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Location:
Rockhampton, QLD
Registered:
January 2004
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AE86 + SR20DET
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Mon, 26 January 2004 17:09
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any one here done it?? much work involved?? what times would it run??
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Mon, 26 January 2004 17:14
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prob heard this but look it up in the search's. i've found stuff there b4. SR20 is a big job comparied to the GZE. need new box, mounts, pos brake boster, bigger disc's. lot's of stuff. times? well one guy at the nat had am SR in his ke20 and it was stock apart fom cooler and BOV, he showed me a time sheet for 11.83. so around that mark with lots of room for improvement. But do you wanna put a nissan motor in you toyota?
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Location:
Rockhampton, QLD
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Mon, 26 January 2004 17:38
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Hatchi Roku = best drift car
SR20 = best drift engine
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 00:39
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The sr20 is good only beacuse it is in silvia's not because it is a good engine.
Brad
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Location:
qld
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 00:54
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the sr20 is too tall, with its rocker arm type valve acutation and what not. of course the conversion has been done, but i know of one that used spacers to lower the engine cross member. i doubt this would pass engineering, or favourably affect handling, i expect it would create an even lower roll centre, which is not what you want. ( i am pretty sure the lower control arm pivot points are attached to the cross member, unfortunately my sprinter is stored around 100km's away, so i cant just go check.)
you said "best drifter" well apart from that not being the case, drift = handling, so you really want to be improving handling, not vice versa.
and best drift engine, well maybe, but only because its in the most popular, and one of the best drift suitable cars. its really not that awesome of an engine, plus its over priced.
if you want big power in youre sprinter, just use a ca18, you could get more power then you would ever need in an ae86 chassis from one of them. but then you could get a 1.8t s13 for less than the price of a ca converted sprinter anyway.
those are my oppinions anyway.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 01:36
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"the sr20 is too tall, with its rocker arm type valve acutation and what not. of course the conversion has been done, but i know of one that used spacers to lower the engine cross member. i doubt this would pass engineering, or favourably affect handling, i expect it would create an even lower roll centre, which is not what you want. ( i am pretty sure the lower control arm pivot points are attached to the cross member"
1. The sr20 is not that tall if mount far back , mounted on the stock subframe there is 1cm between the bonnet and the front of the rocker cover if different engine mounts are used .
2. Spacers made from the correct matter can be used , and are engineer-able . But this doesn't have to be used if you compare a few toyota cross members .
3. Roll centre on the sprinter subframe is only correct at standard ride height , so any lowered sprinter will require the roll centre changed anyway . Easy if the s13 hubs are used there have a 30cm lower arm ball joint pivot point .
"you said "best drifter" well apart from that not being the case, drift = handling, so you really want to be improving handling, not vice versa."
4. Easy , do the conversion with the engine in the correct place and get the car back to the correct weight split , the gearbox is the heavy part . Mine has a 53/47 split . car weight 952kg full tank of fuel .
And about the engine , if its no good , why do so many people use it , and cost . get a $3000 half cut , sell the parts you don't need , engine box should leave you at $2200ish , And anyway if you to go fast it costs .
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Location:
Brisvegas
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 03:40
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eike, have you given this much thought?
the ae86 is all about handling...it is a good drift car but not the best...weight distribution from the factory is 53/47 (which will be slightly upset by the sr20) while rx7 series 4/5 are slightly better
improvedae86:i think what slydar was trying to say is that there isnt much difference between sr20 & ca18 when it comes to power usage in a sprinter. You'll turn your chassis into a knotted roll before you get anywhere near close to maxing out either engines potential. The ca18 would just be easier (& imo cheaper)to massage in
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4. Easy , do the conversion with the engine in the correct place and get the car back to the correct weight split , the gearbox is the heavy part . Mine has a 53/47 split . car weight 952kg full tank of fuel
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how did you measuire this? is it with an sr20?
