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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Tue, 11 May 2004 10:50
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Hi guys, long time no see. I'm finally in a position to do some real work on the celica now that I have some spare cash and time and that the EFI is set up and running fairly well (Cept I need a new TPS).
I am looking towards supercharging, for street car use, maybe the occasional sprint run or something. What I want mostly is to have decent power (say ~300hp) but I want the motor to be bullet proof. Currently the motor is fairly standard, some light port work, 18r-gu with EFI conversion and electronic distributor, MT4 ecu, Unknown HP fuel pump, lift pump, surge tank, unknown injectors (most likely standard) 2 1/2" exhaust luckey mufflers.
I was thinking SC-14 (rebuild?), some head work, cams and valves/ports probably, maybe forgies and some decent rings and bearings. What else should I be looking at? Fuel system, Oil/Water system? I need a bit of guidance here, although I have rebuilt a number of NA engines i've never done any mods like this (all stock builds). Brands sizes etc would be a big plus so I can start ordering parts.
I have a budget up to about $2000. I would also like a W58 and hilux diff which may or may not happen at the same time (definitly need more money for that).
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Tue, 11 May 2004 10:56
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I believe you would need more than $2000 to build a bulletproof blown 18rg than has around 300 hp.
Perhaps consider turbo instead of supercharger, for my engine forgies are $1200 by them selves, let alone fuel system, transmission and the rest of the build etc.
Perhaps someone with more of an idea on 18rg can help you out a bit further.
Good Luck 
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Tue, 11 May 2004 11:10
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Yeah I know $2g ain't much and yes I have considered turbo but I think it would be even harder to do properly on a budget. I really would like to know how far this amount of money would get me, maybe 300hp is a bit optimistic. I am more than capable (and have many friends) to get the labor side of things done, and I have friends that can get me a small discount on some parts so I have some give there.
I have a very rough idea of costs I just need some clarification on what needs to be done to make a blown engine reliable (especially when driven hard) and how I would go about getting the most power from my budget (with the bullets in mind).
Here is what I have come up with so far, Please add specifics/change the list/add pricing etc.
Step one - basic SC-14 setup bolted onto my motor now would cost me about $400-$500 and I guess around 200hp (it's about 160hp now).
Step two - Better injectors/fuel pumps (can get wholesale),
Step three - Head-work (cams, valves, ports)
Step four - Block work, would like to stay standard bore if possible (I think with VW pistons you have to enlarge don't you), pistons, rings, bearings, water pump, oil pump, crank, fly wheel.
Step five - Drive train, clutch, gearbox, diff, brakes, suspension.
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Tue, 11 May 2004 11:48
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For starters if you want a good hp 18rgu engine then dont supercharge...Id be going turbo. Use some 7mgte injecters, maybe a sr20det turbo or something along them lines, 3 inch exhaust. How bullet proof do you want it...Maybe just run 18rc pistons and a metal head gasket should lower the compression plenty enough to run 15psi of boost without ever having any problems appart from replacing the head gasket occasionally which i think is standard with metal ones. Also maybe get some work done to the dizzy along the lines of different weights and stuff like that. Deffinetly invest in stainless valves though to stop them ever letting any compression out...happy hunting and remember take notes for all us guys that are in the building of a 18rgetu engine
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Tue, 11 May 2004 12:10
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thanks for your input. Like I said i'm relativly new to this type stuff but I have done a little bit of research and I think I would prefer the blower even at the sacriffice on bigger HP. I also didn't want to lower the compression much, i'd prefer to put in good fuel and drop the air pressure, tell me if i'm way off but I think that would give a more efficient engine (daily driver) I'll take your 7m injectors into consideration though. Can you tell me any specs on them?
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Location:
Rocklea qld
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Tue, 11 May 2004 12:16
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7mgte are about 430cc but i think even some 4agze injecters 365cc would be big enough for your application. Id be lowering the comnpression also even if its just with some 18rc piston...should be down around 8.2-1 ive been told
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Tue, 11 May 2004 12:20
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k, thanks for your input.
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Wed, 12 May 2004 05:40
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anyone help me anymore? Name of good books, web sites etc? I know some people have done this (i'm looking at you crosstek) 
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Wed, 12 May 2004 06:52
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I was gonna say, if you're going to get new forged pistons, go for something with a slightly higher compression ratio. If you're not, keep the standard pistons (which are fairly low comp anyway) & even get a thinner than standard head gasket (metal preferably). Then just make sure it's tuned properly & like you say use good fuel & keep boost a bit lower than you might otherwise.
Although it might not be as much of an advantage with suercharged, a higher C/R will help when off boost & to reduce lag, but they're hardly characteristics of a supercharger. Turbos on the other hand..... my 4A-GTE has 9:1 C/R.
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Location:
Toowoomba
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Wed, 12 May 2004 07:37
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Thanks bigworm.
If I decided to run with the standard pistons and bolt on a blower, how much power could I safely run? And could I run any decent cams with the standard valves? What size cams could I run?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Wed, 12 May 2004 07:59
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im looking at getting my 18R-GTE forgies build around the basic design of the 18R-GU piston (8.7:1 CR), and then besides a basic crank bearing reconditioning and updating the head for EFI, not too much else will be modified on the engine (maybe the oil pump shims to increase pressure for a turbo).
Hopefully i will be doing this SOMETIME soon!
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Wed, 12 May 2004 08:06
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i would also be using the bigport bigvalve head (88253 or 88270) and i rekon about 5-6psi would be ok. Thats a healthy increase either way...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Wed, 12 May 2004 09:03
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i have heard that only about 10psi max can be run into a 18RGT, not so, a newcomer on here {ra_28} and he also lives 3km away from me has a 18RGT in his RA28,
Its injected, with a {i think} T3 or T4}, EMS computer, hyperutectic 18RC pistons {8.2:1} a standard HG and 23psi, and he has gotten 375RWHP.
He has melted a piston in it but it wasnt fully tuned, so u can imagine what he'd get if it was fully tuned and maybe a bit less boost {to stop the melting possibility}.
i'd say u'd be best getting a 18RG a/c bracket and making a custom one from that design for the SC.
talk to bluewire, he has a 18RGZE
as for the engine build, if the bores are perfect, then just a hone and new set of chrome moly rings will be fine, just be sure to run them in properly {i wont get into THAT debate  }, get some good bearings, they are the same 18RC, 18RC, 8 RC ect ect, get a basic FULL gasket set, they cost like $200, so rather than waste the money on a uber exxy MHG and o-rings straight up, try the std HG and see how u go.
just make sure they skim the head as little as possible.
alex {ra_28} knows the guy who owns the 9 second 18RGT powered corolla here in brissie, he's running std cams {i think he may have said one is slightly modded}
definately get some better springs, $100 well spent.
Get the dizzy re built to retard when it hits boost or else it'll ping badly.
ge here to see what happened to my head
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=34934&start=0&rid=1399&S=663c1c020cb 3dc9501eb4066150ca30c
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Building a bullet-proof blown 18rg
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Thu, 13 May 2004 09:28
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Melting pistons is more often than not a result of leaning out in FI cars (turbo and super) so tuning can do alot to rectify that!
Still 23psi sounds pretty high - but clearly 20 or so PSI is possible.
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