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fub_
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March 2004
13b into AE86 Sun, 25 April 2004 06:33 Go to next message
What does everyone think of a 13b turbo into a ae86? Has this been done before?

[Updated on: Sun, 25 April 2004 14:35]

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no_tofu_speed
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Jab what?!!?!
Re: 13b into AE86 Sun, 25 April 2004 06:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yup, there was one for sale few months ago, there is also a video clip floating around of some jap dudes that have a 20B in it. with an apprent 4agte chasing it, the speed it pulls away is so quick that people are unsure if it is fake or not....
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FKN16V
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Re: 13b into AE86 Sun, 25 April 2004 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
no_tofu_speed wrote on Sun, 25 April 2004 16:53

Yup, there was one for sale few months ago, there is also a video clip floating around of some jap dudes that have a 20B in it. with an apprent 4agte chasing it, the speed it pulls away is so quick that people are unsure if it is fake or not....



Oh it was real, just unbelievable, untill you see it.

Just do a search bro, there's info everywhere.

Steve
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celicaboy
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Re: 13b into AE86 Sun, 25 April 2004 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
a 20b in an ae86 would be a weapon.. and it is easy to tell the diff between a rotor and a piston engine 20b would be alot quicker then a 4agte by far so i believe it.. it wouldnt suprise me actually
anwyay a 13bt would be a sweet conversion
the engine are lite and easy to make power
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oldcorollas
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Re: 13b into AE86 Sun, 25 April 2004 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i'm surprised no-one has asked this, but..

is it legal?

being in sydney, a turbo motor can only be 2.5x the original weight of the vehicle.

for RTA, a 13B is 2.6L, thus the cr can only weigh 2.6/2.5=1040kg

so, does the AE86 weigh 1040kg??

it's all about the POWAH Rolling Eyes PML....

Cya, Stewart
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Lachie
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Re: 13b into AE86 Sun, 25 April 2004 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doesn't an AE86 weigh about 960kg? Correct me if I'm wrong but I can recal this from somewhere.

oldcorollas wrote on Sun, 25 April 2004 19:20

i'm surprised no-one has asked this, but..

is it legal?

being in sydney, a turbo motor can only be 2.5x the original weight of the vehicle.

for RTA, a 13B is 2.6L, thus the cr can only weigh 2.6/2.5=1040kg

so, does the AE86 weigh 1040kg??



That would make it illegal in NSW

mmm 20B into an AE86, anyone got some dosh they wanna throw my way so I can do this?

Sucks being a poor uni student...
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truenosedan
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Re: 13b into AE86 Sun, 25 April 2004 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ae86 is not about power it is about balance, if you want power buy a mazda or a nissan or a 6 cyl toyota or a 3sgte toyota! ive seen a 13bt 86 in adelaide, nice car but not too keen on interchanging brands, keep toyota engines in toyotas keep nissans in nissans etc
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no_tofu_speed
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Re: 13b into AE86 Sun, 25 April 2004 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I agree personally with this theory of keeping the heart the same make. But have to admit, thoughts of a rotor or even say an S2000 engine in an 86 kinda makes u giddy with joy.

The "apparent" engine being a gte in the trailing car in the 20B 86 clip came from somewhere in the rambling debate in a thread about the authenticity of that clip.....still one of my favs in my collection, dont suppos enayone knows what tuning video the original source was that it was taken from?
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fub_
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

ae86 is not about power it is about balance, if you want power buy a mazda or a nissan or a 6 cyl toyota or a 3sgte toyota!
I think you will find that mazdas are about balance too, the rx8 has 50/50 balance as did series 4 through series 8 rx-7. The reason for putting a 13bt in the sprinter is to try and keep good balance and i would like 300hp atw which i don't think the 4agze is capable of

[Updated on: Mon, 26 April 2004 03:38]

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pro_ke
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 02:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
no_tofu_speed wrote on Mon, 26 April 2004 05:19

I agree personally with this theory of keeping the heart the same make. But have to admit, thoughts of a rotor or even say an S2000 engine in an 86 kinda makes u giddy with joy.

The "apparent" engine being a gte in the trailing car in the 20B 86 clip came from somewhere in the rambling debate in a thread about the authenticity of that clip.....still one of my favs in my collection, dont suppos enayone knows what tuning video the original source was that it was taken from?


wouldnt a s2000 motor give you 5 reverse gears?
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SLY16V
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 04:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dont forget that 20b sprinter has 600ps or something like that...
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NuGeN
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 05:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pro_ke wrote on Mon, 26 April 2004 12:23



wouldnt a s2000 motor give you 5 reverse gears?



