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Location:
Western Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Formerly TRD_RoLLa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Mon, 28 July 2003 14:43
 
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Hmmm thats got me stumped...
You done all the obvious solutions.
Is there some sort of hydralic press/puller that mechanics use?
Anyone know?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Mon, 28 July 2003 22:30
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Seing as youve allready used a pry bar ill assume that you have probly allready bent back the oil pump casing and so will have to replace that now anyway so you can either keep prying until it comes off regardless of damage to the oil pump or try one of the following (BTW even a small amount of pressure against the alloy on the oil pump is sometimes enough to throw the timing belt out of allignment at the top cam gears if the casing is bent in  )
1, you can drop the oil pan and disconnect the rods and mains and pull the rear main seal off and try and wiggle the crank out with the oil pump still on and take it to someone to press it of with a hydraulic ram.....or
2, it is unlikely this will make a hell of a lot of difference for the effort but get some wet and dry and try and push the sprocket back a little bit toward the engine then sand away at the surface of the crank end till it looks all nice and smooth, you can see how much crap is on the shaft from youre picture, if you do a small section right in front of the sprocket you will quickly be able to tell if its going to make any difference to getting it off.. make sure you clean all the way around the shaft before giving up 
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Mon, 28 July 2003 23:54
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| IRA11Y wrote on Tue, 29 July 2003 08:30 |
make sure you clean all the way around the shaft
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Is that what you tell all the ladies, Michael? 
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Location:
Menai area of Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 00:00
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From my high school metalwork classes it looks to me as though gianttomato has the key to your problem. The key is probably curved where it fits into the the crankshaft and flat across the top (in the gear). If you can lever the key out of it's slot in the shaft, rotate the gear so that the cutout in the gear that fits over the key lines up with the lump on the shaft at 11 o'clock and then you should be able to slide the gear off. Try some RP7 or something on the key to help loosen it and you'll probable need a hammer and solid screw driver to prise the key out .
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 02:37
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nother idea (since no-one mentioned it yet) is to give the gear a good whack, sometimes the shock force can sort of put a crack thru the crap that's holding it on, and mean it will come loose with a puller. is the gear expendable? maybe just grind the bugger down with an angle grinder (similar to how to get axle bearing collars off) till thin, whack the thin bit to expand it a bit. Go SST no.1 
good luck!
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Registered:
December 2002
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: use harmonic damper puller
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Tue, 29 July 2003 06:29
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I am assuming you have taken the Whitcroft key out of the crank that secures the crank pulley
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it is not neccesary to remove the woodruf key on a 4A, it will slide right over it.... thats apart from the fact its almost impossible to get the key out before you take the timing pulley off in any case.. it sits right on top of it
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: use harmonic damper puller
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Tue, 29 July 2003 06:34
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Is that what you tell all the ladies, Michael?
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Keep em coming Max , youre turn will come when im at the bucks party
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: use harmonic damper puller
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Tue, 29 July 2003 06:55
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So there is only one Woodruff key for the 2 pulleys? Wow...kooky!
I was thinking if there was one for the crank pulley, it might be causing a problem. Not at all familiar with the 4As.
WTF did I come up with witcroff? 
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 10:56
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 yeah what a b@stard that timing pulley is to get off.
i managed to get the one off my 4age with a lot of swearing and prying and a bit of bashing. (hopefully i havnt damaged my oil pump as it's being used again on my 4agte rebuild).
but the one on my 4agze, man!! i totalled my oil pump trying to get the fooker off. i did useing a big rubber mallet bash on the pulley, then on a big chizel i had behind the pulley, then back on the pulley and so forth until it slowly moved off the crank.
i did them both on the same night, i am sure my neighbor was about to ring the cops... 
disturbing the peace i think they call it.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 11:13
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Hehe, I'll just take this moment to say mine just slid off
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 12:11
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I had a same problem with my 4age, for my case I had to take out the crankshaft with oil pump and sprocket attached and took it to local engine shop where they drilled the hole onto the sprocket and took it out..I've tried many different ways to get it out.. but It won't come off using normal gear puller or prybar. if you were thinking of doing engine rebuilding do what I did, certainly less hassle for you .. I hope this helps .. 
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Location:
Menai area of Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 12:24
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You could try getting a small crowbar behind the sprocket as you have done - preferrably two, one from either side so you might need some help. Rather than just using force to try to lever the sprocket off, do that plus give the crank a sharp belt with a heavy hammer to try to crack the bond between the sprocket and the shaft. This works on steering wheels, ball joints etc so may be worth a try.
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Location:
Western Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 14:47
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Thanks for all your input/help guys Believe me I gave it a verbal bashing but to no avail.
The prybar I used initially was only a small thing, similar to an allen key. I didn't exert much force so the oil pump casing is still fine. Judging by the amount of force I used with the pullers, any attempt to pry it off would easily damage the casing as you have stated.
