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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 05:21
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Ooroo,
I'm in the process of converting my MA61 to 5 stud, and as part of that process, I'm planning to upgrade the brakes to something much more suitable than the already good standard brakes.
The general query is that I'd be interested in doing something similar to Jim King in the States , whereby I can design and make several kits based on either 4 or 5 stud hubs for anyone that is interested.
If you are, it will be a few months away (as we all know, good things always take time ...  ), but would like to garner some thoughts on what people would pay, and or what size and type of discs and calipers that they would be looking at.
Typically, I'd be looking at something like 330mm x 28mm discs (DBA or Wilwood) with an alloy hat (2 piece construction), and production 4 pot calipers from a Nissan 300ZX (good availability of pads and parts) and the obligatory caliper brackets.
Ideally this would suit 16" or 17" rims.
Let me know if there is any interest and I'll see what I can drum up
Cheers
Michael Bachmann
Let me know if you would be interested
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 05:38
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My interest is dependant upon cost.
The 'BBK' kit is a little too expensive for my liking esp when we have to add shipping, which im sure Ed can tell you was a mountain for the rotors (damn wish i brought myself some back).
Direct from Wilwood in the states the rotors are a bargain, from here the price is almost double.
I would like to see a cheapish big brake kit on a budget 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 05:42
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yeah, i'm in for that too
whats the Jim Kings worth? (without shipping)
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 05:45
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US$310 for front
US$650 for front and rear
and then add a LOT for postage
the rotors were 10kg each if i recall
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 05:51
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so about $450AUD for front? (at current exchange rates)
whats a comparable kit gonna cost in aust?
(as you can see i've never looked into this...ever)
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 05:52
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 20 November 2003 13:21 |
I'll see what I can DRUM up
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lets hope not 
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 05:53
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$450 is reasonable, but when you were looking of paying US$100+ postage.......um no
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 05:54
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BlackSupra - What is your budget ??
I saw on one of the forums that the kits were US $310 for the hats and brackets only. Rotors, Calipers and Pads were extra. And that was with a group buy of 20 units !!!!
I'd probably use DBA discs, but depends on what the price is and what the mounting PCD is, and also what suits the calipers a bit better.
Nothing custom is cheap, but everyone has a different version of what cheap is
If you are interesetd, mention a reasonable budget cost, and what that cost would be for
Cheers
Michael B
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 06:07
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well i know a good pair of 4 spots will set me back around $300-$400 second hand, but they may even be overkill.
Id like to see all the custom stuff work out to around $250-350.
So essentially the brackets. What this means is you can design a bracket that will accept 'X' rotor and 'Y' calipers and all bolt up to the MA61 nicely.
If people buy the custom stuff upfront, they can source the rotors, hats, calipers seperatly at there own lesiure (and in my case, when i have the $$$).
Just an idea which i think would stimulate more purcahsers of custom stuff and get the price down a bit.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 06:13
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I'm interested in a custom hat to suit a large rotor which is easily available locally (something like a HSV rotor would be ideal, you can get them anywhere). I already have calipers and fabricating a bracket is easy, so I'm not interested in that part. 
Obviously my interest will depend on the cost - the US version of the BBK was a way too spendy for my liking, epsecially with shipping factored in.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 06:19
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Ok, so before i get too excited and put my hand up saying "i want one", how much would i be looking at to get saaay, 330mm rotor, 2 spot or 4 spot calipers, on the car working?
i'm talking everything
what would be a rough estimate (nearest $100)
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 06:27
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$800ish
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 06:31
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yeah, thats what i thought
in order to get that i'd have to upgrade to 16"/17" mags to go over them
and once i can afford that... well, let me just say it wont be soon
count me out ppls
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 07:15
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Like I mentioned in the original post, the kit would be for 16" or 17" rims.
The way that I would intend doing it would be to manufacture a disc hat that would allow the biggest disc possible to fit inside either a 16" or 17" rim that has a common mounting diameter, i.e. a 305mm rotor for 16" and 330mm rotor for 17" rims, and make the caliper mounting bracket such that it would have 2 sets of mounting holes, one for each application.
I would probably stick to the 300ZX calipers as they are easily available - $250 to $300 per pair, and can be sourced by the owner and reconditioned by themselves or included in the kit.
Thr DBA rotors would probably be the the 4000 or 5000 series units, or the Wilwood rotors (2nd choice option). I may even be able to come up with a suitable rotor direct from DBA that does not require a mounting hat.
Realistically, I'd be surprised whether I could do the mounting hat and the caliper bracket for $400. Dunno yet, as I haven't started, but have a good idea of what I can do. I have plenty of suitable material for the alloy disc hat (thankyou Mr BAe), and I have some good machinging contacts.
The aim would be able to make the package engineer certified, so all of the relevant documentation can be supplied as well.
Keep feeding me desires and I'll see what I can do
Cheers
Michael B
PS Time to go home
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 07:33
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other options for the brakes would be the ST205 4-spots (which are apparently a lot lighter than the 300zx ones).
as for rotors - as was mentioned, if you can find somewhere that will do standard issue undrilled rotors (so you can have your 4 or 5 stud applications) then it'll be a LOT cheaper than custom work. The lotus rotors are amazing, but I've heard you need to get your car down to around 1100kgs to avoid warping them.