Newer Honda motors spin the right way now. I think it was around 98/99 they made the change.
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YelloRolla
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 05:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
[quote title=fub_ wrote on Mon, 26 April 2004 11:34]
Quote:

300hp atw which i don't think the 4agze is capable of


Bens car makes 245 rwKw with a 4agte 245/.747 = 328 rwhp.

Yogis car is making 316hp at the wheels with a 4ag.

I do believe that getting the power from the 13BT will be a walk in the park, but a lot harder to get the engine into the '86 in the first place.
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pro_ke
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
YelloRolla wrote on Mon, 26 April 2004 15:28

but a lot harder to get the engine into the '86 in the first place.


you reckon? front mounting the motor in a car with an engine bay as big as the ae86 would be a piece of piss and the gearbox crossmember woudl be a very straightforward job. hooking up a cooling system/electrics etc is that easy it is a non issue

i am surprised more people are not putting rotaries into sprinters actually

ps i have never put a 13b into a sprinter and what i have jsut said is a guess. there may be a secret that i am unaware of that makes it very difficult to put this motor into this car.
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fub_
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
[quote title=YelloRolla wrote on Mon, 26 April 2004 15:28]
fub_ wrote on Mon, 26 April 2004 11:34

Quote:

300hp atw which i don't think the 4agze is capable of


Bens car makes 245 rwKw with a 4agte 245/.747 = 328 rwhp.

Yogis car is making 316hp at the wheels with a 4ag.

I do believe that getting the power from the 13BT will be a walk in the park, but a lot harder to get the engine into the '86 in the first place.

328rwhp would be just about the max for a 4agze. There are plenty of 13bt making over 500rwhp I could get 300rwhp without even pulling the motor apart

[Updated on: Mon, 26 April 2004 09:48]

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Simon-AE86
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 09:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
too much power for an ae86, if you want to play with that much power, then build a drag car, because i can gaurentee that if you put 300-500 rwhp into an ae86, i would still kick your sorry arse in the hills with my stock 100kw at the fly ae86.

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Intensevil
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
that would all depend on the slope of the incline/decline now wouldn't it Smile

whenever i hear about high hp engines goign into 86's all i can think of is traction issues, would need some seriously fat rubber to make hte most of it. The thought of putting a 12a or 13b na into a ae86 is much more appealing because its cheaper in the long run, won't need to upgrade brakes or strengthen chassis since the engine isn't really amazingly powerful.
If you commit to a 13bt i hope u have deap pockets, and a camera so i can see the results when ur done Very Happy
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pjaw11sc
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oldcorollas wrote on Sun, 25 April 2004 19:20

i'm surprised no-one has asked this, but..

is it legal?

being in sydney, a turbo motor can only be 2.5x the original weight of the vehicle.

for RTA, a 13B is 2.6L, thus the cr can only weigh 2.6/2.5=1040kg

so, does the AE86 weigh 1040kg??

it's all about the POWAH Rolling Eyes PML....

Cya, Stewart


I was sure a 13b is a 1.3L, and FUB_ 328rwhp for a 4agze? im pretty sure you can only get about 200 (from the sc12 anyway)
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fub_
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 10:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quote:

I was sure a 13b is a 1.3L, and FUB_ 328rwhp for a 4agze? im pretty sure you can only get about 200 (from the sc12 anyway)
That what someonelse said i would have thought 200rwhp myself.I only want 300rwhp anymore would be deadly as for trackion im going to put the biggest and widest tyres I can fit under the gaurds(not low profiles).

[Updated on: Mon, 26 April 2004 11:14]

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Simon-AE86
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
13B IS a 1.3L STATIC CC, HOWEVER DOT refer them as 2.6L capacity due to the way a rotary works in operation. they are not similar to piston motors.
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oldcorollas
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 10:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pjaw11sc wrote on Mon, 26 April 2004 20:31

I was sure a 13b is a 1.3L, and FUB_ 328rwhp for a 4agze? im pretty sure you can only get about 200 (from the sc12 anyway)


okay. go and tell that to the RTA Wink
and while yu are there, call the FIA Razz

mazda calls it 1.3L, and to a point, thats true, but thats not the way the RTA and racing authorities think.

