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Location:
Posts: 992738234
Registered:
February 2004
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 Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Tue, 10 February 2004 07:36
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Hey i wanna spend about 2-3k on a soundsystem but im clueless to what is good/bad, id like quality and atleast 1sub or even to 12's or 2 good 10's guys out there help??
Thanks, Nate
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Tue, 10 February 2004 07:52
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if u have nothing,
then get a pioneer HU with MP3 and a front/rear/sub output, dont worry about the "4x40w" shit, u shouldnt use them, no less than $350 and not more than $700
get a decent pair of front splits for about $400 or so, no more than about $600 ....my mate got a apir of alpine type r splits for his lander and they are LOUD, and they cost $500 with 50WRMS
rear 6's or 6x9's maybe about $200-$250, pioneer make good ones or maybe rockford
then get a alpine V12 amp 5 channel about 50x4 and 180x1 {for sub} up to maybe 70x1 and 250x1
and get a sub/box combo for no less than $300 upto $600.
and get a good wiring pack like a fusion/streetwires kit for about $150, this will include all u need for the car but u may need more for the front speakers,
u should be able to get away for about $1800 for parts only, and if u cant do it then spend wisely on installation,
personal note I wouldnt buy xplod, but if the rest is out of range then get the 6x9s only, dont get a xplod sub/amp
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Location:
Posts: 992738234
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Tue, 10 February 2004 08:13
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nah ive seen xplod, they suck teh meja cawk! lol, if i had a civic mabey!!!!!
How much is insterlation?? cause all this would be going into my sexy ke70 in the near future!
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Tue, 10 February 2004 08:18
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I agree with philmelvin... Alpine is fantastic equipment (but costs a small fortune) but is worth it.
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Location:
Posts: 992738234
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Tue, 10 February 2004 08:28
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thanx guys, what about "digital designs" subwooofers
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 04:40
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I noticed the other day that Alpine has some Speaker+amp packages etc.
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Location:
Brisvegas
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 05:04
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hu:pioneer, alpine, eclipse
splits: cant go past focal for clarity...shit all over alpine dd drive
subs: depends how much doof you want..personally i say 2x12" (min 1x12" or 2x10"). alpine are great...even their older vr range are good and you can pick them up cheap. my 2 12" vr put out 138db in a ported box sitting in the back of a vh station wagon...more than i need
amps: alpine, jaycar, fusion,
whatever you do stay away from sony...can get better bang for your buck through other brands
if you can try and save a few dollars by getting some mdf and making the sub box yourself...easy $$$
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Location:
Posts: 992738234
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 05:25
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| NickAE86 wrote on Wed, 11 February 2004 16:04 |
if you can try and save a few dollars by getting some mdf and making the sub box yourself...easy $$$
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My grandpa is a carpenter, he as made a few normal speaker boxes for me out of MDF, but i dont know what sizes the boxes should be and i think i could only go 2 10's in the boot (rolla boot pretty small)...
Thanks, Nate
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 05:28
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Go one 12", I've been happy with it and you don't have to use up all your boot space. 
There is more than enough doof to thump the car around when needed.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 06:07
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hu:pioneer, alpine, eclipse
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Sounds good, I'd go in that order
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splits: cant go past focal for clarity...shit all over alpine dd drive
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Focal = $uber
Alpine DD Drive tend to have a very scratchy top end, but thats personal preference. I personally like the Pioneer yellow ones.
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b]subs: [/b]depends how much doof you want..personally i say 2x12" (min 1x12" or 2x10"). alpine are great...even their older vr range are good and you can pick them up cheap. my 2 12" vr put out 138db in a ported box sitting in the back of a vh station wagon...more than i need
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Def 1x12 for a minimum, go MTX. I've never been impressed by Alpines subs. Pioneers are better (only slightly), but MTX is best bang for buck.
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amps: alpine, jaycar, fusion,
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Stay away from Japanese brand amps, especially Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, Clarion. They under perform for the price you pay.
Cheap good bang for buck is Jaycar, Megavox, Axis. Stay away from Boss at all costs. American amps are much better, with German above that. If you can afford a Signat amp, get it. They are brutal. If you can get Crunch, they are brutal too. MTX is good bang for buck.
