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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Choosing shocks!
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Sat, 27 December 2003 04:28
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Ok I have SA63 struts that I wish to use (I believe that these struts will accept my MX62 strut inserts as well as those out of MA61 or of course SA63 / RA65).
I can get KYB shocks (to fit MX62, MX73, MX83 Cressida) for $149 each I believe. Or I could choose the SA63 (365005) or MX83/MA61 (365026, I think the 365001's are out of stock. Also what is the difference between them I wounder?) shocks?
Does anyone know the stroke of the MA61 / MX62 units (I believe SA63 to be 200mm)? I'll be looking to lower the car a fair bit so reduced stroke would be nice, yes?
What would everyone recommend, atm I think the correct MX62 KYB's are the go...
If anyone cares....
Make / Model / KYB Part Number
Celica
77-85 RA40, RA60, RA65, SA63 365005
Corona
80-83 RT132, RT133 365005
Cressida
81-84 MX62 365017
84-89 MX73, MX83 365017
89-93 MX83 365026
Supra 81-5/83 MA61 365026
6/83-86 MA61 365001
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sat, 27 December 2003 04:51
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got your net working again hey wilbo, good 2 c.
if u want i can get u cheap KYB's
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sat, 27 December 2003 08:26
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ST185 GT4 celica is the way to go mate
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sat, 27 December 2003 16:09
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ST185 GT4 celica is the way to go mate
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I dont think that he wants short stroke suspension.
Wilbo: What kinda shock do you want? I see that you have chosen numbers for gas-shocks. My guess is that 36-5026(in heaviest/sportiest car) is the stiffest and 36-5001 is the softest (in un-sporty light Carinas and basic model Celicas TA23-TA60). It's all about valving.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sat, 27 December 2003 22:25
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Is there any easy way to match a shock to a spring weight?
Like lets say I was thinking of running 300lbs/in springs, so how would you find the best shock for this spring?
I was also thinking of KYB.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sun, 28 December 2003 02:03
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| philmelvin wrote on Sat, 27 December 2003 15:51 |
got your net working again hey wilbo, good 2 c.
if u want i can get u cheap KYB's
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Lol nope no net as of yet :S I was visiting the folks who have it...doh!
YES CHEAP KYB's would be TOPS!!!
(can you price the 36-5017's and 36-5026's for me)
also
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Wilbo: What kinda shock do you want? I see that you have chosen numbers for gas-shocks. My guess is that 36-5026(in heaviest/sportiest car) is the stiffest and 36-5001 is the softest (in un-sporty light Carinas and basic model Celicas TA23-TA60). It's all about valving.
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Can anyone shed some light on this? If this is the case I might lean towards the shocks designed for the heaviest car (i.e. 36-5026), of course anything would be an upgrade on what I have at the moment tho!
Cheers
Wilbo
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sun, 28 December 2003 02:33
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| wilbo666 wrote on Sat, 27 December 2003 14:28 |
Does anyone know the stroke of the MA61 / MX62 units (I believe SA63 to be 200mm)? I'll be looking to lower the car a fair bit so reduced stroke would be nice, yes?
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i think he does want shorter stroke susp.
in which case the GT4 shocks would be perfect in this application (excellent valving rate too as they are made for a heavy 4wd turbo car)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sun, 28 December 2003 04:02
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Simon-MrRx7:
What are the spec on the GT4 shocks? Will I need spacers? I believe the body length of the SA63 strut casing to be 405mm (second hand info though), what is the body length of the GT4 shocks?
I don't know the stroke of my current shocks, although I believe it to be around 200mm (can anyone confirm this?). What is the stroke of the GT4 shocks?
If I am lowering around 50mm shorter stroke would be a good idea right....? (as well as RCA's of course)
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sun, 28 December 2003 09:16
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How do u put the GT4 shocks into an RA60 strut? Im not clued up on suspension.. Does it just bolt in and you use spacers?
Also can u have short stroke front and normal rear or do u need the gt4 for rear as well?
thanx
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sun, 28 December 2003 09:23
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geez if i knew people wanted gt4 front struts they could have had the ones i had - they were in good shape too - now in a bin somewhere ..
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sun, 28 December 2003 13:03
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So would GA61 suspension = MA61 suspension??