LOL, i'd love to see the engineers face when you try and tell him a 20B is 1.95L Laughing then a 20B turbo would be legal in an AE86 Very Happy Very Happy

CYa, Stewart
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shindeokure
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 10:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
correct me if i'm wrong, but the 13b is actually 2 x 650cc(approx) rotor engines.. hence being a 1.3L, not 2.6
..and you cannot legally convert the 13bt into an ae86.

having said that, has anyone attempted engineering an n/a 13b and then getting a turbo engineered afterwards?
engines are rated by the standard factory output when being engineered, so a detuned turbocharged 13b would not fall under the same catergory as a factory produced 13bt.
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celicaboy
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
if a 13b turbo is legal in an rx2 i dont see why it wouldnt be in an ae86 Smile
exactually.. a 13b is a 1.3 but is equivilent to a 2. something
12a is a 1.2 and 20b is a 2.0
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lang
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stop being difficult,

and a stock 100kw engine is not the fastest engine for a sprinter
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Intensevil
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the maximum - minimum volume for a 13b is 654 x 2 = 1308 cc, but that only includes one face per rotor, if u count all 6 its 3924cc. Big discussion about this on ausrotary but i boiled it down to it still being 1308cc except it fires 3 times as often as a piston engine.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/downloads/ vsi/vsi06.pdf

*The engine capacity to be used for rotary engines is the displacement of all rotors x 2*

so only a naturally aspirated 13b is legal.
assume ae86 weighs 950kg, for na its 3 times vehicle weight, so 2850cc, 2 x 1308 is 2616cc.

No turbo 13b's though.
Turbo 12a's are a go though
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oldcorollas
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 12:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
and if you wanna get REALLY technical, a rotary will produce torque equivalent of a motor 1.8 times it's capacity, rather than 2x... lots of dispute in racing world as to how much to 'penalise' the rotors for having such high specific output...

so, 13B = 1.3L, puts out torque of 1.3x1.8 = 2.34L motor... ie 234Nm. for each BAR boost, add another 234Nm.
don't believe me? check the numbers against race and factory rotors....

REAL numbers Wink not those namby pamby "my mates budgies uncles flatmates kittens brothers neighbours cats car had 600HP... nahh really maate, it was fooly sik!!, he told me it was "
Twisted Evil

heh heh..

of course then we get into the higher rpm that rotors like, so they will produce power of MORE than 1.8 times equivalent capacity... so 2 times is kinds more appropriate perhaps???

Cya, Stewart

so anyways.. the RTA should make it 1.8 times, but thats a bit hard form many car kiddies to comprehend Wink

Cya, Stewart
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Simon-AE86
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sure 100kw's isnt the quickets engien for an ae86, but since were talking corners, it would certainly beat a 500 rwhp ae86 hands down...

the key being balance my friend.

oh you own an rx7....sorry, your excused then... Rolling Eyes Laughing
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Intensevil
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
what if the sprinter had 500hp but a linear poweband? Then if u had great foot work u could utilise it properly
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oldcorollas
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Re: 13b into AE86 Mon, 26 April 2004 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
you mean a 6L chev Wink

mmmm sports sedan AE86 Very Happy
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fub_
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 03:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
im not trying to be funny i really like rotary engines and old skool toyotas so putting these 2 together would be a dream for me
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THE WITZL
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 04:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
this thread loves "the band"

P.S. this conversion is illegal in NSW, QLD and most likely SA. Victoria i think might be ok.
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lang
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
there is a 13bt sprinter in sa, i couldnt tell you if its legal or registered tho.
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YelloRolla
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 05:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pro KE - I actually wrote that the 4A would be much easier than the 13B. AE86's actually come out with a 4A in them - simple like changing a tyre. No engine mount issues, trans tunnel issues associated with rotaries having the clutch fork poking out of the top. Not hard for the rotary - just a lot harder than the 4A.

fub_ - quote the bit where I wrote that "300rwhp from the 13BT rotary would be a walk in the park".

I never said that 300rwhp from the 4A would be easy - just that it is possible and that there are 2 examples that belong to people that I know.

Talk about missing the content..... Rolling Eyes

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celicaboy
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
as i said.. a 13b is a 1300cc engine but they are equivelent to much bigger engine in torque or some shit
sure they run like a bigger cc engine but it comes down to that they are still a 1300cc motor
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SeptemberSquallIndustries
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
celicaboy wrote on Tue, 27 April 2004 18:17

as i said.. a 13b is a 1300cc engine but they are equivelent to much bigger engine in torque or some shit
sure they run like a bigger cc engine but it comes down to that they are still a 1300cc motor


You're all noise and no signal, that's just plain nonsense clown.
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Rex_Kelway
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Just curious as to how many of you actually know how 200 odd killowatts at the wheels feels?.