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whatever you do stay away from sony...can get better bang for your buck through other brands
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Sony = Bad mmmkay. 100% agreeance here.
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if you can try and save a few dollars by getting some mdf and making the sub box yourself...easy $$$
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Very much so, although, a cheap carpeted box you can pick up for about $60 these days, so its not a huge saving anymore. Unless you want a custom shaped box, then build your own
IMHO, fronts should be 6" splits, rear should be 6" 2 or 3 ways (or splits if you can afford it)
Get a 4x50W RMS amp for the speakers, and about 150W RMS for each sub (ie 75x2, or 40x4 etc)
As far as wiring goes, just head to Jaycar, you can get everything there.
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Location:
Brisvegas
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 06:46
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Stay away from Japanese brand amps, especially Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, Clarion. They under perform for the price you pay.
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really? i've always been told alpine gear in particular is underrated (power wise) on purpose. I have a v12 and its never missed a beat & heaps of my mates have v12's also. But then again i'ver never heard of Signat or Crunch so i guess i cant make the comparison
that is quite true although i only find this to be the case with the polykevlar and utopia range...polyglass is still very attainable & i believe there is a model below that one also polyflex i think
i guess it all depends on how import sound quality is to you and budget of course.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 06:56
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| NickAE86 wrote on Wed, 11 February 2004 14:46 |
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Stay away from Japanese brand amps, especially Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, Clarion. They under perform for the price you pay.
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really? i've always been told alpine gear in particular is underrated (power wise) on purpose. I have a v12 and its never missed a beat & heaps of my mates have v12's also. But then again i'ver never heard of Signat or Crunch so i guess i cant make the comparison
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Nah, it would be partially underrated, but not hugely. Companies like Signat and Crunch tend to be waay under rated (box will tell you 75x4 but testing will reveal over 100x4).
Basically they are guranteeing that under all circumstances, all voltage, all temperature, the amp will produce a minimum of 75x4 (or what ever the box says).
However, Crunch is very hard to get now, as is Hifonics, and several other American brand. Signat is slightly more obtainable, but I havent seen their latest range yet (nobody brings it to WA, only my boss did, and its not cost effective anymore)
I used a V12 when I first got 2 12's. Ran perfectly. Then I upgraded to 2 decent 12's, and I was able to overheat it in literally 5 mins from stone cold operation.
They have balls, but not when you push them hard (as I was)
[Updated on: Wed, 11 February 2004 06:56]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 09:31
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Stay away from Japanese brand amps, especially Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, Clarion. They under perform for the price you pay.
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really? i've always been told alpine gear in particular is underrated (power wise) on purpose. I have a v12 and its never missed a beat & heaps of my mates have v12's also. But then again i'ver never heard of Signat or Crunch so i guess i cant make the comparison
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Nah, it would be partially underrated, but not hugely. Companies like Signat and Crunch tend to be waay under rated (box will tell you 75x4 but testing will reveal over 100x4).
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Alpine's amplifiers are bench tested after assembly and rejected if unable to produce more than their specified power output. The output recorded in testing is printed on a 'birth certificate' and delivered with the amplifier.
Given the gross cost and process inefficiencies that would result from regular amp rejection you can be sure that Alpine's policy overengineers the end product. I remember that a friend was disappointed when his MRD-M500 (500Wx1 RMS) Alpine amplifier birthsheet recorded only 595W RMS as his another he'd seen showed 610W RMS!
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used a V12 when I first got 2 12's. Ran perfectly. Then I upgraded to 2 decent 12's, and I was able to overheat it in literally 5 mins from stone cold operation.
They have balls, but not when you push them hard (as I was)
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When you suggest you were pushing the amp hard and allude to 'decent 12's' I'd suggest that the power demands of a pair of 12" subwoofers driven by a single moderately-rated amplifier would be adequate to push said amp into clipping/overheat protection. I don't think it's fair to say the amp was inadequate; maybe your amp selection was inadequate.
Yes, but as suggested there is lower level product in the marque and you'd probably benefit from engineering skill and brand purity in lower level Focal product not present in upper range Pioneer product at the same price.
