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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 22 January 2004 11:16
 
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Forget about spacers, you won't be able to get them engineered. Been there, asked that 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 22 January 2004 20:41
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I thought that if they were attached to either the mag or the hub, then it was OK ?
The design of these will be such that they stay with the wheel. Might have to talk to Doug Potts about it.
If they cannot be approved, I'll stick with the std brakes to start off with and then change them afterwards. 
Cheers
Michael B
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Fri, 23 January 2004 00:29
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Providing they are a hub extender/adapter which bolts to the hub and has a proper lip as opposed to a spacer which just sits on the wheel studs you should be able to get them engineered.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Fri, 23 January 2004 00:30
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Shit, this is JCMF...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Fri, 23 January 2004 00:43
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Wed, 21 January 2004 09:21 |
On another note, a mob (never dealt with them) have advertised Z32/R33 Front calipers for $220/pair delivered.
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Thanks for providing that info, I just ordered a pair and they should arrive early next week. That's a great price for 4-spot calipers!
I'm looking forward to starting my brake conversion... I just wish I could find some MS65 hubs. 
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Fri, 23 January 2004 01:52
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Hi Norbs,
Great to hear that you have gotten the calipers. Yeah, the price is great. I paid $300 and that was good for a pair. The palce that I got the rears from was after $295 EACH !!!!, yet they were the equal cheapest for the rears.
The place that is selling the Fronts at $220 a pair quoted me $150 + $20 for delivery.
I can get the caliper kits for the Fronts for $30.60 each (and that does both front calipers - seals, dust boots, & dust boot springs) if you need any.
Cheers
Michael B
PS Norbs, when are your mags arriving ?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Sat, 24 January 2004 04:36
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Rims should be here in a couple of weeks I think. Depends when the boat arrives from Japan. 
I just got back from Boss Wrecking in Brisbane where I finally found a complete MS65 Crown. Complete, that is, apart from the front hubs! AAAARGH!!! I bet someone from this thread is responsible. 
I also found an MS123 Crown while I was there, and they're going to pull the rear trailing arm/hub assembly out for me during the week. At least I'm getting somewhere...
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Sun, 25 January 2004 01:48
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All very interesting... does anyone know if we got Starions in 1989?
The Charger setup is interesting too... I wonder if our Valiant Chargers are the same?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Sun, 25 January 2004 02:31
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Fri, 23 January 2004 07:11 |
I thought that if they were attached to either the mag or the hub, then it was OK ?
The design of these will be such that they stay with the wheel. Might have to talk to Doug Potts about it.
If they cannot be approved, I'll stick with the std brakes to start off with and then change them afterwards.
Cheers
Michael B
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Dunno, I asked Doug about them and he said he wouldn't give approval for them. Basically because it would put stress on different parts of the wheel etc. This was a couple of years ago so I can't remember all the exact details.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Sun, 25 January 2004 03:28
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Nope, we only got the earlier Starions, not the mucho beefy later ones.
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 26 January 2004 21:06
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| Norbie wrote on Sat, 24 January 2004 15:36 |
I just got back from Boss Wrecking in Brisbane where I finally found a complete MS65 Crown. Complete, that is, apart from the front hubs! AAAARGH!!! I bet someone from this thread is responsible.
I also found an MS123 Crown while I was there, and they're going to pull the rear trailing arm/hub assembly out for me during the week. At least I'm getting somewhere...
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I managed to grab another pair of MS65 front hubs on the weekend, and there was another 2 cars there with the hubs still on (but ran out of time).
No MS123 's tho'.
They seem to be the hard ones to find.
The Widebody Starion rims would look very nice, but to get one here you have to import them from Japan, and they are getting thin on the ground. I looked at one before settling on the Supra.
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 27 January 2004 21:09
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| rsdeo wrote on Wed, 28 January 2004 05:28 |
**REARS**
Here is the info of the rears.
We should be able to find the right bearing to make it all work.
I wonder if the starion axle is the same length and if our rear flange will fit it? We might get lucky.
The plot thickens.
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Good info and it is getting close, but one fatal flaw that I see is the drive flange for the rear drive shaft. The toyota is a 4 bolt design, whereas the Starion appears to be a 6/8 bolt version.
Ed_ma61 has done a lot of work on this and if the combo that he came up with is the only one in Toyota (see website http://www4.tpg.com.au/users/loats/rightframe.html) for details on the front hub swap, so it would be astounding if a Mitsi part fits. Mind you, stranger things have happened  Apparently, some Holden gear fits the Mk2, but we are waiting further info.