Not to boast, but working for a performance workshop here in SA part of Rex's job is to test drive any car be it street, rally or track which has work done on it, be it a service or as a second opinion for one of the other techs. So, rest assured Rex is not talking from his arse...

Many of these cars have had well over 200kw at the wheels. Rex can tell you now that 200kw @ wheels is an absolute bucketload of power for a road car. Not to mention being nigh on useless for road cars for all but straight sections of race track days.

In a light car such as an AE86 this becomes even more apparent.

Unless you are a complete dickhead you will know that even most race/rally classes are restricted in power. Take WRC for example, with cars being restricted to 300 odd Hp at the flywheel. Are you going to tell me that isnt fast enough. Rex has driven rally cars and let Rex tell you that they will stomp on pretty much anything where it counts, and by quite a bit.

Rex has no doubt that Simon-MrRx7 could wallop many of you with far more powerful cars. And you want to know why?, because his car would be far easier to drive, better ballanced and with what some would see as a major lack of power his driving technique would have improved to compensate (never met Simon, but his reputation precedes him).

Who was it that said, anyone can drive a fast car fast. Only a good driver can make a slow car fast.

Some of you Rex believes, be it subconsiously or not, think that having a huge amount of grunt gives you a certain amount of prestige. While in certain circles this may be true, not in true drivers circles. It is by no means difficult to build a monster HP engine. True skill lies in creating a vehicle the perfect balance of power, grip and poise for its purpose.

Rex has much more to say, but he thinks you get his point. Some may criticise Rex because he is building a 4AGTE, the reality is, if Rex makes 140kw at the wheels, he will be more than happy.

Rex
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torque
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
http://www.rx7.com/techarticles_displacement.html

one of the simplest yet best explanations I've found.
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celicaboy
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Just curious as to how many of you actually know how 200 odd killowatts at the wheels feels?.
... feels pretty damb good in a silvia
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V8_MA61
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dont forget you'll use more fuel than any other turbo engine...ud use even more than my v8 with 750 holley..
not to mention the inherent problems with them.
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truenosedan
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
driving with simon - i have been in some pretty fast cars 204 kw at the wheels silvias, 150 kw at the wheels s14's, 165 kw at the wheels r32's etc, but i have never been in a car that felt as fast as simons 100kw at fly ae86! through the hills his car is a machine and he possess a lot of skill! he is no try hard takumi, n e one who tries to diss him, i sugest that u go for a drive with him or try to keep up with him in the hills. i was impressed while half shitting myself lol! his car has balance!
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draven
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
simon - we gotta go for a cruise sometime
I used to terrorise turbo skylines with my stock ra65 celica - would love to tail you through the hills Smile (joel can come along too - he did relaly well last pac highway cruise)
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wraith
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 10:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If you want to put a 13B into something, bung one in my old AE-71 wagon. Leave the AE-86's to those that live for the drive, not the power. My completly worthless 2c.
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Simon-AE86
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Truenosedan: that was with the car set up to slide too... should see how it handles when its actually set up to grip Razz

Rex: if you dont mind me asking, where do you work?

you're damn spot on about people acctually knowing how much power 200 rwkw's is, i used to have a 200 rwkw 13b turbo S3 rx7 (hence my nickname.. cant change that dammit) and that was spastic fast on the street however it was too much power for the chassis and both of my ae86's would kick it in the hills easily.

Thats my mindless thought of the day
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thetoyman75
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Where the hell is Ed ???? For a second I thought I was in the outhouse with all the crap I just waded threw. Sad

Guys, please keep the tech section technical. We are not anti fun but the tech section is here as a resource for furture reference and is expected to be a dribble free zone.

Kiddies are welcome to play in the outhouse.

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ed_ma61
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Re: 13b into AE86 Tue, 27 April 2004 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed been up to asshole in paperwork Confused

cleaning up now boss Sad

(thanks for getting me in trouble guys)
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SoarerFury
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Re: 13b into AE86 Wed, 28 April 2004 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
talking about rotarys i saw a mazda cosmo engine in a ae86.. don't ask me how they fit the thing... Shocked
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[TOYROTA]
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Re: 13b into AE86 Thu, 29 April 2004 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SoarerFury wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 21:46

talking about rotarys i saw a mazda cosmo engine in a ae86.. don't ask me how they fit the thing... Shocked


