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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Sat, 21 February 2004 02:06
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Howdy all,
after a string of problems/worries with the 18R-GEU since it was installed i am now thinking along the lines of another engine swap down the track when i want turbo power, instead of turboing the 18RGeu.. because for my budget an all-out 18R turbo build-up would be way out of my budget and i want it to be fairly reliable.
Just looking for opinions on this conversion:
Considering SR20t and 3S-Gte, but the SR seems a simpler package to setup because it is already in RWD trim and has a turbo gearbox to match. Both engines will need a lot of custom work to setup in the RA28, ie electrics, but i think the 3S is a similar engine and the extra messing around converting FWD->RWD will not be that beneficial. I want to stick to 4-cyl, because my car already is nose-heavy with an 18R lump of iron.
SR20's are around $1500 with gbox, which is okay considering i spent easily this much on my 18R-GEU fiddling around getting new parts and extras...
Fuel system would not be a big issue because i already have a prepump, bigger lines, surge tank and would just swap to VL-turbo type pump.
I think the exhaust side on SR20 is the same as 18R? meaning exhaust will be easy..
diff and driveline is okay, custom shaft with either hilux diff or corona F series.. corona/pug front disc upgrade..
Just need to work out what other issues there would be with setting up the SR20 in an RA2x? we would use an aftermarket computer..
Has anyone done this conversion or something similar? what problems/issues did you encounter?
can anyone who is familiar with toyotas and/or SR20's be able to suggest anything that could pose a problem or significant worry?
I'd rather stay with toyota so if this is too much trouble i will rebuild the 18RGEU standard, and find another car for my turbo project.
I am also considering SR20->TA22, just because the older the car means less emissions restrictions.. but i already have an ra28 with suspension & steering done, and an EFI fuel system.
Any advice or comments are welcome and appreciated.. thats what this thread is for!
Thanks again,
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BlackRA28
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Sat, 21 February 2004 03:49
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I thought that the fact that an SR20 is a newish engine means that you HAVE to run the emission gear regardless of the year of the car....
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Mon, 23 February 2004 03:16
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Yep you have to match the emissions standards of the donor engine. Keep your 28 and don't even entertain the thought of getting rid of it.
I know it has probably been said a hunderd times before by many people equally as uninformed as I am but the 1G is easy and don't weigh much more and is half the price of the SR20.
SR20 in an old celica has been done before, not sure how much work it was though.
Don't forget you will need a gearbox to go with the engine swap, so factor that in the cost with the SR20. Would be a noce conversion though and probably easier than a 3S.
Have you though of a 3T-GTE?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Mon, 23 February 2004 05:23
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Apparently SR20 conversions can be difficult because the gearbox has an unusually large bellhousing, which means in a lot of cars you either have to butcher the firewall/transmission tunnel or mount the engine way forward. I guess if there is a SR20 -> W58 bellhousing available that would make it a lot easier.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Mon, 23 February 2004 11:40
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I am not certain about the emissions side of things, but if i were to get it engineered it wouldnt be a problem.. my mate got a microtech race computer engineered with his 13Bt->series2 conversion and it passed the emissions easy, just tuned a little leaner.. i believe in S.A. our laws are that you have to run a certain amount of stock emissions gear on the motor but the age of the car has a factor in how loud it can be, and how much emissions can be produced regardless of motor..
thats why guys here go nuts with datto 1600s that are '69 model because emissions laws are out the door ...!   (as ive heard  )
I have thought about the 1G a lot because a friend of mine has a GZ20 soarer with W58 and it goes well even with 5-6 ppl.. haha, so it would be a lot of fun but im not sure about if it would be harder to engineer.. i just like the feel of a 4 cyl personally myself in the celica, i want a supra or GT-R for my 6 cyl in life haha  nah, i just dont want to have to squeeze the cooler and radiator in there and try and keep weight out of the front..
A 3T-GTE would be a good swap, and definately easier than the SR20, but how reliable is a 3T really going to be? or how easy is it to get parts to rebuild one to a fairly tuff mild street spec? what are peoples experiences with 3T-GTEs like? personally i have never been in a car powered by one!