Another question - are the rear wheel bearings cup and cone, or are they roller bearings ? The diameters make me think this is the case, and the differences between the sizes make it unlikely that you will find a match - but good luck & keep us posted
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 29 January 2004 02:52
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Mnay thanks again JCMF,
For those that are watching this, please note that the MR2 rear calipers are now not being used, but instead the 300ZX rear twin pots are
Cheers
Michael B
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 29 January 2004 02:56
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No problems mate.
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 29 January 2004 19:31
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**FRONT** update
Z31 hubs '84 to '89 use the same front bearings as the MA61.
Early NA cars were 114.3x4 and all Turbo/late NA cars were 114.3x5.
The Turbo Z31 hubs come in two distinct flavours that are interchangable, but change the disc mounting setup.
'84 to early '87 Z31 hubs have a disc setup that bolts the disc to the rear of the hub like the MKII. Wheel offset for these cars is +20.
Later '87 to '89 Z31 hubs have a disc setup that mounts the disc to the front of the hub like the MKIII. Wheel offset for these cars is +30.
Here is the early setup for NA and Turbo.
Notice the two different hubs.
I picked up a set of early Turbo hubs like the ones in the diagram and they seem to fit perfect on the MA61 strut spindle without any play. I will have to do some checks, but everything looks good.
One thing to remember is just because the offset on the Z31 was +20 and +30 we should not expect the same on the MA61 with the Z31 hubs. It all depends on fender and strut positioning with respect the hub.
I will make some measurements to get some numbers.
Now to work on the rears.
Oh, on a side note I also got one Z31 strut. The design of the strut is similar to ours, but will not mount to the flange on the ball joint of the MA61. Maybe the flange from the Z31 will mount to the MA61 ball joint?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 29 January 2004 21:01
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Hi Raj,
Even more interesting info. If the 300ZX front hub works, it is at least another option (probably not as cheap as the MS65 Crowns) but still another source.
The reas (from the MS123 Crowns) are the hard part generally. There are some around, but the price can vary from AUS$100 per side  to AUS$250 (and that is without any of the brakes !!!!). I managed to get mine for $75 per side, but would not pay much more.
he big problem with the rears is that the wreckers don't want to separate the arms from the hubs (cos they are useless) or it is 'too hard'. But I will keep looking and let you know. I have some spare fronts, but no rears for you yet. When I find some, I'll let you know
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 29 January 2004 21:10
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Michael
I look forward to getting the Toyota parts from you. I'm just trying different things out so anyone over on this side of the Pacific can source parts easily from readily available cars.
If no one tries it we will never know.
Thanks Michael for keepng me posted.
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Fri, 30 January 2004 01:59
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Here is a drawing of the rear axle assembly and lower control arm of the Z31.
Notice the design of the lower control arm. It looks very similar to the MA61. You will also notice that the axle flange is the four bolt version.
Don't know the specs on the bearings yet, but do know they are different from the ones in the MA61.
Just another idea.
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 26 February 2004 20:55
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Hi Raj,
Good work there, but I would consider the discs a little too thin to suit the calipers ideally. 23 vs 30mm is a larger difference than ideal , but having said that, there are ways to overcome that issue pretty easy.
Still trying to get the rear hubs - but not having too much luck. Will keep you posted
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 26 February 2004 20:59
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Oh yeah, almost forgot.
I got my brackets and adaptors back from the machinist yesterday, so will take some piccies and try and mount them on the weekend.
The adapters for the rear hub are sweet, and the way that I have designed them, the engineer has said that there should be no problem.
I'll try and get JCMF to host the pics after the weekend
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 26 February 2004 23:58
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FWIW series 4/5 RX7 calipers are apparently almost identical to R32/Z32 calipers but they are designed for a 25mm disc instead of 30mm... perhaps worth investigating?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Fri, 27 February 2004 00:07
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Thats a good thing as you can purchase pre-made adapters in Japan for next to nothing to fit AE86 struts.
I heard someone saying the Nissan calipers had a larger piston/pad area though.
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Sat, 06 March 2004 07:58
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Michael:
just wondering if you could measure a few things off those subie rotors for me.
im making my caliper adapter to suit both the wilwoods i have currently, as well as the subie ones should i decide to go that way in the future (if it turns out the wilwoods are crap!).
anyway... so far i have:
-326mm dia
-30mm thick disc
-53mm total height
could you please confirm those above measurements, but also advise the following:
-inside dia of braking surface (as measured on the rear of the disc - the inside edge: id imagine its around 200mm or so)
cheers!
ed
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Sat, 06 March 2004 14:22
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| Quote: |
If you are worried about the narrow disc and the Z32 caliper there three solutions.