Hehe obviously not a rotor head. I'm assuming you're talking about the motor from the JC ECCS Cosmo hence the fact you would be talking about the longer 20B 3rotor powerplant. That was what everyone was talking about at the start of the thread. Smile

Just 2clear up a coupla other things. It's FELIX Wankel, not frederick, and i recall someone's rotational(?lol) slurr about "inherent problems".... oooo don't go there. Back in the '70s yeah sure, millionaires made out of Apex seal manufacturers. But these days if it's built right in the first place with the right components, they last for donkeys. Someone who gets their mate who pulled his first rotor apart 12months ago to rebuild their motor with apex seals from here, oil seals from there, rotor housings from under the house, then they go out with no idea, slap synthetic oil in it (BIIIGGGGGG nono) and go for a strap before it's warm, belt the crap out of it and park it then shut it off, of course it's gonna blow. Maybe not the first time, but eventually it will.
You take your motor to someone who knows what they're doing, get it all done professionally, drive it properly, and you'll have it for many years to come. It's like they say, everyone straps rotors constantly all the time, it's fun, they're quick, and why not, but in the end don't go crying cause it's dead in a 1/4 the time(or less) of a piston engine. Also, dont then go and compare it to your under-strung (if that's a word) bluebird that you potter around in and drive 1/100th as hard as your rotor, and say they dont last. And before anyone tries to come back all guns blazing about their mates, cousins, boyfriends, second father twice removed, who had an RX7 built properly by some big-name rotary engine rebuilder = "He always drove it softly (who always drives rotors softly? Not many Nope ) and it blew on him after 6months." If that's the case, i'd tell you to go straight back to the person who built it and demand an explanation!
I know for a fact what they can and cant do, because i own one, unlike the majority of people who mouth off, some of them have never even been in one, let alone owned one! The fact that i own a low ten-second RX3 with, yes you read it right readers, STANDARD INTERNALS, proves my point thoroughly wouldn't you agree? And before i get the, "Yeah but it'll be dead in 3months"....ummm no sorry, it was built a good 3-4 years ago now and still going strong! Ohh whats that, i drive it twice a year? Ummm, wrong again, twice a week when i have the time, and then once a month roughly there's the odd track day, yes readers, circuit racing a ten second car on standard internals. Plus the fact it's on a 10,000rpm cutout and sees that many of the times it's been started.
I know there's a lot of cinical people out there who won't beleive it, but you can call RXEngineering in Newcastle yourselves any time you like and enquire about PRO-10Z personally. I would say you can see it as described at this years fast fours jamboree but i am, and not because it's about to blow, but i am re-building it in order to have the internals done to allow me to run more boost and drop into the 9's! So there you have it, for all those that didnt know, or for all those that knew but didn't know what to say when confronted with people mouthing them off, feel free to use the above information anyday!

p.s. I know whoever mad that little remark questioning rotaries "inherent problems" meant no harm, just know that this 'outlash' was definately not aimed at you, it just inspired me to inform everyone about my views. It's obvious though that there are many people who like to go around and bad mouth rotors and other types of cars, these people annoy me but once again if we all had the same interests it would be a very boring world. Just dont take it too far with the slagging, fortunately i havn't come across anyone like this on TOYMODS, verry pleased! cheers


[Updated on: Thu, 29 April 2004 15:10]

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Statts
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Re: 13b into AE86 Fri, 30 April 2004 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Depends on what you are after really. I guess lower power is good for through the hills but extra power is good for the drift. I won't trade my SR20DET AE86 for anything when it comes to bagging 4th gear through a corner.

Chris
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lang
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Re: 13b into AE86 Fri, 30 April 2004 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
[TOYROTA

wrote on Fri, 30 April 2004 01:05]
SoarerFury wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 21:46

talking about rotarys i saw a mazda cosmo engine in a ae86.. don't ask me how they fit the thing... Shocked


... synthetic oil is a big no no ...




theres nothing wrong with synthetic, i use a semi synthetic oil. which is what mildren's use in all their cars.

but this is off topic so if anyone wants more info about oils in rotors do a search for the 15 page thread on ausrotary.com on the topic

