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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Fri, 07 May 2004 12:12
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I have a car that i race on the salt lakes that has a 1JZ-GTE at the moment. We are running 204 MPH at the moment, and to go much faster is looking like a bucket load of cash. I am thinking of changing to a 2JZ-ge, which put me in a different class, and most of the stuff I have will be able to transfer across. Has any one had any experience with these motors? What sort of power should I expect, and how much work and money is needed. I was thinking of transferring the intake and injectors from the 1JZ across, as well as the Wolf computer, and converting the engine to multicoil as well. Is there any difference between the 1JZ-GE and 2JZ-GE heads in regard to combustion chamber size etc?
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Fri, 07 May 2004 13:39
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Are you intending to run the 2JZGE as a turbo setup or non turbo?
Lots of americans bolt turbos straight on to the 2JZGE for an easy 400hp odd.
IF you intend running the 1JZGTE turbo gear on the 2JZGE, then the entire head will have to be swapped along with loom etc. Its a block swap to gain the extra .5L.
And the GE bottom end is pretty robust. Very similar design to that of the 2JZGTE, sharing many similar parts with the main lacking feature, being oil squirters.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Fri, 07 May 2004 21:21
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2JZGE responds quite well to hotting up (for an NA) but you'll never get the power of the 1JZGTE (unless you spend the aforementioned shitload).
2JZGE head chamber volume size is around 41cc. Can't comment on 1JZGE (I have one but I'd prefer to keep it together).
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Sat, 08 May 2004 08:06
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I was thinking of non turbo, but using the turbo intake and injectors, which should be plenty big, as well a stransferring the multi coil as well. We are running 20 Pounds on a TO4, and I don't think we can reliably get much more out of it without killing the thrust bearings. The 1JZ is around 350KW at the rear wheels, would 200 KW at the wheels be gettable for a 2JZ-GE?
I thought the 2.5l head may have smaller combustion chambers, and give me more comp for free, but there seems to be very little info around about them. Every one goes straight to the turbos.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Sat, 08 May 2004 08:25
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The port runners on the turbo manifold are different to the N/A ones.
You would have to cut and weld the 1JZ intake onto the 2JZGE runners..........but why?? the 2JZGE intake manifold is alot better!!!
To get serious power from a 2JZGE you would be ditching the manifold for ITB's.
You would have to do some SERIOUS work to get that figure.
Im making 122rwkw stock engine with 2.25in exhaust, and GT is just shy of 150rwkw with management and ITB's.
Big $$$ and big ask!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Sat, 08 May 2004 11:37
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I thought that using the turbo manifold would let me use it's bigger injectors. I think the 2JZ-GE use top feed injectors, so I thought this would save me some cost. I don't think ITB would help me a huge amount. I am not looking for crisp throttle off the line, but good stong torque from about 3000, and power to 7500 or 8000. How much head work would be needed? Based on my previous experience with pushrod 6 and 8's, it was head work, bigger valves and cam. From what I gathered when looking at the 1JZ, cams for these things are ridiculously expensive. I assume this is because they can't be reground, and there is not much of a market, or something. I was counting on the bottom end staying untouched. The turbo motor was running 7700 rpm at 20 PSI, and had no problems, so if the GE is half as strong, I don't see any problems there.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Sat, 08 May 2004 11:53
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Modify the fuel rail and run bigger injectors if you want, but the turbo manifold wont help you much.
If it was superior, the factory one would be that way too.
It has strong torque right on from about 3000rpm 
Headwork...yes, exhaust ports are the restriction, currently doing some work on my 2J head, just a tidy up relly.
Valves? waisting your money unless its a 600hp 2JZGTE.
Cams....big $$$ HKS make an intake cam, but distributor gear on exhaust means you need a regrind.
If you want to run to 8000rpm you will need new lifters.
Factory rev limiter is around 7200rpm
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Sat, 08 May 2004 12:10
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not to mention new springs as well.
dont forget there are 24 little valves here...not your normal 12 or 16 with a Pushrod v6/8.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Sun, 09 May 2004 05:56
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| jbrough wrote on Sat, 08 May 2004 21:37 |
I don't think ITB would help me a huge amount.
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But it will. If you want big power out of a NA 2JZ, the factory inlet gear has to be thrown away. Big cams, some sensible headwork and ITB's might get you close to your goal, but you're going to have to rev that bitch pretty hard to get the numbers you're talking about.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Sun, 09 May 2004 06:26
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You'll have to turn it to around 9000 if you want that sort of power. The standard manifold is all about improving torque at lower rpms. I'm not sure that it is ideal for high rpm work.
The Options 400 ps 2JZGE has 55mm ITBs, 6:1 extractors, 312 degree cams, coil on plug ignition, headwork and Motec management and God knows what compression ratio.