I honestly think Pioneer's strength lies in its brand equity and marketing rather than product quality. It's definately not junk, but while not many have heard of Nakamichi, I'd take their entry level offering at $800 than Pioneer's top level offering at the same price. Nakamichi's Japanese too.
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hu:pioneer, alpine, eclipse
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I'd add Clarion to that list, as some of their head units in my mind represent good value. It'd liberate more of your budget for speakers/amps/sound deadening.
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rear 6's or 6x9's maybe about $200-$250, pioneer make good ones or maybe rockford
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rear should be 6" 2 or 3 ways (or splits if you can afford it)
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In a KE70 I'd completely eschew rear fill in favour of liberating more budget for front end, bass drivers, install and sound deadening. Front image is where it's at!
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then get a alpine V12 amp 5 channel about 50x4 and 180x1 {for sub} up to maybe 70x1 and 250x1
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I'd recommend dedicated front/sub amps.
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Location:
Yagoona Sydney
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 13:20
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ok dude my opinion.......... have a mate who works at a very well known place and hes always recommended this for me....... my systems always consist of a very good headunit,a set of 6x9s connected to the deck...... a set of good 6inch speakers with tweeters and crossovers running off the headunit a well known quality subwoofer (12inch) in a tightly sealed box (no air holes) to a good amp........ i recommend the following brands Kenwood for headunits and speakers/tweeters/crossovers, a pioneer sub and FUSION amp.......
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 15:44
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Ok
As of 1-2 years ago, Alpine didnt release certificates stating what each individual produced. If this has changed, I apoligise, I was unaware.
As for the over heating thing, I changed from a an Alpine 40x4 which I overheated in 5-10mins as previously stated, to Pioneer 50x4 which has overheated once since I have owned it, and that was on a 45+ degree C day.
And you can't compare Nakamichi to the rest of Japan. It is far, far, far superior to anything else on the market, although thats a little known fact.
In my opinion (only mine) Clarion has not offered anything worth purchasing them over any other company in a few year (if you understand what I jsut wrote). Pioneer and Alpine (With the exception of Nakamichi) are by far the industry leaders.
And front is all good, providing you have the bass to back it up. There is no point in spending uber amounts of $ on the front if you don't plan to get rears/sub.
Car audio is done in stages.
It usually starts with deck, then sub/amp. then fronts, and finally rears.
That usually provides a good mix over the year it takes to build up a good system. Though, it does depend on the requirements of the purchaser.
And if you ask anybody in the industry who knows what they are talking about, 6x9's and subs don't work well together. If you plan to get subs in the near future, get 6"'s and deal with not having bass for a while. I have enough friends who have gone a while with no bass and have not regretted it after they could finally afford the sub/amp.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 15:52
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What do people think of Eclipse and Audison?
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:16
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What would everyone reccomend for a mk1 mr2? I gotta get around to doin some audio stuff soon. I will be using a Pioneer Deh-4150 deck to start off with. Without cutting to much. so ya 6" dash/4" behind stock holes.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:17
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I will admit that I havent looked into Eclispe Audio, but as far as Audison goes, at about $5000 for the entry level amp, and 0.25ohm stable, its a competitors dream.
Audison is basically the cream of the crop, but it is out of reach for the average (and about average) audiophile. Its only the people who REQUIRE AUDIO PERFECTION that buy Audison.
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:21
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or people with to much money?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:22
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| Clown wrote on Thu, 12 February 2004 00:16 |
What would everyone reccomend for a mk1 mr2? I gotta get around to doin some audio stuff soon. I will be using a Pioneer Deh-4150 deck to start off with. Without cutting to much. so ya 6" dash/4" behind stock holes.
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Everything depends on your final budget.
If you dont plan to spend much more, then 4" splits, and a set of 6x9's will be fine.
If you want to spend more, then a sub, some 6" splits, and some rears will be better.
Car Audio all depends on your budget/preferences.
If you want to race/drag, then dont get amp or subs, just get something that you think sounds good, and be happy with that.
If you want sound, and loud, then extend your budget.
You have an acceptable deck to start with, so go from
Tell us what you are looking for, and we may be able to help you.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:22
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I'm a smacktard.
