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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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 faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 12:19
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where to start  ...
#1 engine is basically running 'smooth' and with zero 'mechanical' issues
#2 however, it currently seems to make fuck all power (~145rwhp), and the max speed she seems to get up to is about 160-170, and thats it!! (should be doing that on song in 4th! not like a sponge in 5th!)
#3 1 week ago, before exhaust and intake mods, she was making about 170rwhp
im thinking she might be in limp mode?? running rich-as with fuck all timing?? might explain the shockin fuel consumption lately... would the stuff below be sufficient to get her into limp mode??
-theres a persistant TPS error code (51), which despite adjusting, wont clear (yes ive reset the ecu) -perhaps the non existant AC ??
-today we added error codes 41,42 and 43 to the list:
| Quote: |
41: Throttle position sensor signal
Open or short circuit in throttle position sensor signal
* Throttle position sensor circuit
* Throttle position sensor
* ECU
42 Vehicle speed sensor signal
No "SPD" signal to ECU for 8 seconds when engine speed is between 2,500 and 4,500 (7M-GE) or 4,000 (7M-GTE) rpm and coolant temp is below 80 deg C(176 deg F) and neutral start switch is off
* Vehicle speed sensor circuit
* Vehicle speed sensor
* ECU
43 Starter signal
No "STA" signal to ECU until engine speed reaches 800 rpm with vehicle not moving
* Ignition switch circuit
* Ignition switch
* ECU
51 Switch Signal
No "IDL" signal, "NSW" signal or "A/C" signal to ECU during diagnostic check
* A/C switch circuit
* A/C switch
* A/C amplifier
* Throttle position sensor circuit
* Throttle position sensor
* ECU
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now from errors 42 and 43 might respond to starting and running the engine, and ill trouble shoot thse tomorow. but the TPS has me confused... would this be enough to screw over the entire engine?
perhaps im barking up the wrong tree. wtf else is there? spark is good, fuel is good. some info on AFR's would be handy i guess...
will check compression one day soon
oh, and tailshaft is approaching rooted, but i cant see any weired harmonics sucking THAT much power out of the drivetrain. (i reckon the ol girl should be making about 190rwhp atm... wtf!!)
bastard engines
cheers
ed
[Updated on: Thu, 25 December 2003 13:04]
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 13:23
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Fire? 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 13:26
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WHERE!!??
*jumps to the raedy with his new extinguisher*
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 13:32
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Fuck me. I don't have a raedy. Off to Super Cheap tomorrow for one on special!
Is that no mech issue apart from ther miss or did you fix that?
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 13:33
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Might be a long shot but there seems to be one component that is in all those fault codes as a possible problem.
Couldn't hurt to try that as well.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 13:41
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it better ot be the damn ECU!! i dont exactly have a spare one sitting here 
motec anyone?
justin - miss has been pretty much sorted
20% off @ SC? 8am tomorrow, i know where ill be!
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 15:05
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bugger.. if i'd finished my thesis, i'd be up at your house tomorrow with a loomed up Megasquirt  heh heh, one day
good luck dude...
Cya, Stewart
ps, mobile is 0410 677857
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 15:15
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damn sewart - if it wasnt for that 8x8 fuel map! lol
we'll see how this goes. maybe ill be down your place on nye...
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 21:12
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Ed firstly, are you using an "auto ecu"?
Secondly, its an issue with the TPS to me. Yes that can cause the whole engine to run like shite. It'll go straight into limp mode and run like a dog as you'd only expect it.
Have you checked the resistance's with a meter coming from the TPS. Is it also getting a "home" signal which the TPS will give on a separte wire when the throttle is shut, this is usually an open closed contact not a variable resistance, i'd check that.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Thu, 25 December 2003 22:28
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Fri, 26 December 2003 00:41 |
motec anyone?
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Meee tooo!!!
3 cougers thanks!
Doh!
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Location:
Mildura
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Fri, 26 December 2003 01:40
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Ed
If you get desperate I have both a auto and manual ECU you can borrow to try(I have a couple of pistons missing ring lands so don't need them at the moment).
Supragte it doesn't matter what type of ECU they both run fine behind a manual.
Unbolt the TPS plug it in and go for a drive,I ran like this for a couple of weeks.
It will run like a pig down low and use heaps of fuel but might give you a indication of whats happening.
I kept getting codes 12,41,51 and a few others and replaced everything.
For some reason when I tried another AFM it fixed it?
Don't know why.
Are all your earths well grounded,they have a bad habit of causing codes.
Marty
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Fri, 26 December 2003 03:24
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when you changed the exhaust did you move the O2 sensor?, check the TPS plug to make sure its getting signal and then at the ecu end to make doubly sure a wire is not melted or shorting.
there is one other thing.... did they disconnect any earths under the car when they did the exhaust.. bad eart = bad power to ecu, youd be amazed at how little it takes to screw it all up.
I know on the RWD GE theres one right after the headers that often gets disconnected when they redo the exhaust cause its in the way
if you read the diagnosis the one thing that affects them all is going to be power A.K.A earth 
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Fri, 26 December 2003 07:48
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code 42 43 and 51 will not affect the way it runs
i would replace the throttle sensor first if u get those errors
first check wiring to throt sensor
if the throttle is tellin ecu that its still shut and u have it wide open then it would cause a prob
if u have an air flue signal modifier fuk it off for one go
see if its better
does it rev ok in 1st and 2nd
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Fri, 26 December 2003 12:17
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- Ed firstly, are you using an "auto ecu"?
hey paul... nope its a manual ecu with manual loom. the TPS, at face value, seems to be working ok, but ill pull the ECU plugs and see what signal its getting down the line.
