| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Auckland, New Zealand
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Thu, 01 August 2002 22:27
|
 |
Does anyone know any brake upgrades for the AE86 where you don't have to change struts?
I still want to use my AE86 shocks.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Fri, 02 August 2002 01:18
|
|
when it comes to brake upgrades, there are almost endless possibilities bounded only by the amount of money you are prepared to spend. the easiest brake upgrade is always the use of some form of performance brake pad. i would strongly reccommend EBC Green Stuff pads a a quick, cheap and effective brake upgrade. however this is ok, you car with it's tiny solid discs is never going to be any good. so for an AE86, the cheapest and probably the most cost effective brake conversion is a jamanese spec AE86 brake upgrade. all of the parts are a direct bolt on and the increase in performance is fantastic. the use of a slightly bigger and thicker vented disc make the cooling efficiency far better and resistance to brake fade is increased. these parts (hubs, discs, calipers and brakets) can be obtained for around the $400 mark, and although not all that easy to obtain, would deffinately be the first option to look at.
if you were keen to source parts out of Melbourne, Australia, you could contact IDB automotive in Richmond. they supply and fit brake upgrade conversions for your car and most toyotas, but i must warn you they are very expensive, if you are prepared to get your hands dirty and do some parts hunting yourself, you can create a similar package at a better price.
another factor of brake conversions that is quite often overlooked is that of a brake master cylinder upgrade if the new calipers have larger or more pistons that what is on the stock caliper. the master cylinder in this case needs to have a larger bore size to supply more fluid per depression of the pedal so that prkae feel is retained. this is where the JDM conversion is the easiest, as the piston size, although not the same, is comparable to the size of the stock pistons, hence making the conversion far easier and still retaining the firm solid pedal feel that comes stock.
anyway, getting back to IDB conversions. they provide bolt on 2 piston and 4 piston kits that are fantastic in terms of their build quality and effectiveness. from memory they charge around the AUS$1200 mark for the 2 piston and $1600 for the 4 piston conversion, both on 11 inch vented discs, new hubs, struts, etc, but they do not include an upgraded master cylinder so the result is a soft spongy pedal feel. i reccommend you look them up and call them, or ask around the forums of people who have their kit's fitted to AE86's.
brake upgrades are rarely difficult, especially with the huge range of interchangable toyota parts from different models. if you are keen to do a conversion, and you feel you are capable, i suggest you give it a go yourself, or at least develop the conversion and obtain your own parts and have it fitted by a mechanic with strict and specific instructions so he does not rip you off.
i hope this give you some indication of where to start......
|
|
|
Location:
Auckland, New Zealand
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Fri, 02 August 2002 02:04
|
|
damn!
I'm speachless, that was a great reply.
I think I'll look around locally and see what they can do, perhaps some 4pot skyline brakes or something.
Anyway, thanks for that.
|
|
|
Location:
GoldCoast/Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Sat, 03 August 2002 11:52
|
|
I have the Aus delivered Sprinter currently being lovingly restored! 
Are there any rear disk setups that can be easily converted to, as it has drums at the back????
I know that its more important to upgrade the fronts as they do the majority of the work, but I think I will not be able to stand the sight of the drums after spending so much money doing up every other aspect of the car.
Thanks for any info!
Adrian!
|
|
|
Location:
Auckland, New Zealand
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Sat, 03 August 2002 12:19
|
|
|
Personally, I would recommend you upgrade your diff because the S series is pretty just a big paper weight.
|
|
|
Location:
GoldCoast/Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Sat, 03 August 2002 13:23
|
|
Do you mean getting the diff from a jap AE86?, i suspect you mean they have disks on either end, am i right???
I was told by an importer that they are almost impossible to find and that when you do come across one they are around $2000 I was like WTF???? The guy then said, you want me to look around japan for you on my next trip over..? I was like "haha, No...No thats OK.....I'll take RAINCHECK!"
|
|
|
Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
|
 Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Sat, 03 August 2002 14:26
|
|
2Grand, what a joke. For that sort of money you could get a commodore diff and get it cut down to fit. All the diff centres you want and disk brakes parts for it would be a piece of cake.
That is if you can stand having a non-toyota part in this resto your working on.
|
|
|
Location:
Auckland, New Zealand
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Sat, 03 August 2002 21:17
|
|
I was talking about getting a larger live axle w/ LSD from a wreckers, then get the mounts changed.