Why don't you just turbo the 2JZGE? Plenty of Yanks have gone this way with excellent results. The bottom end is extremely sturdy (essentially the same as the GTE save for the oil squirters). There are gaskets available from the US that will adequately decompress the motor.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Sun, 09 May 2004 06:31
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I think our friend is considering changing to an atmo engine as it puts him in a different class for racing. Turboing the 3.0lt would probably put him back in the same class as he is in with the 1JZ-T.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 02:34
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If I turn up with a turbo engine, 2.5l or bigger, they are going to want all the safety gear that you need to run over 200 mph. I thought of going to a 1G-GTE, but it is a major change. The 2JZ will bolt in using the 1JZ bits and pieces I have already made.
I also thought of ramming air in via a scoop to give me a slight boost effect. I think I should be able to get 1 or 2 pounds from this. The usual result with this is that you lean the engine out and burn holes in the pistons, but with the ECU, I can set that to avoid this, either by a bit og guess work, or by adding a slight boost on the dyno.
I love hard revving engines, and I was dissapointed this year that I didn't get to make a run with the 1JZ at 8000rpm, but time ran out, and we were pretty happy to be running over 200 mph with a motor/turbo/ecu that probably cost less than a set of pistons in the V8's that were running over 170 MPH.
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 02:48
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Can you post any pics of your car on the flats? I'd love to see them.
Cheers
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 10:21
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If you have the ability to scoop it, run 6 ITB's, in an enclosed plenum, sealed, bar the scoop attached straight to the top of it.
That should give you some decent top end feed 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 10:27
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Because I can't work out how to attach a file, you will need to have a look at the following for some pictures.
www.users.bigpond.com/jbrough
This is my personal web site with the details of the build and mods to the car since 2000.
http://www.dlra.org.au/2004-01.htm
This is the club web page, and there are some shots of the car, amongst a lot of others.
There are not a lot of 4's and 6's out there, and no HiPo imports. Apart from our car with a 1JZ, we have a baby Suzuki 800cc, running 115 mph, an RB30 doing 145, and an FJ20 in an older datsun. Just about all the other cars are V8.
I think it is time some of the ToyMods members showed the flag.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 10:38
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would be awesome fun......but id probably only pull 130mph
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 10:57
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Doesn't really matter how fast you go, it's how much fun you have getting there. Plus, if you choose your class carefully, you can claim to be the Australian record holder, which you will be.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 11:02
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haha not many atmo sixes hey?
haha no aftermarket wings!! Lucky i have a factory rear spoiler ...........which creates drag 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 12:10
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Not many blown cars at all. With the traditional V8's and 6's, you need big dollars for a strong blown motor.
Most of the atmo 6's are Holden's. A 202 in an LJ Torana running 145 mph (232Kmh). 2L Nissan Bluebird 115 MPH (184KmH).
FJ Holden with original motor running 111 mph (117Kph) Now thats scary. 146 Mph (233 Kmh)from a NA RX7.
Almost no wings. They might look good, but they cost speed. Cars that are going over about 250 Kmh start to need something to hold them down, but under this there is usually no need. The trick is to build weight into the car wherever possible, and as low as possible. The salt does not have the depressions in the surface that can cause a car to get the wobbles up at speed, and when it does let go on the lake, they spin rather than roll. And there is nothing hard to hit for a long way. We have had cars spin at over 200 mph, and the only thing that need replacement was the underwear.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 10 May 2004 22:27
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this is MENTAL!!
where did u manage to find the fuel tank from a sabre?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Tue, 11 May 2004 00:35
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I'd love to try my car on the salt flats. I've had it up to 270km/h, but once I have my new 17" wheels it will be geared for a top speed of 330, and I'd love to have a crack at the 300 barrier one of these days!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Tue, 11 May 2004 12:08
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In the 60's/70's there were heaps of the Sabre fuel tanks around. The Air force used them for ages, and this was before in flight refueling. I got mine of an old tobacco farm near Myrtleford in NE Vic. There was a local mob making tobacco spayers, and they used the Sabre tanks for the chemical tank. It fitted between the rows of the plants, didn't rust and were cheap.
That bike is scary. I am the retiring chief steward of the meeting, and that bike gave me nightmares when I saw it roll up. It seemed to ride OK, although they lost the blower drive pulley off the front of the crank, which stopped them running.
There is a feature on one of the owners and the bike in the latest Street machine mag, he is a former Australian speedway bike champ.
Amazing how many bike riders have limps.
Norbie, how did your welded intercooler go? I was spretty happy with mine, 20 pounds boost with a 10 degree above ambient rise.