I had a guy offer to set up my car (that I hadn't even bought at the time) sound system in return for doing his website. I didn't push it, and he decided to do the site himself. He deals in Audison stuff... perhaps I can do a redesign for him? 
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:28
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bugga man!!!
Umm Im not after subs and shit. Just want some loud tunes, and a little bass.
was thinking, Deck, amp, 6" front splits, something for rear in 4" (splits??)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:31
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Where would you even PUT the sub?
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:33
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theres room behind the seats, but then theres no room for the targa tops if ya put them there.
Most people either put them behind the seats or in the front boot
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:34
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I suppose that would give you some more weight up front too. 
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Location:
Ballarat, Vic.
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:37
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hahaha yeah, bloody fronts light as hell 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 16:38
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Hell has weight now? I imagine it would be really really heavy... what with all the damned souls and all.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 22:31
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Firstly if this is going into your ke70 get a good alarm system around $600 , because it will end up cheaper if $3000 worth of stuff suddenly goes missing .
Ok on to the System;
Source Unit : Alpine 9815 / Eclipse CD8061
Front Speaker(s): Boston FS-60 / Diamond M361 / Hertz HSK 165 / Focal 165A / Rainbow SLX 230.03 / Morel Pulse
Sub(s): JL Audio 12W3 / Image Dynamics IDQ12D4.V2
Amplifier(s): Audison SRx5
Cable: Stinger / Phoenix Gold / Audison
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 11 February 2004 22:46
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In my opinion (only mine) Clarion has not offered anything worth purchasing them over any other company in a few year (if you understand what I jsut wrote). Pioneer and Alpine (With the exception of Nakamichi) are by far the industry leaders.
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I guess that while it's not an SQ-focused option, I saw value in an entry-level brand name deck with satisfactory SQ for ~$300 street price.
I think that you may be confusing Pioneer and Alpine as 'marketing leaders' maybe not 'market leaders'. They do have enormous brand equity, sure, and I'm not saying the product is junk at all, the product is good. Just be aware of other options which are not as heavily merchandised and promoted, you may get a better result for less $$, not propping up an advertising budget.
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will admit that I havent looked into Eclispe Audio, but as far as Audison goes, at about $5000 for the entry level amp, and 0.25ohm stable, its a competitors dream.
Audison is basically the cream of the crop, but it is out of reach for the average (and about average) audiophile. Its only the people who REQUIRE AUDIO PERFECTION that buy Audison.
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That's a very broad generalisation. Audison't entry level amplifier does not cost $5000. Audison do a range of amplifiers which retail in $XXX range (<$1000) and are, by all reports, a great product. They do a number of amplifiers which incorporate a two-channel amp and onboard independent monoblock (which does share a power suppply) do deliver a conservative 2x75W and 1X180W for driving a modest system from one amplifier. With even an entry level deck (with one set of pre-outs) this amp (which features good onboard crossovers) could run a whole modest system for less than the cost of two budget amps for front/sub.
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And front is all good, providing you have the bass to back it up. There is no point in spending uber amounts of $ on the front if you don't plan to get rears/sub.
Car audio is done in stages.
It usually starts with deck, then sub/amp. then fronts, and finally rears.
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I agree, I'm not suggesting that you run a Morel $1500 on 450W RMS active front end with nothing but a Clarion 10" to back it up.
Are you suggesting that rear fill is responsible for bass delivery? After this you also said that 6x9's and Subs don't mix. Generally I think this to be because subwoofers will always be cleaner and more powerful in their bass reproduction than an equivilent 6x9" coaxial speaker. Rear fill is responsible for 'filling' the cabin volume with full-range frequencies from your sub LPF freq. (80-150HZ) on up. This fill overcomes a dead spot in the rear where the reproduction from a set of front speakers is inadequate, mainly in larger cars.
I'm suggesting that in a car the size of a KE70 a rear fill arrangement is only going to confuse your front imaging, as the cabin space is small and on a budget of ~$2000 (or really any budget for that matter) in SQ terms rear fill is not only not required, but to be avoided. In your Cressida, of course, it's a different game entirely. Like you said, it all depends on the customer's application.
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Location:
Posts: 992738234
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 06:58
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Hey im still here if anyone was wondering!!!