I've got a MS112 Crown 7.5' Rear end with MA-61 LSD
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Sun, 04 August 2002 02:35
|
|
|
Well I'm using a borg warner LSD in my ae86, and it seems to be working fairly well. Trick is to start with one from an r31 skyline, not a dunnydore, that way the width is pretty close (no funny business with axles), its got discs and the right stud pattern already. Make sure you use a 4 pinion (28 spline) one, and if you can't find a silhouette LSD, then get the centre from a commodore (mines from a VS clubsport) and some new 4.11 gears.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Front and Rear upgrades
|
Sun, 04 August 2002 13:03
|
|
Ive accumulated a couple of ideas over time, but they may not work. and hence may need confirming.
Rear,
What about the Mitsubishi Scorpion differential conversion? Apparently its the exact same width and stud pattern as the Sprinter diff and comes with decent discs and calipers, but the brackets need to swapped over. Theres also supposed to be an LSD centre available with a few different ratios.
Front (two options),
(1) Atleast 5 different people have told me that the S13 Silvia uses the exact same stud pattern and offset as the Sprinter. If this is the case then maybe the front vented discs could be viable option. Again, confirmation?
(2) Apparently the vented discs from one of the later Magnas use the exact same bolt pattern to attach the disc to the hub. The hub diameter needs to be machined down a bit to fit inside the disc but looks like no real hassle. then just some new caliper mounts need making. It also increases the front track by approx 10-20mm
 Now believe me, I am not really sure about any of these.
Personally for the front discs, I was simply thinking of searching through the DBA catalogue for a disc which uses the same approximate dimensions (except for diameter and thickness) as the Sprinter (have a look at the catalogue, you'll see what I mean). Buy a vented and slotted pair as blanks, get them drilled by a workshop to fit the standard hub. Then once again some new caliper mounts and a set of suitable calipers.
Of course i also wont forget a suitable master cylinder, but seems like a different issue.
If anyone can confirm or outright dismiss any of this incessant rambling, please do.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Mon, 05 August 2002 12:33
|
|
Mrshin, did you have any problems with the handbrake setup with the skyline/borg warner diff?
Is the R31 the Oz delivered or Jap? I would'nt mind doing this to my TA22!
How do you know if its a 4 pinion (28 spline) item or not?
Thanks.
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Tue, 06 August 2002 00:43
|
|
For handbrake cables, I just got to work with pieces of scrap steel, oxy orch, grinder, file, etc. and made up some using the original ae86 and r31 cables - not too hard.
Jap R31's had IRS, whereas Aussie ones used the borg warner diff.
Nearly all r31 skylines are 4 pinion, and all the LSD ones are. Problem is the LSD only came in the Silhouette, so they're not that easy to find and may be pricey. Otherwise, buy an open centre 4 pinion rear end (remember pintara ones are 2 pinion!) and then get an LSD centre from a commodore or falcon (make sure you get a 4 pinion one!) and go from there.
If you really wanna know what it is, pull out an axle and start counting The 28's are the nice fat axle, 25's are skinnier uglier thing.
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Tue, 06 August 2002 04:55
|
|
has any one got more info about the scorpion diff conversion that Rex Kelway sugested?
Cheers, Andrew
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Tue, 06 August 2002 09:22
|
|
Mrshin, Thanks for that info! You dont know the size of the 28 spline do you? It will save me counting 
Also, cane you replace a 2 pinion with a 4 pinion center?
Thanks mate.
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Tue, 06 August 2002 13:21
|
|
Uhmmm, I think there's a bent axle in the shed *somewhere* that could be measured. Thing is where... But hey, its not too hard to count.
You can swap a 2 pinion centre for a 4, but you are gonna need to change the axles too - 25 spline axles wont work too well in 28 spline holes! But an r31 skyline rear end aint hard to come by, and I think all of them are 4 pinion, unless some tightarse has bent the diff on a gutter and put a pintara one in to replace it... If you happen to find a skyline LSD, it will be 4 pinion. I wasn't that lucky at the time, but I managed to get a VS clubsport diff (its IRS, but the centre is still the same) for $250 so just used the LSD out of that along with new 4.11 gears in the skyline housing with skyline axles. With the width, it worked out perfectly by having about ½ inch taken from each side of the diff housing, and the same amount taken off the axles (you can shorten axles slightly with no worry, not a problem until you respline them which is when they tend to break). With my wheels, it just fills the guards out nicely without any rolling or rubbing.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Wed, 07 August 2002 04:05
|
|
Dont worry about the size of the axle then mate!