Is a W-58 a turbo gearbox from standard at all? i know they are said to be one of the toughest boxes around but how do they live up behind a mils 3T?
Yeh my mate apparently saw an sr20 complete with 5 speed and no ECU for around $1500 only done 45,000ks, but this is just what gave me the idea..
hmm thanks for the advice norbie, ill have to look into the silvia gearbox thing.. i havent actually seen the sr20 bellhousing lined up against a W5* one before.. whts the difference in strength with the w50, w55, w57 and w58??
does the ra28 tunnel or gearbox mounts need any custom work to hold the w57/8 in position?
id have to make custom geabox-to-engineblock mounts wouldnt i for whichever swap?
anyway, enough ramble for tonite..
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blackRA28
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Mon, 23 February 2004 17:15
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blackRA28...
Im in exactly the same position as you at the moment, so im also reading these opinions with intrest.
Ive also got a black RA28 im in the process of rebuilding, and am trying to work out my engine options.
As nice as a 1G does sound, i would also like to stick with a 4cyl if resonably possible.
So that pretty much leaves the: 18R-G, 3T-GTE, 3S-GE, SR20
18R-G -> is getting a little old.
3T-GTE -> looks ok, but ive heard they cant be pushed too far.
3S-GE -> yummy.
SR20 -> problems listed above with gearbox, etc.
Im really liking the idea of a strong 3S-GE, but then theres the problem of FWD -> RWD conversion.... that is unless you chose at Altezza 3S-GE which is already RWD, but VERY expensive.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Mon, 23 February 2004 20:16
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i was in this same boat with my TA22 some time ago. it now has a 4AGE in it...
each engine listed below is completely capable and very good, but horses for courses. i'm not bagging out here just putting up my views.
18RG - too old (but bolt it)
2TG - too old (and smaller for your RA)
3TGTEU - too old
3SG - good - use G bellhousing to the W series box (remember dizzy)
SR20 - good - already RWD
in hindsight, if i was to do this all again, i would have gone 2TG (out of ease) - you really WANT to have to do an engine conversion and when you think you've thought of everything i can guarantee you, that you havent!
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Mon, 23 February 2004 21:26
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| M.W.P. wrote on Tue, 24 February 2004 04:15 |
3T-GTE -> looks ok, but ive heard they cant be pushed too far.
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i feel u may have to have a chat with Rod, Jason, Joel and a couple of others about this statement.
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Location:
Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Tue, 24 February 2004 01:43
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with the 3SGE/GTE The FWD to RWD part shouldn't be that big a deal to scare you off, as long as you have access to sump, engine mounts and bellhousing from a ST142 (?) corona with a 2SC/E.
The hardest part might be sourcing a TA23 crossmember.
The W58 is also really easy to fit, just ask steve_m about how easy it was to get through regency, two flat pieces of steel with two holes drilled in each isn't too complicated. That way you could keep the same tail shaft etc until you have cash to upgrade the diff or whatever.
Remember that you can have a 3SGE complied at regency without engineering reports because it is 4cyl, 2l, toyota. as long as it has a factory computer and complies with ADR27a emissions.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Tue, 24 February 2004 02:08
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Don'tforget all the other stuffing around with a 3S, such as dizzy, coolant lines, custom manifolds etc.
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Tue, 24 February 2004 14:28
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Hmmmm.
So i would have to run the factory ECU for fuel (to get emissions) + an igniton computer + wasted spark to get through rego if i did a FWD->RWD 3S conv.
I could probabaly manage that.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Wed, 25 February 2004 05:36
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The distributor problem disappears if you're using a late-model 3S-GTE (gen 3?) which doesn't have a dizzy.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Wed, 25 February 2004 14:22
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what aboot a 4a-gte?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Wed, 25 February 2004 14:28
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| THE WITZL wrote on Thu, 26 February 2004 01:22 |
what aboot a 4a-gte?
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hmm, 4AGTE. That was a Factory option on green TA22s wasn't it?
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Thu, 26 February 2004 02:42
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| THE WITZL wrote on Thu, 26 February 2004 00:52 |
what aboot a 4a-gte?