eike, think about why you are doing this...what do you want as the end result? do you want a big hp drift monster? if so you may need to rethink a few things. Im not bagging out your idea as it does have merit im just saying you need to weigh up the pro's AND cons before choosing
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 05:15
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NickAE86
Yes that is with the sr fitted and has been running for some time now , the car is off the road atm , getting lighter more adjustable suspension and another brake package and stronger diff , fibreglass panels etc , so i expect the weight to be well down from there . The pros and cons , well i pro is its reliable big hp for cheap , the con is the complete car has to be rebuild to handle the power , i don't know about knotting the chassis , and what point of hp does this happen ? any ideas , i haven't seen this yet . then the body is not all standard . Must add some more boost then and see how much it can take ... But what is all this drift stuff , some people do use tracks for there main use , and yes if you wanted to drift it sure could do that . Do you have a sr power sprinter as well ?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 05:17
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| purpleminiep wrote on Tue, 27 January 2004 11:39 |
The sr20 is good only beacuse it is in silvia's not because it is a good engine.
Brad
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hahaha. ahh, yeah right. Needs to be in a silvia to be good?
The SR20DET is one hell of a strong engine.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 05:29
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You dont need a lot of power to drift, simon-rx7 uses a 4age in his 86.
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Location:
Brisvegas
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 05:41
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i don't know about knotting the chassis , and what point of hp does this happen
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there is no set point, it depends on the condition of the car/chassis...if i was pushing out 220hp atw or more i'd wanna get in and do some seam welding along the chassis just so the rail wont twist and ruin a car you've spent so much time and money in building up
952kg with sr20 and a full tank of fuel? i was fairly certain the dry weight from the factory was around the 950kg mark...can anyone clarify?
no mine isnt sr powered...slowly but surely fitting a 4agte  just waiting on g/box to be complete
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Location:
Sacramento, CA, United St...
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 05:42
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SR20DET+AE86=FUN
Trust me I have one in my 72 Celica. Do what you want man, it's your car.
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Location:
Brisvegas
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 05:48
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You dont need a lot of power to drift, simon-rx7 uses a 4age in his 86
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totally agree but a lot more skill is involved...it becomes easier the more power you have...can maintain drift, speed and enter/exit corners faster with less effort
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 06:07
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yer a std sr20t will shit on any std 4ag ze and 20v
just costs abit more to fit
but thats the price u pay for more hp
just remember more hp means more stress means more breakages
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 06:44
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I am sure that anything beyond 400hp is capable from a 86 without major work. But hell. Sr20 is kinda overkill but damn it is one freakin fast car!!! I know!!!
the only way to get the body to warp or deform. Would take an absolute dick or one rough fukka launching it at the drags.
Personal taste. Just do it. If something breaks let us know about it .
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Location:
Brisvegas
Registered:
June 2003
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 08:45
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sure, takes more skill to drift with less power, but at the same time it can be an easier car to drive hard and at its limits then something with bulk hp.
that said, if people want to do it im no0t gonna knock them, Im a 4age fanatic and you wont see me going forced induction but thats just me
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Location:
qld
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 13:26
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as stated, my oppinion.
improvedae86 ive read your posts, youre on a different level than the guy asking the q's. the sr20 swap i know off used spacers, yours doesnt, good work  (i am not being sarcastic) but what youve acheived is a much more precise conversion, requiring alot more work shop time, skill and knowlege. youre also obviously quite a dedicated tuner, with youre referances to strut conversions/chassis mods/fibre glass panels.
T APLUS 22, i dont know if you were quoting me there or not, but if you were, you took it well out of context. i really dont think the sr20 is so awesome, they are said to get bore flex at around 400hp(jun use bore liners for any engine they build above this power level, ofcourse there are many cars making this amount of power and more without, but if they use liners, its something to think about) and rocker arms are just gay, anyone who knows anything about engines knows bucket and shim valve acutation is the go and hydro a close 2nd(of common production engines). these are two engineering short falls i myself would not be willing to pay 3k (as improved quoted for a front cut) for.
as far as the chassis.. have a look at every 2nd ae86 firewall to chassis rail juncture..
i just think the ca is more suited, in MOST situations, if it isnt, chances are, you wouldnt be here asking if it has been done (you would know) or if it could be (you would know it has been done many times before, and anything really is possible) and what times it would run, ( its not a relavent question, depends on the tune)
i guess i am just the voice of realism and "common sense", if there is such a thing in car modification.
throw that out the window and id be driving a flip fronted front chassis'd, 7A20GTE'd, PRB bell housing to quaife 6 speed sequential sierra dog boxed, welter weight type cast aloy quick change rear end with push rod acutated coilover'd ae86 on billet arrow wheels.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 21:58
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whoa dude. I was quoting purplemini or whatever his name was...it said there in the post. I was quoting him, then adding my own two cents. Don't know what you mean by taking it out of context.
