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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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 Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Sun, 21 March 2004 22:21
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Hopefully someone can confirm this for me (I don't have access to the piston specs myself).
Was talking to a guy with a 3T-GTE the other day about pistons. Apparently he is using forged pistons from a Mercedes 280 6 cylinder. Only required a 1mm overbore and he got a complete engine for $180NZ which left him with two spare pistons.
Now to me it sound too good to be true, but maybe someone else has more details. I have no idea of pin height etc but supposedly they mated to the standard rods.
If this is correct, could be a very cheap way to get a set of decent pistons into the 3T-GTE.
Callum
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Registered:
June 2002
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Mon, 22 March 2004 22:37
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bump,
Any one have a data base with these pistons, my searching has turned up squat. Just need to know pin height and pin diamater.
If pin diameter is 22mm
and compression height around 35mm we may be in luck
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Mon, 22 March 2004 23:25
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Hmmm, sounds very interesting.
I think that even if these pistons did have a matching measurements to the 3T-GTE:
bore: 85mm (obviously can go oversize)
pin diameter: 22mm
compression height: 35mm
..it would be interesting to see how strong these pistons are. They may be forged, but they may not be well suited to high boost conditions.
Callum, can you find out any more details about these pistons? It would be great to know what model the pistons came out from.. especially what year would be a good start, as the 280 has been around since the 1970s, I would say they wouldn't have used forged pistons until much later than that.
I guess also being a Mercedes, it may not be the cheapest option either, especially if you are looking at buying new pistons.. but it could still be cheaper than custom forgies..
Worth investigating futher.
Cheers,
3T-GTE
[Updated on: Tue, 23 March 2004 04:14]
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 01:25
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Can't get more details sorry, was out of town at the time and don't know the guy.
He was babbling on about being merlin forged pistons, strongest you can get blah blah blah. Thats why I really want to get some actual confirmation. Apparently his own engine was running around 17 pounds boost and 295hp at the wheels, but as they say talk is cheap.
Callum
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 02:21
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With a lot of luck he might read this thread on Toymods & give us some more info 
Seriously speaking though, if there is an ounce of truth to what he was saying, it would definitely be worth looking into some more.
I'm wondering if a call to Mercedes spare parts division may be worthwhile. Not sure how helpful they may be or if they will have the information we need on record, but it is worth a try.
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 03:33
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Reading this, this morning got me quite interested as well, and working for mercedes in spare parts, i thought I might do a bit of investagating. Now the pistons from a 110 motor (280S,SE,SEL)
are 86mm in standard form, but the pictures aren't the best, and as benz don't keep any in the country (at $310 odd a slug there isn't much call for them) I can't check pin size. So I called a customer who is a benz engine builder and he has a set of non genuine pistons there that I will measure up against my 3tgte pistons (when I get the motor apart) and let you all know.
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 04:04
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Kool 22,
sound like a good contact you may have. the 110 engine is the one with the right piston size so I am assuming this is the one also. In the mean time can you get a measurement of the pin diameter and a height from either pin center to crown top or pin top to crown top? as that would give as the best indication as to whether they are a goer.
As far as strength is concered mercedes typically make tuff engine stuff built to tolerance unmatched by local car manufactures any way.
Roger
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 04:24
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Kool22, I'd be very interested also.
From what I have found, speaking to someone who has "dabbled" a little with Mercs, is the following:
C280:
Motor designation M104.941
89.90 x 73.50 B/S
1.22:1 B/S ratio
10:1 Compression
1.5 x 1.75 x 3.0 Rings
He is going to see if he can find out the pin diameter & height for me... see how we go.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 04:27
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Roger,
As far as strength goes, yes I agree they should be stronger than most, but I would wonder how they would compare to some Sean Maloney specials, or some Ross / Weisco Forgies... if they would be as good???
Any thoughts??