Car do not go as fast on the salt as people expect. Speed measurement at those speeds on the road are pretty inaccurate.
To run a car at the salt, you need to make quite a few mods, which can be enough to scare street driven cars away.
Welded roll bar (bolted through floor)
Fire system
Steel flywheel
Steel scattershield around flywheel and clutch
3 inch 5 point harness
Drivers suit and helmet
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Tue, 11 May 2004 13:37
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where is it held? should hold a little unoffical meet one day after everyone else is gone
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Tue, 11 May 2004 22:42
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| jbrough wrote on Tue, 11 May 2004 22:08 |
Norbie, how did your welded intercooler go? I was spretty happy with mine, 20 pounds boost with a 10 degree above ambient rise.
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I had some minor problems with the end tanks flexing under high boost which resulted in cracks, but with extra bracing welded on that's no longer a problem. It performs very well indeed at up to 20psi and for the money I spent I'm quite happy. People laugh at its bodgy appearance, but it works so what do I care?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Wed, 12 May 2004 07:13
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The meeting is held in outback Sth Australia. It is a bit hard to sneak around as the gates to the area are usually locked. It is 160K from the bitumen up past Port Augusta.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Fri, 14 May 2004 07:13
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 12 May 2004 06:42 |
People laugh at its bodgy appearance, but it works so what do I care?
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I believe you should have this made up as a sticker, and put it on your car...
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Fri, 14 May 2004 08:55
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"Centerlink Performance"
And get one made up for Ed as well 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Fri, 14 May 2004 09:58
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LMAO
Screw you guys.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 17 May 2004 07:13
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Norbie, You are on the money. My cars are a bit similar, I like making things my self, and my view is that "When the flag drops, the bullshit stops"
I know there are a lot of people who put a great deal of faith in either brand names, or price tags, with the belief that the more expensive item must be better than a cheaper one. Actaully, my wife is like that!
I am extremely happy with the HP from my 1JZ, and I sometimes struggle with some of the problem people have with much bigger dollar set ups. I figure that I am either lucky, or have a better idea of what it takes to build a set-up.
My street car has been running high 11 sec passes for over 15 years now, on a low buck 350 Chev. I knocked it down from 12.3 to 11.8 without touching the driveline, but just changing spring rates and other fiddly stuff. I had been told that it couldn't be done. The car is still running the same engine, still goes like crazy, and apart from shitting diffs, hasn't had any mechanical problems over all thos years.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 17 May 2004 22:50
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jbrough
If you do decide to Turbo your 2JZGE it will need valve springs. The stock springs will not handle any decent amount of boost.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 17 May 2004 23:48
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Seated pressure is only 42-46 lbs.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Mon, 17 May 2004 23:57
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whats the 2jzgte seated pressure?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Tue, 18 May 2004 00:01
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Same.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Tue, 18 May 2004 00:04
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 thought so
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Tue, 18 May 2004 07:02
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We have just fitted a set of springs to a 2JZGE... with a turbo. Will let you know how it goes.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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 2JZGE injector question
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Wed, 19 May 2004 01:55
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GT,
The springs are not for a 2JZGE as such but fit great and give us around 80lb on the seat.
I'd rather not say what car as the customer has requested it remain confidential. Its being done here atwork, not a club project. Its going well but having a few issues due to some previous workmanship
What are the factory Injectors rated at ? and what do they look like, type etc.
Thanks
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Wed, 19 May 2004 03:29
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standard injectors are 315cc @ 41psi from memory. are they the pink ones?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Wed, 19 May 2004 04:10
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315 cc/min, 13.8 ohm. Brown.
It'll go like a shower of shit.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Thu, 24 June 2004 00:33
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GT,
Can you confirm the factory Head gasket is .4mm thick when compressed ? The 10:1 Comp is too high for the desired boost/rwkw goal.
PS.... The new Valve springs work great !
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Thu, 24 June 2004 02:45
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| thetoyman75 wrote on Thu, 24 June 2004 10:33 |
GT,
Can you confirm the factory Head gasket is .4mm thick when compressed ? The 10:1 Comp is too high for the desired boost/rwkw goal.
PS.... The new Valve springs work great !
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god, the saga continues huh?
that number sounds familiar rod, but confirm with dave.
whats the strategy now? any progress since we spoke last?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Thu, 24 June 2004 06:11
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Pretty sure. 0.4 or 0.3mm.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How does the 2JZ-GE hot up
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Thu, 24 June 2004 09:18
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Thanks GT
Ed, The Saga was delayed due to some theiving cunt borrowing the microtech out of the car.
Mind you its now running an Autronic with MSD ignition so is a much nicer set up.
Just waiting on some bits ex Japan now.
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