All the info is good Sh*t i kinda get it but still little
i dont really need lung bursting bass, but id rather go in the directing of clarity over volume, car only weighs 900kg so i dont think amp and sub would be a problem, i listen to rap, rnb, and the radio hope that helps a little bit more!!!
Nate
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 07:11
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Lolz. I thought this was a 3k budget bang for the buck.
Personally. Focal Fronts/DB dynamics get my vote for fronts/speakers.
Amps= JL/Fusion/Alpine
Subbies= JL all the way baby!!! Why get a w3 when u can get a w6 for a little bit more?
BTW who else shares my vote on JL subs. Seems like no one mentioned anything about JL on this thread surprisingly.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 07:51
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Go the PPI amps!
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Location:
Posts: 992738234
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 08:18
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smt_007 wrote on Thu, 12 February 2004 18:48
Also Checkout my ICE Installers previous car $35,000 worth of Car Audio Gear and 8 years development in a ke70 corolla  |
ENJOY .
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pictures of that please!!!!!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 09:15
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Can't be bothered posting big at the moment. But my alpine amps are as follows:
Sub amp rated at 500rms at 2ohm - birth certificate: 576rms
I was happy till septembersquall mentioned a mates rating at 610. 
Stereo amp.
2x110rms: BC: 2x126rms.
And in terms of quality you get what you pay for, so stating that the alpines under perform is flat out Bullshit, and speculation.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 10:44
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Hey ke70_3SGTE, have you seen the ke70 with a sr20det , from the fast fours dvd?.
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Location:
Posts: 992738234
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 11:03
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NO lol 3sgte is better lol
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 11:37
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To figure out the sizes & optimum box design there is a little program called WinISD that is worth looking in to, has all different sub box designs, sealed, vented isobaric(I think)....best of all its free
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Thu, 12 February 2004 12:52
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Head unit - Go for what features you like!!! As long as it has 4v pre-outs for front/rear/sub the amps do all the work.
Amps - Something good, powerful, I like my alpine for the sub (monoblock, cant remember the model number.) I have a pioneer 4X70 running the fronts and rears i reccomend something better, alpine, Rockford fosgate (individually tested and garunteed, good power for your $$$)
Speakers... IMHO no car speakers come close to focals...the only car speakers to ever have won loudspeakers of the year. You get what you pay for, my fronts are polyglass, mate has poly kevlar which sound much better!! rears not so important as the are just fill, i have focal access 3 ways. You pay what you get.
Sub - Talk to someone at one of the shops, subs are actually one of the most variable components, I like rock, so a fairly loose sub is not only acceptable, but better. However if you are more into dance/electronic you want to tighten that sub up.
Dont forget to make sure either the head unit or the amps have adjustable high/low pass filters so that you can set up properly, this is where my pioneer amp lacks.
BTW my system will make your ears bleed before it distorts...mmmmmm bleeding ears.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 18 February 2004 00:26
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[quote title=smt_007 wrote on Thu, 12 February 2004 18:48]| 4AGE wrote on Thu, 12 February 2004 18:11 |
Lolz. I Amps= JL/Fusion/Alpine
Subbies= JL all the way baby!!! Why get a w3 when u can get a w6 for a little bit more?
BTW who else shares my vote on JL subs. Seems like no one mentioned anything about JL on this thread surprisingly.
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Well if u were to be paying 1500 for the JL 1000w x 1.5 ohm amp. I might be wrong for specs. U'd be getting ripped. Thats capable of running 2/3 jl w6 12s. Although the rating is 1000w. Its more like 1300w realistically. Jl underrates their amps and will not pass the amp unless its clearly over the stated reading. Depends on how many subbies u thinking of using. A w6 goes for about 700 bux retail or so. U'd get away with something around 500 bux. Don't hold me to it. But thats what i would do for starters with a 3k budget 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Sound Freaks Help!?!?!?
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Wed, 18 February 2004 01:15
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I would buy my beyond audio X1 12" sub 600wrms and my clarion vnet 4150 for $600 and then get some cheapish 3 way split system for around $500 and a Pioneer MP3 HU for around $600 and installation about $400 and that setup would be sweet!
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