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 22:23
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What i was saying was they are so popular and supported by the aftermarket industry because they are in a very popular car. If you look at the 3sgte which is its closest competitor it has a huge difference in parts availability and i think this is because it was never offered in a rwd platform. I do not have a huge amount of faith in these engines. Sure you can make serious power with them but this often rquires alot of machine work and extra parts that send the rebuild bill through the roof. I know there are exceptions to the rule and conratulations to those people whos sr20 has stayed together.
Brad
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 27 January 2004 22:25
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What i was saying was they are so popular and supported by the aftermarket industry because they are in a very popular car. If you look at the 3sgte which is its closest competitor it has a huge difference in parts availability and i think this is because it was never offered in a rwd platform
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Well clarified. And very good point.the previous post didn't sound much like this is what you meant. peace
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Wed, 28 January 2004 05:38
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"as far as the chassis.. have a look at every 2nd ae86 firewall to chassis rail juncture.."
yer to true , out of my three sprinters , two are only worth modifications , but we should all know how to reinforce that area by now ..
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Location:
Rockhampton, QLD
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Wed, 28 January 2004 13:41
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yeah might just buy an SR20DET 180SX
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Location:
qld
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 29 January 2004 02:41
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bingo, bango. it does make more sense, if thats the type of thing youre after.
"whoa dude. I was quoting purplemini or whatever his name was...it said there in the post. I was quoting him, then adding my own two cents. Don't know what you mean by taking it out of context"
yeah sorry, i was looking for brad as a sign in name anc couldnt find one, so i assumed you just quoted me anc chopped it up a bit. talk about jumping to conclusions (me).
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 06:07
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Tue, 27 January 2004 19:45 |
sure, takes more skill to drift with less power, but at the same time it can be an easier car to drive hard and at its limits then something with bulk hp.
that said, if people want to do it im no0t gonna knock them, Im a 4age fanatic and you wont see me going forced induction but thats just me
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What happened to that way of thinking ? 
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 07:13
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sr20det vs 3sgte????
power wise, there both 2l turbos so wats the diff?
or this wounderfully work of art 
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 09:00
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| rthy wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 17:13 |
sr20det vs 3sgte????
power wise, there both 2l turbos so wats the diff?
or this wounderfully work of art
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there both 86 x 86 (no pun intended) square engines too..anything an SR can do you can make a 3S do..in theory..dunno about the ports and chamber shape..the head has alot to do with it..ie cams..valve size/angle..etc
my 2 cents
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Location:
Korea
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 11:01
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i have seen this conversion alot in Okinawa. Usually the reason people do it because nissan motors are easier to tune. if someone has experiance with toyota motors they build the 3sgte. in my opinon why you are swapping and having to do alot of work, why not keep it toyota.....go with a 1JZ or 2JZ
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 11:22
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my how i changed my way of thinking.... hahaha all it took was one ride, not even a drive, of a turbo drift ae86 car and i was hooked.
as far as im concerned. ive got the SAME balance as i would with a 4age
BTW, CA18's are lighter then SR 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 12:07
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 21:22 |
my how i changed my way of thinking.... hahaha all it took was one ride, not even a drive, of a turbo drift ae86 car and i was hooked.
as far as im concerned. ive got the SAME balance as i would with a 4age
BTW, CA18's are lighter then SR
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fag
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 13:35
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Arrhh I cant believe someone would be so sacreligious as to even consider putting a nissan engine into an 86...