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Too small... wont have the down low torque required.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Thu, 26 February 2004 02:46
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| M.W.P. wrote on Thu, 26 February 2004 13:42 |
| THE WITZL wrote on Thu, 26 February 2004 00:52 |
what aboot a 4a-gte?
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Too small... wont have the down low torque required.
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ROFL, Thats just the kind of thing Witzl would say to a certain 4A-G Celica driver.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Thu, 26 February 2004 02:55
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| blackRA28 wrote on Mon, 23 February 2004 22:40 |
I am not certain about the emissions side of things, but if i were to get it engineered it wouldnt be a problem.. my mate got a microtech race computer engineered with his 13Bt->series2 conversion and it passed the emissions easy, just tuned a little leaner.. i believe in S.A. our laws are that you have to run a certain amount of stock emissions gear on the motor but the age of the car has a factor in how loud it can be, and how much emissions can be produced regardless of motor..
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Entirely wrong.
As much as I'd love it to be true for my project, the emissions rules from whatever is the substantially newer part must apply in FULL. i.e. If you put a 1960's motor in a 1990's car, the the emissions regs for the 1990's must be abided, and vice verca.
They system must work in it's entirety.
If you have a dodgy engineer pass a dodgy car, then it is his reputation as well as you car being illegal. Simple.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Thu, 26 February 2004 09:54
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why not look at a 1UZFE? you have the room to do it.
effortless power and torque.
SR20DET will still need engineering, so will the 1UZFE.
?>?>?>?>?
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Fri, 27 February 2004 07:45
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would the increase in displacement be an issue with the 1UZ?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Fri, 27 February 2004 07:58
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how much does the car weigh
times the weight by 3 and u have the max capacity
so i recon the 1uz is out of the question
the sr might cost a touch more in the end but i recon has more hp than the otheres listed and can easily get more with little work
i know this is a toyota forum buti recon go the sr
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Fri, 27 February 2004 08:08
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RA28 is a touch under 1100kg, so the 1UZ isn't an option in NSW or Qld. 2.5L turbo or 3.0L NA is OK though.
I'd love to put a 1MZ-FE V6 in one of these, but converting to RWD would be issues!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Fri, 27 February 2004 08:12
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 26 February 2004 10:55 |
| blackRA28 wrote on Mon, 23 February 2004 22:40 |
I am not certain about the emissions side of things, but if i were to get it engineered it wouldnt be a problem.. my mate got a microtech race computer engineered with his 13Bt->series2 conversion and it passed the emissions easy, just tuned a little leaner.. i believe in S.A. our laws are that you have to run a certain amount of stock emissions gear on the motor but the age of the car has a factor in how loud it can be, and how much emissions can be produced regardless of motor..
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Entirely wrong.
As much as I'd love it to be true for my project, the emissions rules from whatever is the substantially newer part must apply in FULL. i.e. If you put a 1960's motor in a 1990's car, the the emissions regs for the 1990's must be abided, and vice verca.
They system must work in it's entirety.
If you have a dodgy engineer pass a dodgy car, then it is his reputation as well as you car being illegal. Simple.
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you cant fit an older motor into a newer car can you?
so i've heard
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Fri, 27 February 2004 12:44
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You can if you're willing to do the full ADR emission test, but you're looking at many thousands of dollars whether you pass or fail...
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Sat, 28 February 2004 23:34
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Yeh i would love to put one of those quadcam V6's in there, but then again id probably go the 3S if i was going to convert FWD to RWD ......
Now on the thought of SR20, would you be able to adapt the stock computer into the ra28 ignition and wiring or would it be best as far as engineering to go aftermarket fuel/ignition computer...
regards
blackRA28
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: SR20t -> RA28, is it as easy as it looks?
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Sun, 29 February 2004 02:56
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| blackRA28 wrote on Sun, 29 February 2004 10:04 |
Now on the thought of SR20, would you be able to adapt the stock computer into the ra28 ignition and wiring or would it be best as far as engineering to go aftermarket fuel/ignition computer...
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You would have to use the SR20's original looms and ignition stuff.
You couldnt use the RA28's.
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