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 05:32
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My intention was not to compare to new forgies (at $300 plus each might as well go custom). But may be useful for a budget build where good condition second hand forgies make a rebuild affordable when a standard piston dies.
Callum
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 16:06
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This is so interesting! 
I have been looking cheap pistons for my turbo 3T project, too.
I asked this from my friend who has piston catalogue, he hasn't replied yet.
Are they forged or not? In stock form, I believe that these pistons are pressure casted and made by Mahle. Like most of the German and Swedish car pistons. Just like VW "forgies".
There is good chance that Mahle might supply these as forged too(still cheap). Somebody prove me wrong  .
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 21:53
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I'll measure them up later today, and let you all know I'll also find out what the cost of them are and if they are forges or not. (but I have a sneaky suspicion theyr'e not)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 22:06
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Sounds great Kool22, I'm very interested to see if they are the right size, & most importantly forgies.
I'd say if they are forged & will work, you might find a sudden increase in demand for these 280 pistons 
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Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 23 March 2004 22:56
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| Quote: |
Jayem,
How configdent are you that these are Mahle pistons?, with the link you have provided if you take a look at the 280 you will see item 49a under engine ie all information is not provided.
Take a look at the 200 and there is a lot more detail ie pin diameter but still no compression height.
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It's more like hunch. AFAIK. VW, Audi, Saab and Volvo uses Mahle as stock pistons and I vaguely remeber that BMW and MB belongs into that bunch too. But I could be very wrong.
There aint too much info but something to give idea and what I get from my friends shabby message, it looks like MB pistons wont work. Yet Im hoping that Im wrong! It did look that compression height is +40mm and pin diameter is ~26mm depending on MB engine.
My friend send my this: "Catalogue didnt know such a engine as M110 and closest on MB's was 86x42.7+ 14.9x89.6".
That's Hebrew to me  .
Once again I hope that Im wrong!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 00:11
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Some more thoughts...
First thought ... One thing that we will need to work out is how the piston shape will effect the final compression ratio. The 3T-GTE pistons have quite a dome shape, going to a flat top is going to drop the compression ratio a fair amount... & if the Merc pistons are dish/bowl shaped, it could drop the compression ratio even further.
Another thought... speaking with another engine builder he tells me that the Nissan VG30 pistons will work in the 3T-GTE also. Has anyone ever looked into these? Are they forged?
A final thought ... Speaking with yet another engine builder friend I have also come across some brand new forged pistons that I could get a full set for $900.00, even includes high quality rings. This makes me wonder, how much cheaper could I do it even if the Merc pistons worked, I would still need to buy rings, & pin-clips etc... I reckon it would be hard to do it any cheaper than $900.00
Any thoughts??
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 01:19
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Ok had them measured, and here we go:
Pin size is 23mm
And from the top of the pin to the top of the piston is 30.5mm
Now they're not forged, they are heavily domed at the top,are about $800 for a set of 6, and from what he says they are a much heavier piston than the toyota piston, so balancing problems may occur.
But I have been doing some other looking myself and found that paradise garage in the states (they are the guys that race the 3t powered cars) have a special at the moment, a set of forges (with pins and rings) for about $400US. And they only charge $20US to ship overseas. With the dollar doing well at the moment, that could be another avenue people could go down. They also have all maner of other cool stuff for 3ts for sale.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 02:01
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Hi Kool22,
Sounds like the Merc 280 pistons are no go, both for price & also sizing.
The "Paradise Garage Special" sounds really good... do you have a URL for them? $420 US works out to around $560 Australian.. I'd say that is a great deal, depending on the quality of the pistons & rings.
Any more info you could give us on these would be great.
Any thoughts on the Nissan VG30 pistons?
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 02:51
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Theyr'e called paradise racing (not garage, sorry ) and their address is www.paradiseracing.com
The special is close to $500US, but still thats not bad!