I personally dont like SR20s ive owned one before and never again they sound like truck motors... If your going to the expense of an engine conversion like that go a gen 3 3SGTE or something...
The Difference between the 3S and the SR20???
about 17 years of racing development.. THe 3S has been raced in so many forms and have a better reputation for reliability.
One of the 3SGTE powered Celicas that run in the Pikes Peak Hill Climb (1100hp) is the only vehicle that has run continuesly for three seasons of racing without a rebuild!!!
The nissans tried to use the SR20 for rallying and touring but were unsuccessful...
Even in street circles many people with silvias etc are putting RB engines in there cars
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 13:39
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i re read your post a few times but could not find any point to it?
what was your point again? a 1100hp racing engine is comparable to a street car engine?
im going to go out on a limb and defent the SR20, they can make reliable HP with power all through the rev range for street and track uses, im talking light tune of 400-500 fly hp.
i dont like SR's ether but i dont bag the nissan engine into ae86 idea.
Do toyota make a RWD turbo engine? no
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 13:44
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rwd turbo motor = 1jz, 2jz, 7mgte, 1ggte,
oh your talking about 4 cyl... nope
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 14:39
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Yeah tis true there are no factory 4 cyl RWD turbo motors... However for the cost that an SR20 will cost to put in and engineer in an 86 you can put the equally capable 3sgte... and while the turbo one isnt available as a RWD you can get factory RWD setups for the 3SGTE using factory parts...
You can use the J160 6speed box of the Toyota RS200 (The J160 is the same box nissan use in the S15 silvia) or use the W58 from a RWD SA63 Celica
The idea behind mentioning the racing pedigree of the 3s was to highlight its durability as these Pikes Peak cars used standard production blocks in them...
I think that with 86's stll gaining in popularity and there prices rising steadily it would be a better idea to keep the car wholly toyota...
If you wanted to keep it Period you could do up a 3TGTE a fairly easy conversion and easy to make decent HP...
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Location:
Canberra, ACT
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 16:04
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shims + buckets are king, bugger this follower shit! ever priced a replacement "hydraulic lash adjuster", as nissan calls them, for an sr20? they aren't cheap, and they do fail. not sure about the sr20det but the sr20de certainly uses these... hence the hideously expensive JUN lash killer kit
If I wanted to build a turbo twincam, which I don't, I'd probably start with a Toyota A motor of some kind, possibly a hybrid like billzilla has been plotting for what must be decades now.  They seem to be a nice balance of light weight, available parts, and good design
Seems rather prudent to drift in a slow car first.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Tue, 21 September 2004 23:11
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| stark wrote on Wed, 22 September 2004 00:39 |
Yeah tis true there are no factory 4 cyl RWD turbo motors... However for the cost that an SR20 will cost to put in and engineer in an 86 you can put the equally capable 3sgte... and while the turbo one isnt available as a RWD you can get factory RWD setups for the 3SGTE using factory parts...
You can use the J160 6speed box of the Toyota RS200 (The J160 is the same box nissan use in the S15 silvia) or use the W58 from a RWD SA63 Celica
The idea behind mentioning the racing pedigree of the 3s was to highlight its durability as these Pikes Peak cars used standard production blocks in them...
I think that with 86's stll gaining in popularity and there prices rising steadily it would be a better idea to keep the car wholly toyota...
If you wanted to keep it Period you could do up a 3TGTE a fairly easy conversion and easy to make decent HP...
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My Sr20det conversion has been about half the price of any 3sgte conversion that i know of in this state , i think a few people will agree that for $1500 which is what most engine / box packages cost its cheap for the power . Its now done about 8000kls mostly track kls . And haven't touched it once . Dont even check the oil inbetween services . Mostlys goes to 7300 , now the exhaust is sorted and a good air filter pushes 170rwkw allday . And remember is really a track car so costs and using standard parts have been used because it could be a worthless pile of metal at any stage . I have seen ae86's with paint jobs and wheels which cost more than the car has .