- If you get desperate I have both a auto and manual ECU you can borrow to try
Thanks Marty what models are they out of? im using a Supra (yellow plug) loom and ecu (not the mx83 grey). dont suppose you have a spare TPS you want to offload do you?
- when you changed the exhaust did you move the O2 sensor?
yes, its now down the primaries a bit further, and is only sampling (at best) the first 3 cyls. Ill check for bad earths, but i dont thaink thats the issue at the moment
-code 42 43 and 51 will not affect the way it runs
but will code 41? ill check to see if its in limp mode tomorrow (ie engine check output stays on with diag jumper removed and engine running). i gather that code 42 would be expected (i mean is there even a speed sensor in an ma61??), but where the fuck did 43 come from? i dont see any issues with the starting circuit
41 and 51 seem to be TPS related, and as mentioned, i will trouble shoot that to the fullest extent of my ability tomorrow.
paul mentioned it, but can a dodgy TPS really affect the way the engine runs SO badly?
but anyway - yeah, it 'revs' fine in first and second. it just doesnt seem to be making any power, and feels very rich. i can only best describe it as the engine feeling 'soft' and it really has no balls. even at 3ooo rpm, where youd expect it to wail, im having trouble geting it to step out around a round about. as mentioned, top attained speed was a measly 170 odd
any further thoughts?
cheers guys!
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Fri, 26 December 2003 13:00
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one further point to ponder...
what exactly is the point of the speed sonsor?
a big assumption, but im guessing the ma61 doesnt have one? do people commonly have to connect up such do-dads when doing ma61 conversions? i hadnt heared of such issues in the past...
assuming i dont have a speed sensor, will the ecu really care about its absence? is this an error code i should be happy to ignore?
cheers
ed
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Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Fri, 26 December 2003 20:28
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If it was an auto ecu I might guess it was for something to do with the slushbox, but you have already said it is a manual one. My other guess would be for Cruise Control?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Fri, 26 December 2003 22:58
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speed sensors have two functions, to limit excessive speed via a signal to the ecu which then ignition cuts, eg 180KMH limited
and also to provide information for gear change in some auto boxes. usually it wont make any difference if its disconnected but there are some ecus that dont like it.
in my experience the worst a faulty or misaligned TPS will do is make the car run extremely rich, have a bad idle or pop and fart a bit, i doubt it would affect any other sensor excepting the O2 of course
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Sat, 27 December 2003 09:55
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| IRA11Y wrote on Sat, 27 December 2003 09:58 |
in my experience the worst a faulty or misaligned TPS will do is make the car run extremely rich, have a bad idle or pop and fart a bit
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well, i spent the WHOLE day trouble-shooting the entire system, and rebuilding my intake etc... all errors are gone (except 42 - speed sensor, which is to be expected!)
and michael - check, check, and um, check: she was rich-as, she had a bad idle, and popped and farted - all fixed (except i stil have a pesky miss coming from somewhere).
i cant say for certain what exactly was wrong, as i rebuilt EVRYTHING in one go, and i guess something i did in there was the right thing to do  i can be confident, however, in saying i suspect the TPS was not connecting with the loom correctly.
she now revs out very hard, and the cam timing mods are so much more obvious now! from 3.5k - 4.2k theres a hole in the power, then 4.3k rpm, BAM!!! on she comes..wohooo...
as an aside, i shoud note that removing the ECU and MAIN fuses overnight failed to clear the ecu codes!! it was only removing the battery terminal that finally did it...
much more to go to get my golden 200rwhp... but were getting there... (make that about 185 on the gtech allowing for wind drag)
thanks for you help guys!
cheers
ed
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Location:
Mildura
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Sat, 27 December 2003 10:56
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35-4200rpm is that where the miss is?
Is it like a flutter? kinda mixing cylnders then clears and all is fine?
If so and you work out what it is let me know.
I've been chasing the above symptoms for 18mnths.
marty
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Sun, 28 December 2003 08:11
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marty, check your cam timing. ive deliberately done this as it gives me considerably better mid-top end...
im going to play with it some more to try and improve 3-4k response, and ill let you know what i dig up.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Mon, 29 December 2003 11:08
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Ed,
With the o2 sensor in that position your car will be a prick to tune properly !!! (Assuming you go aftermarket EFI)
It would be better further back and getting a reading from all 6 than where it is, May have to go to a Bosche heated type sensor tho.
If you do get serious about aftermarket EFI then let me know.
Glad you got it mostly sorted dude. Can't wait to see it in action.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Mon, 29 December 2003 12:20
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hey rod! good to hear from you
just fired you a msg on icq... how serious do i have to be about aftermarket ecu's in order to talk to you
damn straight she could do with a proper tune, but she gets by... going harder and harder each day i fiddle with it now - can only be a good thing i guess. still have to get intake temps down to something reasonable tho... she heat soaks so quickly - to the point of knocking puling away from a red light sometimes
and yeah, the distance to the secondary collector (where an 02 sensor would pick up 6cyls) is about, oh, 5-6 foot....
cheers
ed
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: faarrrkkkkk...... (aka: 7M is shitting me)
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Mon, 29 December 2003 12:47
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She goes alright 
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