As for the VG30 slug, I haven't heard anything about them as yet, but if someone has a connection at nissan they could be a cost effective option.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 03:10
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Thanks for the link
For everyone else, here is what they look like:
Comes complete with:
Forged pistons.
Wrist pins: high carbon, case-hardened.
Ring set: chrome moly faced top, cast 2nd, 3-piece oil.
Locks: carbon steel wire.
They have a special on a 4 cylinder kit for $499.00 US + $20.00 US for shipping = $690 Australian.
They certainly look nice & shiny in the picture, but has anyone ever used Arias pistons here before? I wonder what the quality is like, compared to say a Ross forgie??
Also, am I correct in remembering (it has been a while ) that the 3T-C has the exact same bore, pin diameter & height as the 3T-GTE... in fact the 3T-C shares the same block as a 3T-GTE??
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 03:11
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they look pretty though
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 04:29
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Those pistons in the photo are for a 16 valve motor, factory 3TGTE pistons look nothing like that from memory, and the new slugs would need machining to clear I'd say, losing more compression not only from the machining but also the four valves flycuts too.
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 05:13
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if you go to http://www.paradiseracing.com the picture covers all the piston sets on sale.
Having said that, the pistons are for the 3T-C with no mention of comp ratio. I assume the 3T-G pistons having much lower compression could create problems. May need to contact them to check if they have them for turbo 3T applications.
Callum
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 05:35
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I was a bit secptical about the picture as well, so I email them (his name is Luis) and asked him if had any pictures of the 3T slugs. I also invited him to join the discussion as I have read some of his threads on club 4ag and he knows his stuff on the 3Ts. So I'll let you know what he says (or he'll let us all know if he joins)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 24 March 2004 22:36
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Hi Kool22,
Have you heard anything back yet?
I would be interested in seeing if he can give some details on the arias pistons suited to a 3T-GTE?
I also noticed that they had a website:
http://www.ariaspistons.com
They had some pretty good specials on their specials page (none sutied to the 3T-GTE though)
Perhaps it is worthwhile contacting Arias directly?
Maybe we could do a "group buy" through Toymods & see if we can get a good price?
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Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Thu, 25 March 2004 10:55
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i'd be very interested in a set for under $1000NZ
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Location:
Mentone
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Thu, 25 March 2004 22:02
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Nah nothing as yet, but I'll keep you all posted
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Fri, 26 March 2004 04:52
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It currently resides in the RA28 advetised in the signature thread below, and is used for Tarmac Rallies/Touring Road Events, short and long course motorkhanas, track days, sprints, ..., and is also adorned with a T28 off the side!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Sun, 28 March 2004 23:41
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So did anyone look into any of these options further?
I am still wondering about the VG30 pistons. From what I have heard these will work in a 3T-GTE.
Looking up some specs on the VG30, there is the VG30-DETT engine which came out in the 300ZX from 1989 onwards, producing 280hp@6000. Surely, this would have had some decent forged pistions???
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Mon, 29 March 2004 13:06
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I did think about 3S-GTE pistons, but forget the idea due to compression ratio dilemma. I have again started to think about this recenly because 4A-GZE pistons are in reputation of cheap and good, so I guess 3S-GTE should be also. 3S-GTE has 22mm gudgeon pin and 35mm compression height. Diameter in standard form is 86mm and you can get 0.25, 0.5 and 1mm overbore sizes(from memory). Suitable for 3T you might say but these come with bowl top. Was it something like -8cc. Anyway, I'm thinking about shaving the head and fill welding the compression chambers in the head.
Has anybody tried this?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 13 April 2004 03:38
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Did anyone get any further with this?
I have also heard that apart from the VG30 Pistions, it may also be possible to use the SR-20 pistons.
Does anyone know anything about these?