(just wanted to clear that up)
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improvedae86
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Re: 13b into AE86 Fri, 30 April 2004 05:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I second that Smile Chris
But just putting the engine will not be such a hard task , but the difference between it being a usable car , and a complete useless heap will not be very easy . I remember the days when i got my car first going with the stock diff 13" wheels ,stock suspension i was like driving in the wet even when it was dry . Then came the second round on modifications which was all the normal sprinter suspension modifications {as most people post about} and brake mods{the normal conversions } that could get the car around to road at a fare speed but to to safely . But when you start to go over the limit of this old car , then throw all that crap away , and all that remains toyota is the body , so if you not a complete ae86 nut , or just did it to because you can , or to shit porsche owners at the track . Why not just start with a rotary powered car , i have been there with rx2's and rx3's and there where great cars a little unaerodynamic and well unpredictable when on the edge { maybe due to the dated steering design } which i guess you could work on { i never did thats maybe why my rx3 cleared a big patch of trees one night }. And while on the topic of steering there is no way you could control a ae86 with that power with the standard steering turns lock to lock , so thats one more thing you will have to change ,which after looking at this in a shell i am messing about for this same conversion { will try to post a picture later } is going to be a nightmare which would be easy if you wanted to completly stuff the front suspension geometry forever , which is ok if you go to the sr because you throw the front end away anyway . Its all i guess how fast you want to go ? i am happy with 5 secs to 100kph 250kph topspeed if i wanted to go faster safely another car a would pick . Thats my thoughts on this subject .


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ed_ma61
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Re: 13b into AE86 Fri, 30 April 2004 06:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
stop making me come back in here deleting CRAP

keep it up and it will be locked

*strike 2*
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Youngy
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Re: 13b into AE86 Fri, 30 April 2004 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
improvedae86 wrote on Fri, 30 April 2004 15:50

.....which would be easy if you wanted to completly stuff the front suspension geometry forever, which is ok if you go to the sr because you throw the front end away anyway.



Just wondering what you replaced the front end with when you put your SR in and threw the old gear away?

Thanks
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[TOYROTA]
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Re: 13b into AE86 Sat, 01 May 2004 09:51 Go to previous message
Hehe yeah that whole oil thing, it's a never ending saga. Yeah go to the Ausrotary forum and take a look yourselves, it's really a here and there issue.
I've seen many cases where rotors run only on fully-synthetic oil have been stripped down after a blow to find the rubber oil seals 'dead' and seals and rotors all carboned-up from what is described by people "in the know" as not-suitable oil resulting in the dead motor. All cases i've heard and seen seem pretty convincing, the car running perfect A/F ratios, oil metering pump running correctly (not wired open lol) and what not. HOWEVER having said that, i have also seen synthetic-run motors stripped down and shown to be in quite good condition. I guess it really is an issue, both sides having many avid supporters however personally i agree 100% with the comments made by someone on Ausrotory who said, quote:

"The fact of the matter is none of us have the research and development capabilities to know for sure

This thread is just hearsay, anecdotal evidence, and at best, very isolated examples on single engines subject to uncontrolled external variables.

Mazda say, dont use synthetics.

I realise this may not necessarily indicate a *real* issue with Synthetics, but until such a time as proper scientific evidence in controlled experiments is done with proper logical conclusions you cant say otherwise.

The reasons for using synthetic engine oil in this thread are fallacious."


I couldnt have said it better. As said above, Mazda themselves, the producers of these engines say not to use them, but i agree with you in saying that there is proof that it can be run with good results, under what circumstances however i'm not sure. Maybe there is an issue with semi-synthetic verses full synthetic? I've seen many semi synthetics run fine in rotaries.
The only other conclusion i can come to is perhaps the quality of the oils in the first place. I know "Oils ain't oils" and i am aware that there can be quite significant quality differences between what seems to be two similar products. I have only heard good things about people using the MOBIL brand synthetics in their rotaries, however have seen as said before other brand synthetics used to destruction. I mean a LOT of other branded synthetic oils specifically say on the package, "Not for use in two-stroke motors", however, Mobil state that they have done tests with their Mobil1 product and say that it is safe for use in them.
I guess it really is as said before, hard to tell without sceintific evidence proven by thorough tests, so it's up to you if you want to take the "risk" as it were, in using them. I've had nothing but excellent results using the top-line mineral oils and as they say, "if it ain't broke, dont fix it!"
I personally choose to continue to use these products until i am 100% sure it is safe to use the synthetic type. If you want do otherwise then that's entirely up to you! Smile

cheers, André


PS, what diff are you running in your SR20-powered AE86? My friend put an FJ20ET in his and keeps blowing everything he put in it, could very well be his driving style but it does pull some serious numbers. He was thinking about a Hilux rear end, can anyone give any advice on weather this would be a good idea? Used for drags a lot but really starting to get involved in circuit work. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Updated on: Sat, 01 May 2004 09:55]

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