I also tried hammering the crank using a piece of wood whilst trying to pull it off. Couldn't get that desired bit of movement to crack the seal... all a bit difficult to work with while the engine was still in the car.
The sprocket is replaceable, I rang Toyota and they wanted $33, interestingly they wanted $168 just for the small timing belt idler pulley. Drilling and tapping two holes into the gear to form a puller sounds like the way to go. I won't be trying this again for a while now as the car needs to be on the road but when I get around to it, I'll post up the results.
Cheers
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 20:34
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if you're going to replace the gear, then you have forgotten the answer to MANY automotive woes.
THE 9 INCH ANGLE GRINDER.
this will definately remove it, but, be careful when getting close to the crank, maybe get the smaller 4 inch grinder when you start getting closer.
then go to toyota or wreckers and get a new gear!
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Tue, 29 July 2003 20:52
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Did any-one mentioned oxy? Normally Würth's Rost-Off and big hammer removes/loosens/undo everything.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: use harmonic damper puller
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Tue, 29 July 2003 22:38
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| IRA11Y wrote on Tue, 29 July 2003 16:29 |
| Quote: |
I am assuming you have taken the Whitcroft key out of the crank that secures the crank pulley
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it is not neccesary to remove the woodruf key on a 4A, it will slide right over it.... thats apart from the fact its almost impossible to get the key out before you take the timing pulley off in any case.. it sits right on top of it
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You'd think that, but, on Mark's Trueno in testing on Sunday the back of the keyway on the front pulley failed (I'm assuming fatigue) and the bloody woodruf key managed to shoot out the hole - luckily, he's not running high lift cams....
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Wed, 30 July 2003 13:06
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Hehehe, I had the biggest bitch of a time getting mine off too.
I had to get mine off because the half of this 'woodruff' key that fixes the harmonic balancer had broken & was allowing the pulley to spin on the crank.
The crank pulley/harmonic balancer & it's bolt came off easy, they both just pulled out by hand. But I spent days trying to get that little timing pulley bastard off, & had my whole front end out to make easy access.
I soaked it for yonks with penetrene, & levering did completely nothing. That stupid lip around the bottom 2/3s of the oil pump housing stops you getting leverage from opposing sides, & I ended up snapping a section off similar to in the pic, but at 6 o'clock. This eventually enabled me to get a 3 jaw puller onto the little bugger, & I slowly got it off. The oil pump housing is pretty wasted though.
I also wasted the oil pump housing on my new motor, I snapped off the bloody tensioner pulley mount (aaarrgghhhh, 4 fux sake!!!  ), that really got me angry.
I gotta say, the drill & tap method would definitely be the go, and when you replace it, or if anyone ever rebuilds a motr, be sure to use a bit of antiseize when you put this little bugger on. You could be saving someones, even your own, sanity.
BTW, anyone got a spare oil pump housing they wanna sell?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Wed, 30 July 2003 22:34
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I suppose in a worst case scenerio, you could just take to the pulley with a drill to weaken it, then whack it with a chisel and go buy a new one.
For $33, I wouldn't go through that much grief...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Thu, 31 July 2003 04:08
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Have you tried drilling thru the key to weaken it (and then remove it with great gusto, more swearing and excessive percussive violence) or use the hole as a hook point to pry it out of the keyway?
Once the keys gone, lock up the crankshaft (any large tool between a balance weight and block) then wind the sprocket to break any stiction seal before sliding it off the shaft. You can thenuse any kind of torque multiplier to assist here.
Oh, get a new key and clean the taper on shaft before re-assembly. This probably came about when old (and not well shaped) key was re-used. ;(
Charles
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Thu, 31 July 2003 06:15
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the back of the keyway on the front pulley failed (I'm assuming fatigue)
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its not uncommon although ive never heard of the key shooting out??!! 
generally the key way fails when it hasnt been tightened up properly, ive seen a lot where the key gets damaged then the back half of the key itself snaps leaving the cam pulley spinning freely.... not nice!
in my limited experience the reason people have trouble removing the gears is generally because the last person to take it off didnt bother to give the shaft a quick sand and clean to make sure it would roll off freely the next time.. so when you get them off make sure you make it easy for youreself I always sand mine so its all nice and clean and they generaly slide off no worries
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Location:
Western Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do i get the timing sprocket off? (impossible?)
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Sat, 20 March 2004 22:51
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Finally got the bastard off!!
I started to get oil dropping on my driveway so I knew it was time to revisit the sprocket problem. This time I drilled and tapped two holes into it to create a puller. You wouldn't believe how much force was still required to get it off! This thing was siezed hard onto the crank. It looked like the puller bolts were going to strip, but somehow I managed to get that first initial pop and slowly the sprocket pulled off.
Bastard of a job to change a $5 oil seal, but at least I changed the timing belt in the process.
Here are some pics for anyone with the same problem.
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