Cheers,
3T-GTE
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 13 April 2004 08:22
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damn u guys are getting some great info here
i heard that 3sgte pistons fit, and there is a guy floating round here somewhere that has a set in his 3tgte
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 13 April 2004 23:07
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SR20 pistons would also be my pick if you simply needed pistons that replace the current one (not forged put probably a good piston none the less)
Dimension are
Bore = 86mm standard up to 87mm
Compression height = 32mm
Pin diameter = 22mm
compression height may seem a little low but with machining of the head and block some could be recovered.
The SR20 pistons are not fly cut like the 3sgte pistons and are a dome shaped piston
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 14 April 2004 00:01
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I am leaning towards the VG30 pistons. I believe that these are the same dimensions as the SR-20 & will work well in the 3T-GTE.
I also believe that they are forged, but I am yet to confirm this.
I am going down to check out a VG30DETT engine in the next couple of weeks & see for myself if these are forged.
It would be good to know if anyone else has looked into this already.
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Location:
christchurch (new zealand)
Registered:
April 2005
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 26 April 2005 10:42
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r 3tc pistons the same as 3tgte?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 12 July 2005 05:19
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anyone found more info or possible oem forged pistons? wiseco do a low compression 22mm pin 35 compress height piston, id say thats the cheapest one i have found. i read about using vw pistons too - mahle.
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 12 July 2005 05:51
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| mongorola wrote on Tue, 26 April 2005 20:42 |
r 3tc pistons the same as 3tgte?
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holy resurrected topics batman!
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 12 July 2005 12:08
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I've built a number of engines using Wiseco pistons. For 1800+ 2TG's and 3TGTE's I've never paid more than $720 delivered. They're listed as 3T-c pistons from the yanky market. They've got larger diameter and deeper valve reliefs than standard 2TG or 3TGs for the use of oversized valves and bigger cams. For how good they are I reckon they're cheap as chips. Definately cheap insurance anyway. I've never busted one and believe me I've tried.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 12 July 2005 22:27
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care to share where you get your wiseco's from?
wouldnt mind a set....then i just need to find a 3t crank
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Tue, 12 July 2005 23:18
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A mate of mine recently bought some ARIAS pistons for a 3tg build up. He has never used them before and usually uses wiseco forgies. They were that much cheaper he couldn't resist. Will be interesting to see how they go. If they have no problems I will be buying a set for my donk.
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Location:
Pilbara
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 13 July 2005 01:50
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I had heard a whisper that there were some forged pistons from both VW and Mazda that would be applicable for a 3TGTEU but I'm not sure if these were for a turbo 3TC or a twin cam head.
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Location:
Melburn!
Registered:
June 2005
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 13 July 2005 02:57
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| 3T-GTE wrote on Wed, 14 April 2004 10:01 |
I am leaning towards the VG30 pistons. I believe that these are the same dimensions as the SR-20 & will work well in the 3T-GTE.
I also believe that they are forged, but I am yet to confirm this.
I am going down to check out a VG30DETT engine in the next couple of weeks & see for myself if these are forged.
It would be good to know if anyone else has looked into this already.
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I am pretty sure they are forged, and that they will work if the SR20 ones do. Because some of the pulsar boys (www.pulsar.org.au) have aparantly used them. However in the SR20's they raise the compression to something like 11:1.
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 13 July 2005 03:28
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| Merudo wrote on Tue, 12 July 2005 17:51 |
| mongorola wrote on Tue, 26 April 2005 20:42 |
r 3tc pistons the same as 3tgte?
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holy resurrected topics batman!
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Isn't it a good thing when someone uses the SEARCH button????
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Location:
Pilbara
Registered:
November 2004
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 13 July 2005 09:31
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this thread is not over... that is why it has been brought up
so far i can find a set of wisecos for about aus 550 from the US not including shipping of ??. anyone found cheaper?
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Possible cheap pistons for 3T-GTE?
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Wed, 10 August 2005 02:17
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seems the guy who built my 2tg hybrid used nissan navara pistons???, but also needed to weld up the head chambers a bit because it had a too low compression. maybe these would be right for 3tgte? if they are forged it would be even better!
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