1. Custom hat for a two piece disc.
2. Shim the pads.
3. Use a caliper from an earlier NA Z32, 1990 only. These used
narrower 26mm thick discs and the caliper does not stick out
as far past the hub as does the 30mm caliper.
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4.Narrowing down the caliper.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Sun, 07 March 2004 09:15
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bump...
michael ?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Sun, 07 March 2004 21:42
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Hi Ed,
I will make some notes tonight for you and make sure I understand what you are after in your second post (too early at the moment)
Cheers
MB
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 08 March 2004 21:26
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Sat, 06 March 2004 18:58 |
-326mm dia
-30mm thick disc
-53mm total height
could you please confirm those above measurements, but also advise the following:
-inside dia of braking surface (as measured on the rear of the disc - the inside edge: id imagine its around 200mm or so)
cheers!
ed
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Yep.
Yep.
Uh huh.
Inside dia of braking surface is 196mm
Centre Hat OD = same as MS65 hub OD (couldn't measure accurately enough)
Centre Hat ID = 148mm dia
Distance from inboard friction surface of disc to surface below MA61 caliper mounts is 16mm
These measurements make sense to me 
Distance from outboard face of MA61 Caliper mount to centre hat surface below MA61 caliper mounts is ~ 10mm (I'm sending you some photos this morning to show a 9mm (std height) hex nut in that spot and it has about 1mm clearance).
After playing with the prototype mounts, I am slightly revising my front caliper mount so that I can use a Dome Head Allen Key bolt and tap the mount (this also helps with clearance issues) & helicoil (maybe).
Can you host the photos for me Ed ?
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 09 March 2004 03:01
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 09 March 2004 08:26 |
After playing with the prototype mounts, I am slightly revising my front caliper mount so that I can use a Dome Head Allen Key bolt and tap the mount (this also helps with clearance issues) & helicoil (maybe).
Can you host the photos for me Ed ?
Cheers
Michael B
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excellent! it looks like i can make hats for my wilwood rotors, and subsequently make caliper mounts to suit - all such that if i choose to later, i can install the subie rotors directly without further moification.
yes i will happily host pics and post em up, though i suspect nathan will prolly want to add them to his funky page design aswell.
as for helicoils - are the brackets made out of 6061 or something? if so they NEED to be helicoiled for engineering.
cheers mate
and thanks again!
ed
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 09 March 2004 05:06
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 09 March 2004 14:01 |
| bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 09 March 2004 08:26 |
After playing with the prototype mounts, I am slightly revising my front caliper mount so that I can use a Dome Head Allen Key bolt and tap the mount (this also helps with clearance issues) & helicoil (maybe).
Can you host the photos for me Ed ?
Cheers
Michael B
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excellent! it looks like i can make hats for my wilwood rotors, and subsequently make caliper mounts to suit - all such that if i choose to later, i can install the subie rotors directly without further moification.
yes i will happily host pics and post em up, though i suspect nathan will prolly want to add them to his funky page design aswell.
as for helicoils - are the brackets made out of 6061 or something? if so they NEED to be helicoiled for engineering.
cheers mate
and thanks again!
ed
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Good to hear that it will work well.
The Wilwood rotors will be retty good on your car and their weight is a bonus. Personal experience is that at a Track like Mallala (VERY hard on brakes), they will last about 4 - 6 months (depending on the car), whereas a set of Alcon/AP rotors will last about 12 - 18 months.
I was about to send the pics to Nathan, but they didn't transfer on the CD properly, so I'll try again tonight.
The brackets are made from 2024-T3. The helicoiling was a personal preference, but still need to investigate my options. What was your reference that the alloy has to be helicoiled for engineering ?
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 09 March 2004 06:40
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yes, alloy needs to be helicoiled if you plan on tapping a thread into it...
looking foward to new pics
PS - i also got a new camera, so ill have some soon (as soon as the project gets off paper - pity you guys cant open .tcw turboCAD docs 
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 09 March 2004 06:50
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I can...but why don't you take a screenshot of them and show us.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 09 March 2004 06:58
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ok i will
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 09 March 2004 06:59
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See, I have useful ideas SOME of the time
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 09 March 2004 07:34
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let me know if anyone would like the dimensions
top picture is the relative position of the hub (far left) the disc (middle) the stock caliper position (also middle to right of disc) and caliper (far right)
bottom picture is the rotor hat, for use wil wilwood UL 32 vane curved 310x32mm 8 on 7" rotors, to make them the same offset at stock STi 326mm rotors.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Tue, 09 March 2004 21:25
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JCMF & Ed,
Pics are on their way
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 08 April 2004 03:15
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Just an update on the latest happenings.