As for your way of thinking ,
The 6spd box is a pile of crap most serious sr people be it in silvias or other vehicles dont go anywhere near that box . For starters the twin mass flywheel pull clutch cost three times the normal unit  The box is weaker than the 5spd , 6th gear in so hard to engage fast its useless . Yes i look after a s15 jdm 250hp spec r so i have driven them lots .
And as far as Fatory Toyota parts we all know there a rip off , and the skill level of Toyota parts in the country is crap  those people dont know how easy they have got it . As for Nissan genuine parts pricing , theres so much aftermarket parts available nobody is going to pay there price .
Don't get me wrong i would love a 3SGTE with gt500 or Pikes peak output but theres noway a W58 is going to handle that power . The r154 is a hard to fit needing the clutch system turned into a internal slave to fit in the tunnel , not to mention the price of the box to start with .
And to think all i did was bring up a old thread to shit a mate Simon your fault as normal OK go back to the 4age
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Wed, 22 September 2004 02:20
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haha if i had the money i'd build a tough worked 4age with a nice HKS 2510 on the side
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Wed, 22 September 2004 03:05
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| ae95 wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 23:44 |
oh your talking about 4 cyl... nope
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3T-GTE.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Wed, 22 September 2004 08:11
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SR20DET is a massively overpriced engine in my books, and my god do they sound terrible. Norbie's quote sums it up perfectly:
If i was to plunge money into PMP-80Y (basically an AE86 with better chassis strength <--- thats going to cause some fun!), i would most likely use any of the following:
NISSAN:
# CA18DET - conversion kits available CHEAP. better engine in my opinion than SR20, lighter, revvier, and more suited to a lightweight RWDer
TOYOTA:
# 4A-GTE - cheap, easy, light, factory bolt in, parts GALORE - damn strong is using GZE pistons
# 1G-GTE (gen3)- i have seen around 140kW atw from several stock 1g's with boost, and MUCH more from worked ones. And at $750 for an engine package, your an idiot if you DONT use one at least once
# 3S-GTE (gen3) - shedloads of fudging around, but the end result is something with pooploads of power + torque, smooth rev's, toyota goodness, LIGHTWEIGHT and not much bigger than a 4A!
Given if i had a few spare grand (about $4-5k) i would most certainly be looking at the 1G.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Wed, 22 September 2004 09:01
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 22 September 2004 12:35 |
| ae95 wrote on Tue, 21 September 2004 23:44 |
oh your talking about 4 cyl... nope
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3T-GTE.
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exactly what i was thinking, i drove one in a factory corona, went about the same as a stock ca18det...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Wed, 22 September 2004 09:43
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3tgte is hardly a worthy engine
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Wed, 22 September 2004 09:57
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| ae95 wrote on Wed, 22 September 2004 19:43 |
3tgte is hardly a worthy engine
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I beg to differ... Ive been in a few (as well as own) a few 3tgte powered cars... There are quite a few in aus running around with 400bhp+
Far more power than the stock little ae86 frame could handle...
The engine is also from the same era as the 86 and would look the part...
There are a few sprinters getting around perth ive seen with 3T's in em...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 04:05
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yeah
im not saying they dont go alright im just saying they dont compare to the likes of ca's,sr's and gze's
also theyre getting a bit old these days and theyre too heavy for a well handling ae86
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 04:09
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i have driven both numerous times...3tgte - stock
and ca18det - stock....
i would have to say they are similar engines, and considering the 3t's age it is really good, it seems to have a bit more torque than the ca, and the ca likes the revs...but otherwise drivability and power are very similar...
3t's are tough, and i like em! and they are toyota!
ca18....well they are a good engine...and newer and it often shows and they have far far more bolt on parts....\
in my opinion they are an equal choice....depending on car...
DEFINITELY a worthy consideration...
all you have to do is find one...good luck...
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 05:13
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if i had my chance again i would put a CA18DET in my 86..simply becos all i would have to do different to the ZE conversion is tailshaft and engine mounts..and i know the g/box will take the punishment..not to mention the abundance of after market bits for them..
it prolly would have worked out cheaper to...
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 05:19
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| ae95 wrote on Thu, 23 September 2004 14:05 |
yeah
im not saying they dont go alright im just saying they dont compare to the likes of ca's,sr's and gze's
also theyre getting a bit old these days and theyre too heavy for a well handling ae86
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Too heavy????
