| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
 CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 01:39
|
 |
I can get my hands on a brand new 3.5kg (large) CO2 fire extinguisher bottle...
im just guessing, but would this be suitable for storage of nitrous oxide (pressure rating etc). would someone like CIG/BOC take issue with refilling a CO2 with N2O?
Also, are bottle fittings (threads etc) all standard? will one regulator from one bottle fit onto another? just wondering if NOS branded bottle fittings would be likely to thread in without issue?
cheers
ed
|
|
|
Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 03:28
|
|
Can't comment on the fittings but people get a little edgy with oxy bottles and such as they are strong oxidisers and will ignite on oil/grease. I think this is the main reason why N2O is illegal.
I think someone wants a big bottle of giggle gas hooked up and not have anybody suspicious. 
If your gonna do that, why not go full sik and use an 80L LPG bottle in the hatch. 
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 03:43
|
|
fittings are different on many bolltes, and i'm not sure you can actually screw in a regulator to the fire extinguisher bottle..
BOC has recently altered their regulator fittings too...
for the purpose of further distinguishing flammable, oxidising, toxic and non-reactive bottles.
i think air is now considered an oxidiser, and will be different to argon/nitrogen..
anyway..
BOC/Linde will definitely take exception to filling the bottle.
since they are liable for anything that occurs if they do, they won't..
you 'could' get adaptor fittings made, but i would not.. between the bottle valve and the regulator, you have full bottle pressure (15-20,000kpa+?)= badddd if something breaks.
nitrous is really not to be messed with. it is slightly safer than oxygen, in that you need a little higher temps before it starts reacting with everything, but is not what i would consider safe 
it definitely helps start BBQ's tho!! (not as cool as those crazy bastards with liquid O2 tho)
if you really wwantd to be sly, get a proper large nitrous bottle, and paint it in fire extinguisher colours!!
btw, don't you know any dentists
Cya, Stewart
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 04:21
|
|
| oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 09 June 2004 13:43 |
(not as cool as those crazy bastards with liquid O2 tho
|
haha i got shown some photos of a guy doing that.
how would you like your steak....ultramegaridiculouslystupidlycrispycharco lstyle well done
|
|
|
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 04:47
|
|
When this has been done it has been using a nitrous bottle painted and stickered to look like a fire ext, except that for the keen eyed people, the lack of trigger and gauge mechanism on it can be a give-away.
Another sneaky install I have seen/found has been in a sealed section of car roll cage which was gassed up from a blue bottle prior to the race starting. A line and switch valve is hooked up and the gas released when the lights turn green. Gave a great squirt off the line and made it hard for anyone behind you to catch you over a short race distance.
Mitch.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 04:52
|
|
| Quote: |
I have seen/found has been in a sealed section of car roll cage which was gassed up from a blue bottle prior to the race starting.
|
Now that's cool.
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 05:20
|
|
|
the idea was not to have a 'stealth' bottle in the car (fuck, i mean, its like 70cm tall - no chance of stealth whatsoever) rather a cheapo way out of buying a NOS bottle...
|
|
|
Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 06:39
|
|
One thing we used to do with liquid O2 was put 10-20ml in a 600ml plastic Coke bottle. Fasten cap, shake and throw. As you know liquid O2 will expand to 800 times it's volume when it turns to it's gas form at normal room temprature.
Just imagine 8L-16L of gas in a 0.6L container. What a BANG!
One guy fed pure O2 into his beater car, melt down. I won't even get into the other stuff we got into. Every gas including N2O was readily available to me while working there. Maybe the reason I won't use it in my car. But what ever turns your crank is cool with me.
|
|
|
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 14:17
|
|
Nitrous oxide bottles also have an internal tube that ensures liquid nitrous oxide is fed into the line until the bottle is empty. This is why nitrous bottles are best mounted on an angle, with the correct bottle orientation, so during hard acceleration the liquid nitrous is pushed toward the end where the pick up tube is.
If you can afford to build a nitrous oxide dedicated engine then the cost of the bottle should be insignifcant.
As Stewart said, the pressures that are involved, you dont want to stuff about with dodgy homemade adaptors.
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 14:22
|
|
| earlyrolla wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 00:17 |
If you can afford to build a nitrous oxide dedicated engine then the cost of the bottle should be insignifcant.
|
every $ saved through backyard engineering masterpieces adds up
crikey, if i paid retail dollars for brand name bits-o-crap (tm) to assemble into an engine build, fuck, id hate to think what the engines would cost. if part B can do an equivalent job to part A and costs 300% less, why would i bother...
alas, this time it didnt work, but always worth finding out isnt it?
|
|
|
Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 14:44
|
|
|
It's just something you don't want to play with. For safety reasons it's better to do it properly.
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 14:48
|
|
a pressure bottle is a pressure bottle - assuming it was rated to the right certifications, and CIG/BOC were happy with it etc, and it had the correct fittings, theres zero reason it would be 'dodgy'.
but its not, so... *shrug*
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 14:55
|
|
unless you get the nitrous fittings, mash them into the Co2 bottle and paint it in shiny NAWWWS colours 
heh heh...
hmm, didn't know about the liquid siphoning thing tho.. learn something new everyday
i do know that propylene doesn't have tube because it is liquid and vapourises poorly
the worst they can say is ... no... 
|
|
|
Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Wed, 09 June 2004 23:07
|
|
ed did u price a N2O bottle?
how much?
|
|
|
Location:
A.C.T
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 02:21
|
|
| ra23celica wrote on Wed, 09 June 2004 14:47 |
Another sneaky install I have seen/found has been in a sealed section of car roll cage which was gassed up from a blue bottle prior to the race starting. A line and switch valve is hooked up and the gas released when the lights turn green.
