guy test drive it cause then it will steer like a tank (literally) (or MAJOR torque steer for a RWD car due to 1 wheel drive)
Benefits though: AWESOME takeoff tracktion, the car feels different, and more 'stable'.. and fun..
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Thu, 16 October 2003 02:58
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If you're trying to get a RWC, take the locker out! They test drive the cars over here, I'm sure they'll do the same over there too!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Thu, 16 October 2003 03:23
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hehe yea I only plan on having the diff in for a day or so for the drift day, I can't hold drifts with the single spinner so I need a nice cheap alternative.....
though I don't really want to get stuck out there
Might stick the single spinner in the boot incase anything goes wrong
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Mon, 20 October 2003 13:58
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they are some very nice tracks there 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Mon, 20 October 2003 23:59
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Weldies are cheap for a reason though - a very necessary paddock car addition, can be damned good fun, but have a few nasty habbits, like busting themselves/axles at inconvenient moments, driving apallingly (if) you want to go quietly, and heaven forbid if you let someone ELSE drive the car
btw Gemini's probably have the most effective standard handbrake of all the Sardine Can cars
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Tue, 21 October 2003 03:25
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| Henn wrote on Wed, 15 October 2003 11:28 |
Redline and clutch dump will ensure that you get sideways in just about anything (3Ks excluded).
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untrue
145s on the back solves the 'lack of power' issue
ab
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Tue, 21 October 2003 10:03
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I see no reason why not. The crownwheel still looks OK.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Tue, 21 October 2003 14:24
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if I get a stuffed diff to weld
what needs to be still ok to work?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Welded Diffs
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Tue, 21 October 2003 15:15
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It needs to direct drive to the rear wheels! At the end of the day, you're gonna f*#k it eventually so who cares what it sounds like?!!! Noisy, rusty, leaking, ... who cares?!
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