Dry Weights (Includes manifolds and turbos, Supercharger where applicable)
SR20DET 162KG
CA18DET 155KG
4AGZE 154KG
3TGTE 155KG
A lot of poeople now choose the CA18DET over the SR20 as they rev better... (Much nicer in keeping with the character of the 86. The SR20 and CA18 both have square designs 86 * 86 and 83* 83 respecivly
Despite their 1.8 litre capacity the 3TGTE has a shorter stroke than the CA18 and therefore has an even better propensity to rev 78 * 85.
The 3TGTE also keep withing the period and character of the car and can be easily made to produce very good hp numbers.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 05:42
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A guy i know had one in his ae86 and complained about the front heavy characteristics with the 3tgte
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 05:52
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| ae95 wrote on Thu, 23 September 2004 15:42 |
A guy i know had one in his ae86 and complained about the front heavy characteristics with the 3tgte
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Hmm Ive driven two 86's with 3TGTE's in em and didnt notice any handling problems... It could be that your mate didnt mount the engine as far as he could in the engine bay...
I have been in an SR20 powered 86 and that was aweful.. although it had torque the engine just didnt rev like it should... And that was very front heavy.
I think that one of the best characteristics of an 86 is how it makes power together with the handling. Hence the popularity of the CA18det conversion.. however you can get exactly the same result with a 3TGTE... Go the toyota powerplant int he toyota I say
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 06:43
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at the moment im leaning towards a 4agze in my ae86
wana try and talk me out of it?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 08:39
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| ae95 wrote on Thu, 23 September 2004 16:43 |
at the moment im leaning towards a 4agze in my ae86
wana try and talk me out of it?
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nah cos you've got the right block, you just need to change the thing that makes the boost, S/C out, turbo in!!
much more fun, more scope for power, plus that shove it'll give you in the back!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 08:41
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exactly
later down the track though when i can afford a HKS 2510 and some other goodies 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Thu, 23 September 2004 23:35
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I think your all loosing the point of adding a turbocharged engine to a car . Its not n/a , so why rev the crap out of it to get power ? This isn't needed with correct tuning of turbocharged engine , sure if you do lots of work to any engine you can increase the rpm range .
But with huge amounts of torque acceleration of a light car in any gear will soon have you not bothering to down change , rev the engine for a short space of time before to next gear . All for no gain in acceleration ! might as well stayed in a higher gear and put the foot down . Just compare some lap times where at one corner the gearing is not really correct for second due to having to almost change mid exit . Then next session keep the car in third gear , you will see the difference .
As with the weight of the engine , who is going to keep all the accessories . Has anyway weighed the sr on scale pads front to rear balance ? then add the gearbox and weigh it vs say a 4ac . Very funny results . Then there engine placement , nobody should be adding the sr into the toyota engine position . But every conversion i has seen has been done like this .
As much as you bag the sr20det , in this state the 120y which won improved production had a backyard budget had a sr20det {now imagine the balance of that }.
And in 2 litre sport sedan class the most rounds this year have been won by sr20de powered cars . Even if the engines are in Alfas etc .
At club level the fastest two wheel drive car is a s15 , looking at the times the car has to have about 450-500hp , and if you here it down any straight you will hear its never reved above say 6500rpm . Its times are just a few seconds slower than a 600hp gtr , which on a good day is as quick as the v8 supercars .
SR20DET
CA18DET
4AGZE
3TGTE
Out of the above mentioned engine , what ones are winning in anykinds of motorsport today , not in the past when huge amounts of cash where poured into the development . Add money and you can redevelop again engine to be better , if not good .
But above the engine just engine you choose , just remember its a dated chassis . And that where the most work needs to be done .
Whos car was that your where in Stark ? Since i know mostly every sr ae86 owner i am interested .
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Fri, 24 September 2004 02:36
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Both cars are in perth.. The first was a red Levin... I never met the owner I was given a ride by one of the mechanics at MAD Enhancements in Osbourne Park (The guys that were doing the conversion). The other was a gold levin owned by Peter Mitchell (Although the gold one was a track car and not registered.)