But you would'nt know the width of the diff of hand would you?
Thanks.
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Wed, 07 August 2002 05:03
|
|
Uhmmm, from the top of my head (mullet and all), I think it was 1420mm for the ae86 diff, 1460 for the R31 diff, disc/disc and drum/drum. That's what I remember anyways... As I remember there was about 10mm/side trimmed from the R31 diff. Don't quote these numbers in a court of law 
I can get out the measuring tape when I get home if you like.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Wed, 07 August 2002 07:46
|
|
Thanks mate 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Wed, 07 August 2002 14:22
|
|
|
while we're here talking about brakes, oops i mean diffs, oops, ahhh, whatever, when does it ever stay on track??? anyway, what is the stock width, between the wheel mounting surfaces of a TA22 diff?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Thu, 08 August 2002 08:21
|
|
|
great, thanks for that Cool1. now it would be helpful to know how far the brakes etc stick out past the flanges. that's why i want to know the width between the actual wheel mounting surfaces. would be more helpful to know this!!!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Thu, 08 August 2002 08:32
|
|
I could probly get the width of the drum! But I think this sits towards the inside of the diff(if you know what I mean) 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Thu, 08 August 2002 08:34
|
|
|
yeah i know what you mean, but i'm sure the width of the wheel mounting surfaces is wider than the flange width. maybe i'll measure mine one day, just thought someone'd know...
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Thu, 08 August 2002 08:45
|
|
Fark me I hate spiders :-
I jsut went and measured the drum. It adds between 155 and 165mm either side of the flange!
Did I say I hate spiders......
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Thu, 08 August 2002 09:02
|
|
|
WOW, that couldn't be right, could it?? if so, that'd make the distance between wheel mounting surfaces somewhere around the 1550mm mark. does this sound about right? hmmmm, anyway, thanks for braving the spiders to give me the info.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Thu, 08 August 2002 09:09
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure that is correct! If i get time on the weekend i'll take the wheels off the car and measure the whole diff correctly!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Thu, 08 August 2002 09:29
|
|
|
ok, i finally went out and did it!!! not fun lying on the cold ground in the dark, but with the tape measure i measures the distance between the inner edges of the wheels. i then measured the wheel mounting depth from the edge of each wheel and the total is close to 1350mm. thanks for your help, but here it is!!
|
|
|
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Fri, 09 August 2002 05:59
|
|
No offence guys, but dang, 4ag's must make crap all torque. R31 Skyline diff? Ok i have an r31 skyline, and, this is not a good diff. With a stock 114kw rb30, these have been trouble since day one, they are the cars biggest, best known weak point-everyone has diff problems. I fixed mine , stopped the clunking and whining six months ago, and its coming back, and by the end of the year will want another reco job.but if a 4ag is not strong enough to shit the diff, well you are lucky, and it would theoretically be a good upgrade. Silhouette lsd's are an old style clutch type, and tend to wear quickly, and are hell expensive to fix. An XR6 centre is a better alternative, but the ratios are not plentiful, 3.9's probably as low as you'd get, I'm guessing. But if it works, cool. I guess you get the right studpattern and close to the right offset too, once the width is sorted, they are 4*114.3, and decent discs, so it might be okay.You might even get away with the pintara diff, which has smaller axles so is ligher, but an lsd is an impossibility.
cheers,
floody
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: AE86 Front Brake Upgardes
|
Sat, 10 August 2002 12:34
|
|
When sucking through a busted up turbo (massive inlet and exhaust restriction, no boost), then a 4ag REALLY does have absolutely NO balls whatsoever. Much worse than the old 4ac! With a bit of boost though, its surprising what they can manage, after all mine fairly busted all the teeth clean off 2nd gear.
As for the Skyline rear ends being noisy plicks of things, thats the fault of the gears, not the diff itself. The 3.7 and 3.889 BW gearsets are to be avoided if at all possible - they always end up noisy very quickly. I used a brand new set of 4.11s, and have to say no complaints.
You COULD use a 25 spline pintara housing, and then get an LSD from an atmo VL, or an xd-xf falcon, but why bother?
As for diff centres, I'm using a VS clubsport one, which is an old school shredder type, but hey, it works. You could also use the viscous type 'hydratrak' one from a HSV, although these don't last forever if given a good belting of torque (probably more than a boosted 1600 is gonna have though!). Failing that, go for the KAAZ centre if you want something even stronger.
|
|
|