It has been a while, but our 19 month old daughter has had some issue with me working in the shed !~!!!!
Anyway, the front struts and LCA's weer cleaned up, new bushes inserted, Koni shocks fitted, King Lows added and installed. teh front hubs were then cleaned, new bearings added, discs mounted and then ready to install.
Shite. They don't fit. Due to the greater offset of the disc, the rear friction face fouls on the outer edge of the LCA.
The plan is to (after discussions with Ed_ma61) install some RA60 struts and see where it all mounts up and then if need be, take some meat off the back of the hubs to get the requisite clearance.
Oh well, that's what happens when you try and do something a little different and don't check EVERYTHING !!!!
The rear arms are also now out and the plan is to get the rear camber mod as engineered by Paul Pyvvarra done at the same time.
When I work out how to get a website going, I'll host some pics myself
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Wed, 14 April 2004 16:46
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Well, the good news is that the RA60 struts worked a treat, and add about 2.5 degrees neg camber for free as well.
Not bad for about 2 hours work and $40 bucks !!!!!
The project rolls on ever so slowly........
Stay tuned for some more fun as it gets bolted together
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Wed, 14 April 2004 23:11
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i love how i get to come up with the ideas and watch someone else do all the hard work 
great news that those damn things fit!!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Thu, 15 April 2004 00:10
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So am I
Thanks once again
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Wed, 19 May 2004 03:58
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Well, the rear arms with the MS123 stubs are now in and look like they were meant to be there.
One issue to note for those doing this conversion as well, is that the drive flanges (that connect to the drive shafts) need to be the MA61 units as the MS123 has a different machining profile, for which the MS123 driveshafts do not fit in (the bolt pattern is the same though).
I'll try and get some of the pics up soon once it is all completed...... finally getting close though 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conversion for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!!
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Mon, 31 May 2004 01:04
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| Jayem wrote on Tue, 16 December 2003 21:20 |
I think you should really consider using MB brake shoes and MA61 drum internals. Might prove to be much easier than you think. Compare MA61 and MB brake shoes. In easiest case it would be just drilling couple holes.
BTW. MB rotor doesnt need re-drilling. I filed 0.2mm from outer side of the hole and it fitted like fist in the eye. Vito rotor isnt otherwise very usable in my case.
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so whats the story with the rear rotors guys?
baccchhhhhyyy - just PMd you about where and how to buy, but has anyone looked at the brak shoe grind issue yet? jayem, how did you end up fitting yours? any info about the merc shoes?
im keen to see how you guys did the rears!
cheers
ed
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conversion for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!!
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Mon, 31 May 2004 01:27
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Re the rear rotors.
I did no machining or filing at all to get them to fit on the rear stubs. They fit beeeaaaaauuuttttiiiifffffuuulll.
Re the shoes though. My plan was to do a bit of minor surgery on the upper pivot point and lowere adjuster contact point (take about 1 - 2mm off each side. It is not worth trying to grind the shoes as there is already stuff all meat on them.
I might have a look at the merc shoes though, it may be worth a try.
I'll respond to your PM tomorrow Ed as I am aout to knock off after 13 hours at work, and I still have to post some gear for BlackSupra nd wilbo666
Ooorooo
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 02:58
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What exectly is the issue with the rear disc and the drum brake shoes? Are you using the MS123 rear discs? Would using redrilled MA61 discs and calipers work?
It should just be a matter of drilling four new holes and using one of the existing ones.
Is the offset of the MS123 stub axle the same as the MA61 stub axle? If so the above should work...
I guess I'll find out once the parts arrive.  Then I can see about what to use over here and possibly retrofitting the BBK I have.
Please keep us posted
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 03:02
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yeah, thats the easiest option by far.
thing we're looking at though is using 300mm merc rotors which run a ~2mm different dia internal hand brake drum shoe.
im thinking of ditching the whole idea to be honest though, and just using either new ma61 rotors redrilled (s you suggested) with a slightly better caliper, or perhaps the ms123 rear rotors (which have the corrcet drilling) but have a 'slight' offset issue...
well see...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 03:08
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Still going? Good to see this is working a treat.
So which rotors did you use Michael?