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Sun, 28 December 2003 16:01
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| Quote: |
wilbo666 wrote on Sat, 27 December 2003 14:28
Does anyone know the stroke of the MA61 / MX62 units (I believe SA63 to be 200mm)? I'll be looking to lower the car a fair bit so reduced stroke would be nice, yes?
i think he does want shorter stroke susp.
in which case the GT4 shocks would be perfect in this application (excellent valving rate too as they are made for a heavy 4wd turbo car)
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I dont think how I missed that sentence but Simon is right! GT4 shock is the way to go. Do you simon believe that V6 Camry would have even stiffer valving.
Wilbo: you seem to plan more advanced suspension mods than I thought. If you choose to use GT4 shocks you will need spacers. GT4 shocks are roughly 100mm shorter. Shock body is 60mm shorter and stroke 40mm. This applies to Camry, Corolla and Carina as well. You will need 60mm worth of spacers. You can shorten your strut any more than 40mm is madness. Since you go with lowering springs, I mean not adjustable. It would be wise to get spacer that match with your ride height and shock. Shocks are generally designed to work with 30/70 rebound/compression ratio. It is easy to measure the spacers that you will need and you will need 4 spacers overall (one in the bottom of the strut and one ring type spacer on top of the shock yet inside of the strut tube). Suitable washers makes measuring easy. You can shorten your struts after measuring this if you like. This is the right way to make things work.
I myself use AE92 GTI shocks in my application. I also have adjustable coil-overs so adjusting rebound/compression ratio is easy.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Tue, 30 December 2003 03:50
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Ok...well now things are starting to get interesting..lol 
Jayem, when you talk about shortening the strut, do you mean cutting it down and then rethreading the top? If so what is the advantage of this? I might as well just use bigger a bigger spacer in the bottom of the strut right?
As for needing to use spacers, if the stroke is 40mm less (which sounds ideal) is there any reason that I can't just put a 60mm spacer in the bottom of the actual strut housing (before putting the GT4 shock in) to make up for the shorter strut insert height of the GT4 unit?
I don't get using a spacer / washer on the top of the strut if I don't want to reduce the stroke more than the 40mm I will already get over using GT4 units (washers / spacers on the top would be able to change this correct?)
ATM I'm leaning towards just using a stock KYB shock and hoping it handles the reduced stroke
Cheers
Wilbo
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Tue, 30 December 2003 06:54
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i had the measurements and everything for the shocks but i lost them when my HDD crashed.
from memory they have a much shorter stroke and casing then the ae86 item.
just get a pair of these brand new from KYB for 180n the pair like i did, get the group A items as they have better valving again.
run a spacer in them OR reduce the strut length (requires modification)
not hard
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Tue, 30 December 2003 06:56
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some comparisons...
Front Insert Dimensions:
AE86
Body length: 402mm
Extended length: 604mm
Extended minus Body: 202mm
Outside Diameter: 43.5mm
AE92:
Body length: 336mm
Extended length: 500mm
Extended minus Body: 164mm
Outside Diameter: 43.5mm
Celica T/RA63
Body length: 405mm
Extended length: 605mm (3dr hatch maybe shorter then this)
Extended minus Body: 200mm
Outside Diameter: 43.5mm
Shaft diameter: 22mm
Corolla KE35:
Body length: 414mm
Extended length: 613mm
Extended minus Body: 199mm
Outside Diameter: 38mm
Corona TT132
Body length: 403mm
Extended length: 600mm
Extended minus Body: 197mm
Outside Diameter: 43.5mm
AW11 S/C (rear shock)
Body length: 345mm
Outside Diameter: 43.5mm
Tokico HTS
Body length: 332mm
Extended length: 476mm
Extended minus Body: 144mm
Outside Diameter: 43.5mm
Rear Shocks Dimensions:
AE86
Extended Length: 560mm
Closed Length: 335mm
Peugeot 505
Extended length: 420mm
Extended minus Body: 270mm
KYB Twin Tube (Oil) Rating (344004): 1900/600
Toyota Cressida/Mark II GX70 Station Wagon
Dimensions unknown but good for AE86 rear shock, sim to Peugeot above, maybe stiffer
Hilux (front shock)
Extended length: 420mm
KYB Monotube (Gas) Rating (KG5437): 3100/1000
Mazda RX-7 Gen 1
Extended Length: 540mm
Closed Length: 323mm
Celica T/RA63
Extended Length: 620mm
Closed Length: 320mm
'82 Camaro (16" wheels)
Extended Length: 486mm
Closed Length: 309mm
Tokico HTS
Extended Length: 455mm
Closed Length: 307.5mm
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Tue, 30 December 2003 06:58