The Red one was pretty bad as the engine was too far foward and upset the balance of the car.. The gold one seemed to have been done right where the crossmember was modified and new mounts much further back were made.
Please understand I am not bagging the SR20 as a motor per se. My opinion to put a more revvy motor in one is my preference... My preference is also to keep an engine with the same manufacturer if possible... My argument was along the lines of if it can be done witha toyota donk thenk why not??
As for the whole lots of torque in a light car?? Well I agree with you they are a lot of fun... However this is where you can start twisting chasis' etc.
As stated above I also prefer the character of a revvy nature.. The aforementioned 600hp gtr and even the V8 (by this i mean the v8 supercar series not your garden variety v8) to some extent rely on revs to get its power. This is the same reason the CA18 is a popular swap in an 86...
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Fri, 24 September 2004 05:26
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| ae95 wrote on Thu, 23 September 2004 16:43 |
at the moment im leaning towards a 4agze in my ae86
wana try and talk me out of it?
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i just put one in mine and i'm kinda kicking myself in the balls cos of how easy the CA18DET and box goes in..a much more reliable all round package..
look at it this way..
CA18DET 200cc bigger, already turbo, insane amount of aftermarket bits for them, a strong g/box arleady come behind them, for the sake of a few $$ for some engine and g/box mounts...
and the front cuts are readily avalible and cheaper!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Fri, 24 September 2004 08:19
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yeah im trying to keep it toyota though
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Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Fri, 24 September 2004 08:41
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well for what it's worth... I'm doing the exact opposite of you guys. For you, it's an AE86+SR20. For me, it's a 510+3SGTE...
different strokes for different folks (but they are both the same 86 mm stroke, unless I spring my head onto a 5SFE 2.2 lower end!)
As far as the SR20 goes, I think it's a good motor up to about 400ish HP, then the 3SGTE beats it hands down, up to about 700HP, then the 3SG block breaks...
Also, the Pikes Peak car DID NOT use a 3SGTE, it used a 503E motor from TMC/TRD that Toyota sometimes used to badge as a 3S-G, or a 3S-GTM - it is sort of kinda of similar looking to a 3SGTE, but it really has almost NOTHING to do with a 3SG motor...
Toyota 3S-GTM 4-in-line, water-cooled, blown. 89.0mm x 86.0mm / 2,140cc. Single Toyota twin-entry CT44-ST turbocharger. Linerless iron block, aluminum head. 5 plain main bearings. Steel crankshaft. Steel con rods. ART light alloy 3-ring pistons. Toyota rings. DOHC, belt driven. 4 valves/cylinder (36.1m inlet – 31.5mm exhaust), 1 plug. Nippon Denso ignition, injection and engine management system. Compression ratio 7.0:1. Borg & Beck triple-plate clutch. Unstressed chassis member. 680 bhp at 8,500 rpm. Weight 140 kilograms.
[Updated on: Fri, 24 September 2004 08:43]
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Fri, 24 September 2004 10:18
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hrrmmm that sounds like the motor i just put into my mums celica.....jokes i wish!
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Fri, 24 September 2004 16:00
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Currently doing a 3SGTE conversion on an 86 and after doing CA18's and SR20's before this is WAY harder. If you were paying a workshop to do it then there is no way you would choose the 3S route unless keeping it Toyota meant a whole lot to you (ie meant about $3000-4000 to you).
CA's go in easily. SR's take a lot more thought at the engine placement stage which is incredibly important as the difference in the end result is huge. No point having a fire breathing 86 that doesnt go around corners.
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Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: AE86 + SR20DET
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Sat, 25 September 2004 11:04
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Tue, 27 January 2004 19:45 |
sure, takes more skill to drift with less power, but at the same time it can be an easier car to drive hard and at its limits then something with bulk hp.
that said, if people want to do it im no0t gonna knock them, Im a 4age fanatic and you wont see me going forced induction but thats just me
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Gee, times sure have changed
Given in to the darkside! 
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