Mitch.
|
Yeah that's the most stupid thing i've ever heard of lol. I remember someone in NASCAR i think it was, tried the exact same thing, this was many years ago mind you. Anyways, nobody could figure out how he would just pull those extra carleangths on everyone right at the cruicial point in the race, until that is, he rolled his car and the rollcage exploded... I'm pretty sure he died but i cant be sure. So yeah, not exactly the smartest idea in the world.
André
|
|
|
Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 03:23
|
|
In most countries tanks and bottles have to be painted with a specific colout scheme designating the gas they hold. For instance O2 tanks are painted green with a white stripe and lettering in the US. In Canada they are painted white with a green stripe and lettering are the colours.
Try to fill a tank with a gas it is not designated for and no one will do it here.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 03:50
|
|
do CO2 tanks store the gas is liquid or gas form?
if the later, then the CO2 tank might not be suitable for storing NO2 which comes as a liquid and requires heating to boil off enuf gas for (recreational) automotive use?
would not be fun if the bottle shatters on you at an inoportune moment :-0
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 06:10
|
|
| [TOYROTA |
wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 12:21]| ra23celica wrote on Wed, 09 June 2004 14:47 |
Another sneaky install I have seen/found has been in a sealed section of car roll cage which was gassed up from a blue bottle prior to the race starting. A line and switch valve is hooked up and the gas released when the lights turn green.
Mitch.
|
Yeah that's the most stupid thing i've ever heard of lol. I remember someone in NASCAR i think it was, tried the exact same thing, this was many years ago mind you. Anyways, nobody could figure out how he would just pull those extra carleangths on everyone right at the cruicial point in the race, until that is, he rolled his car and the rollcage exploded... I'm pretty sure he died but i cant be sure. So yeah, not exactly the smartest idea in the world.
André
|
A little closer to home, Toyota did it with their GT4s and had themselves disqualified from the WRC one year because they hid their NOS in the roll cage (if I remember correctly). Not sure if they hid thin bottles in there, I don't think they actually filled the roll cage with gas.
As an aside, some of the guys from RobotWars actually use their robot chassy as an extra tank for some of the gas thats needed, much the same way.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 06:17
|
|
| thechuckster wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 13:50 |
do CO2 tanks store the gas is liquid or gas form?
|
CO2 is one of those special substances that does not exist in liquid form under normal conditions. Ever heard of dry ice? It's CO2 in solid form that "melts" straight to gaseous form (although apparently is does exist as a liquid for a very brief period in between).
I'm trying to remember the name for these substances but high school chemistry was too long ago. 
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 06:19
|
|
| HKSPete wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 16:10 |
A little closer to home, Toyota did it with their GT4s and had themselves disqualified from the WRC one year because they hid their NOS in the roll cage (if I remember correctly). Not sure if they hid thin bottles in there, I don't think they actually filled the roll cage with gas.
|
No, Toyota cheated by designing a very clever restrictor that opens up when the engine is under load; they never used nitrous (that would have been too easy to detect). I've heard about the nitrous in the rollcage thing, it was used by a few teams in NASCAR ages ago before they got found out.
|
|
|
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 11:18
|
|
I agree that you shouldnt have to pay 300% more for A if B does the same job. (Seems to be the case with name brand stuff like HKS etc).
Backyard masterpieces are always good
And, yep, you can only but ask. That is what the forums are all about!
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 12:17
|
|
| Norbie wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 16:17 |
I'm trying to remember the name for these substances but high school chemistry was too long ago.
|
process is "sublimation"
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 12:19
|
|
| [TOYROTA |
wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 12:21]| ra23celica wrote on Wed, 09 June 2004 14:47 |
Another sneaky install I have seen/found has been in a sealed section of car roll cage which was gassed up from a blue bottle prior to the race starting. A line and switch valve is hooked up and the gas released when the lights turn green.
Mitch.
|
Yeah that's the most stupid thing i've ever heard of lol. I remember someone in NASCAR i think it was, tried the exact same thing, this was many years ago mind you. Anyways, nobody could figure out how he would just pull those extra carleangths on everyone right at the cruicial point in the race, until that is, he rolled his car and the rollcage exploded... I'm pretty sure he died but i cant be sure. So yeah, not exactly the smartest idea in the world.
André
|
a few guys in the states in NHRA got caught out a few yars back for NOS, a few hid the botle in their fuel tanks and ran the braided line inside a huge fuel line going to the carbs/blower. Most got caught out cause of massive backfires and ppl kinda went "HMMMMMMMMMM", and a few ppl hit the wall and ripped the front mount fuel tanks open and theres a shiny blue bottle out in the open.
There was one guy who had an explosion in his pit area and they did a search on his car and found a bottle in his fuel tank
|
|
|
Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 14:22
|
|
| Norbie wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 15:47 |
| thechuckster wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 13:50 |
do CO2 tanks store the gas is liquid or gas form?
|
CO2 is one of those special substances that does not exist in liquid form under normal conditions. Ever heard of dry ice? It's CO2 in solid form that "melts" straight to gaseous form (although apparently is does exist as a liquid for a very brief period in between).
I'm trying to remember the name for these substances but high school chemistry was too long ago.
|
You mean sublimation?
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: CO2 Fire Extinguisher Bottle for Nitrous Oxide???
|
Thu, 10 June 2004 14:34
|
|
| rsdeo wrote on Wed, 09 June 2004 16:09 |
One guy fed pure O2 into his beater car, melt down.
|
Could you PLEASE elaborate on your story? Did the engine completely lean out?? Did the engine start pinging?? etc etc.
|
|
|
Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
|
|
|