If Merc, why not just radius grind the MA61 shoes and amputate them by the required amount each side of the middle? It's a job you'll only do once - it's not like you'll be going through heaps of internal drum shoes.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 03:14
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the merc rotors are also an awkward 22mm thickness ... calipers are a tad difficult to find that suit. though installing some fronts from something onto the rear is a possibility.
imho though, the ~270mm rears arent bad, and if you got a good disc with a decent twin piston caliper, i think it would pull up just fine.
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 12:41
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| Quote: |
jayem, how did you end up fitting yours? any info about the merc shoes?
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Frankly said, been too busy lately so I havent had any progress. I have kept this as a side project anyway. Front brakes are a different story...
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 13:41
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| gianttomato wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 13:08 |
Still going? Good to see this is working a treat.
So which rotors did you use Michael?
If Merc, why not just radius grind the MA61 shoes and amputate them by the required amount each side of the middle? It's a job you'll only do once - it's not like you'll be going through heaps of internal drum shoes.
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It is coming along well, although much slower than I'd like.
The only thing holding up progress is the rear hadbrake shoes and brakelines to be made for front and rear.
The reason for not looking at radius grinding the shoes is that ther is about 1.5 to 2mm of meat on the shoes that have come out of the car.
The idea is to remove 1 - 2mm off each of the upper pivot point (by filing the shoe) and lower adjustment recess (where the adjustable screw fits in) and get it to fit that way. I have already had a good look at this and I reckon is the easiest way.
I priced new Merc handbrake shoes to fit, and it is $95 for the shoes and clips/springs etc. They don't have any in stock, so I can't look at them to see if they are adaptable. 
The 300ZX twin pot rear calipers slide straight on (even though they are designed for an 18mm disc) but with minimal clearance that will be fixed with some careful grinding just to give a bit more space. It is not required though. 
There are two main reasons for going for the Merc rear discs, and that is I can use the twin pot rear calipers to match to the fronts (thereby reducing and hopefully elininating the need for a bias valve), they are heaps cheaper than MA61/MS123 rear discs (the Merc ones were $76.45 each, and MA61 plain ones were $190 each from memory). Also, they are bigger !!!!
Having said all of the above and been through some of the shit that I have as well, I would have done things differently again if starting out. However, I will end up with a very good braking package which was the initial goal , as the car will see some track time at Mallala which is VERY VERY hard on brakes.
I can't wait to get it back on the road, it has been too long already .....
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 14:00
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i must say im greatly enjoying riding the wake of your progress micheal. (oh, i did get your PM but i have no phone atm... sorry!)
how exactly does modifying the shoe anchor points change the effective radius of the shoe? thats got me baffled!
anyway, regarding the rear rotors and calipers, ive got a sneaking suspicion that my wheels wont have clearance for a caliper that protrudes too far outwards from the disc face. they are such a deep dish rim that the inner face of the wheel's spokes is going to get quite close to the rotor - esp if i dont go for a rotor of significantly larger diameter (thus pushing the caliper out from the hub centre 20-30mm). grrr
as mentioned above, im swaying towards just redrilling some ma61 rotors and go some good calipers. depends on what kind of final package i can put together. i personally think a good caliper on the 268's will work effectively with the front. i just see too many issues creeping up with these merc rotors.
im trying to get my hands on some st205 rear calipers to see how far they stick out (also match the front - good bias). its going to be close:
concerning the fronts, baccchhhhyyyy i got your pics, and im appy with the clearances youve opened everything up to. im not sure i can sacrifice 7mm off the hub, but perhaps 6 is doable (should be ok). just waiting on some quotes for rotors and hopefully ill be dropping by the machinist in the next few weekends.
then to pull the rears apart. i fucked one of the threads on the end of the hub spline getting one out of a rear ms123 trailing arm (with a sledge hammer - the nut didnt protect it!) so i have to go wrecker shopping again
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 14:02
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Mon, 31 May 2004 23:41 |
Having said all of the above and been through some of the shit that I have as well, I would have done things differently again if starting out.
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such as?
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Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)
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Mon, 31 May 2004 14:22
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 01 June 2004 00:00 |
i fucked one of the threads on the end of the hub spline getting one out of a rear ms123 trailing arm (with a sledge hammer - the nut didnt protect it!) so i have to go wrecker shopping again
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Next time leave the nut on the outer edege of the stub and use a large spike on the end of the stub. If there is a recessed center area in the center of rhe stub enb like the MA1 stub this should work fine. I did this on my '83 once to replace the bearings and it worked fine.
Another thing to try is two nuts locked onto each other on the end of the stub if there is room. This will protect the threads more.
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