I would also be interested - depending on cost obviously.
anyone have a spare set of mclaren f1 rotors, calipers, and rims?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 07:40
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Thanks Draven,
What is the cost for the ST205 4 potters, and what is their availability ?
The aim with the calipers is to be able to use something easily available and cheap to source.
With the discs being 28 to 32mm thick (depending on the calipers) warping them will not be a problem Even here at Mallala
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 07:49
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no idea - I was just offering another option
I'm too busy trying to get my car running to worry too much about major upgrades (and I still end up with a new radiator, thermos, suspension, bushes, tyres, intercooler... it's an obsession)
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 08:30
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Cressida Supra -> it will be a large cost all up including rims etc, but the idea is jump on the custom stuff in a group buy situation so you have it for whenever u feel rich enough to buy the off the shelf items and rims.
Thats my theory anyway, if the custom stuff is at a decent price ill jump on it and shelve it.
Micheal B. -> can you give us a pic of the rims you scored?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 08:34
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that's my plan - if the kit turns out to be affordable, I'll buy it and leave it sitting in the garage till I can afford some big rims (ed will shudder at this, but simmons are holding top spot at the moment)
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 08:40
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Yeah then we can do a group buy on custom simmons OM's
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Launceston, Tasmania
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 10:27
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Don't bother going overseas for brake stuff!!! I have 328mmx28mm slotted discs on custom hats on my car from Specialised Brake and Clutch in Sydney. These guys have over 1000 hats in stock and will mount it to suit whatever offset you like. They also made up braided brake lines to suit my brembo's for $45 per side. HSV discs are about $450-$500 a pop anyway and then you have to modify everything to suit. IMHO give them a call, I dropped my car off there in the morning and picked it up ready, late the same day. It doesn't get any better than that if you ask me!
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 10:34
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What is your setup and what did it cost?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 10:39
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and are their braided brake lines legal?
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Location:
Launceston, Tasmania
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 10:46
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The brembo's I got real cheap off a mate! Here's the run down and I think this is cheap considering what SOME places charge for big brakes.
Performance pads 159.50
Hoses 99.00
Labour 198.00
Custom sec hat/rotor 450.00(each)+ gst so 990.00 both sides allup
Yes Braided lines are legal if they have the sticker on them!
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 11:32
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"Ok, so before i get too excited and put my hand up saying "i want one", " - if we're talking HSV parts, isn't that meant to be 'I JUST want one'?? 
Anyways, I'm using UZS131 Crown hubs (with a different bearing), xa6a struts and R33 GTR V spec (324mm) rotors on my car, I'll take some pics IF THE FREAKING ROTORS EVER ARRIVE!!!... Bloody RDA...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 11:41
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what did that cost, all up?
$1500 is a bit over my budget
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 12:18
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Hmmm, so far the only thing I've paid for has been an MX83 master cylinder, the rotors will have to be paid for WHEN THEY COME!... The calipers I had, the hubs I had, ooh and the bearing cups were $12 I think. That's SO far anyway!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 12:30
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| BlackSupra wrote on Thu, 20 November 2003 16:38 |
which im sure Ed can tell you was a mountain for the rotors (damn wish i brought myself some back).
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yes, yes, shipping costs were enormous!!! 
btw - i think youre all overlooking the fact that wheel and caliper chioce SIGNIFICANTLY impacts on the final caliper mounting postion, and thus the lateral rotor position and hat design. i think youll find yourselve digging a very deep hole making a 'one kit fits all' solution.
people will have different wheels and calipers, are you going to take all these design variable into account when manufacturing the final 'universal' pieces?
hmmmmm
id offer details of my setup, but its so totally custom it would be utterly useless to anyone else...
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 20:45
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Black Supra,
The rims I scored were 16x8" B45 Simmons. They have a Charcoal Grey Centre and I'll be picking them up on Tuesday (getting freighted from Melbourne.
Ed,
Yes it can be a minefield to make a kit to suit all, but it is worth a try. Some careful selection will yield good results, but then it may not. 
Supra1jz,
Sounds like you got a pretty good deal, but what did they charge for the caliper mounting brackets ? Do you have a picture of your setup ?
All fodder for the thought process
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Thu, 20 November 2003 22:07
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i'd be interested, depending on apataptability, as ed mentioned
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Sat, 22 November 2003 23:17
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I'll offer some input, especially seeing as I met Jim King last night(breat bloke btw)
He was saying that in his opinion, the specs on his bbk are "overkill" for the mk2. So perhaps it's not worth going with the same size rotors. Apparently locking up the front is quite easy to do... Obviously rotor size isn't the only thing that will impact on braking performance, but perhaps it will help reduce costs if they aren't so big?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Sat, 22 November 2003 23:20
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depends waht you want them for
little rotors heat up really quickly under track conditions, and you get uber brake fade.
and yes, tyre choice is extremely important in how easily you lock up
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Sun, 23 November 2003 03:38
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Locking up the fronts suggests the front/rear bias needs adjustment; the size of the brakes has nothing to do with this.
Speaking for myself, I want the biggest brakes possible (within reason). I have lots of power and I plan on doing some track work, and when it comes to circuit racing, there's no such thing as oversized brakes!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Sun, 23 November 2003 10:43
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fwiw: heres my calipers and discs...
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: BBK for MA61's
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Sun, 23 November 2003 11:09
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They were once very shiny.
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