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ok GT4 shock body is 328mm, this is the BODY lenght
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Wed, 31 December 2003 01:40
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Jayem, yeah thats what I thought you meant. If I didn't want to cut the strut I could put a washer like spacer on top of the strut insert right? But how do I know the range of compression / rebound? Do I also hav to source that information from somewhere? If so where 
From another thread and courtesy of Steve-AE86
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MA61
Type T6
Body 397
Comp 408
Extn 617
___________________
SA63/RA60
Type T6
Body 405
Comp 405
Extn 609
___________________
MX62 (9/80-8/82)
Type T5
Body 387
Comp 399
Extn 591
___________________
MX62 (9/80-7/84)
same as MA61
___________________
ST185
Type T6
Body 328
Comp 355
Extn 483
___________________
ok. believe it or not, ALL commodore, from 78-93 will fit SA63 struts, are exactly the right body length, and compressed length, but have 10mm less stroke.
"
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=26050&rid=36&S=1364150714957a72d00617199 5125cb8
So that gives MX62 / MA61 a stroke of Extn 617 - Comp 408 = 209
The ST185's are Extn 483 - Comp 355 = 128 
Thats way to much reduced stroke!!! (Just using the body length minus the extension length won't give the correct stroke will it? )
AE92 Shocks are looking good tho 
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Wed, 31 December 2003 02:59
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believe it or not, ALL commodore, from 78-93 will fit SA63 struts, are exactly the right body length, and compressed length, but have 10mm less stroke
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Isnt that perfect then if it has a shorter stroke?
If they really do fit all ra60/sa63 struts that would be good!
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Wed, 31 December 2003 12:11
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Jayem, yeah thats what I thought you meant. If I didn't want to cut the strut I could put a washer like spacer on top of the strut insert right? But how do I know the range of compression / rebound? Do I also hav to source that information from somewhere? If so where
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Quoting myself(I'm a weirdo):
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you will need 4 spacers overall (one in the bottom of the strut and one ring type spacer on top of the shock yet inside of the strut tube). Suitable washers makes measuring easy.
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This reduces stroke but I hear many people using setup like this with success. Ask your self, are you going to rally much? Do you need lots of suspension travel?
I find AE92 shock valving somewhat soft. Not that my car is hopping around. I'm using 4kg/mm springs. Shock itself is Monroe sensatrac.
V6 Camry shock might be worth checking.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Wed, 31 December 2003 14:45
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No, I won't be rallying the car. I'm aiming for a good street / occasional track day setup.
What do you think of the recommend KYB's for my car in the SA63 struts with Kings MA61 low springs (about 30mm drop?) in the front and MX62 Kings reset about 40mm lower at the rear keeping the existing Monroe shocks (upgrading to KYB's when the time comes).
With only a 30mm drop the KBY's should be able to cope shouldn't they? If I decide to only go for a 30mm drop the commodore struts would indeed seem to be a good option with 10mm less stroke, and I would imagine with the size of the car that the valving would have to be heaver.
Opinions?
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Wed, 31 December 2003 16:29
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Damn right!
Kyb is an upgrade compared to other Harakiri-part-store product range.
Otherwise, sounds good to me!
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Thu, 01 January 2004 07:18
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Do you think the AE92 shocks would be ok with 300lbs/in (5.3kg) springs? Or would need a shock with better valving for this?
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Choosing shocks!
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Thu, 01 January 2004 18:05
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Of course it depends what shock brand/model do you have. My Sensatracs handles my 4kg/mm springs just fine but it feels like that these shocks are pretty edge of their performance. Maybe these shocks could handle stiffer springs but I wont get any stiffer springs, even that I would like to. Adjustable shocks first.
If you have springs(5.3kg/mm)and AE-92 shocks, I'm interested to hear how these work together.
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