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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 06:49
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is anyone running aftermarket, adjustable 4 link control arms in their cars? just wondering about how much they actullay change the handling/feel of the car.
there is an artice about them on club4ag if anyone is interested.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 07:03
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I personally think they are only beneficial if you have lowered your car. It enables you to bring the geometry / pinion angle back to factory.
Also, you only need 2 adjustable not 4.
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 07:05
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I am, the car is much better off. But not really due to the bars themselves (although I would say they are stiffer - which helps), more on the fact that all four can be adjusted for length. This then allows you to get the diff and the diff pinion angle perfect for whatever height you run the car at.
Cheers
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 08:47
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i heard that they really stiffen up the rear end and made it oversteer alot easier.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 09:39
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i wish i could afford cusco pillow ball adjustable rear links
SOOOO expensive
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Location:
timaru NZ
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 10:07
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the adjustable top links will only really come into there own when they are equal length and parallel to the bottom ones. unfortunately it is only possible on dedicated race/rally cars as the link boxes come in to where the backset would be. the pandard rod should also be adjustable to allow for ride height changes.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 11:05
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garth, you seen the battle version ones? a bit cheaper...
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 11:29
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T3 make some with Heim joints too.
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Wed, 09 June 2004 16:11
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nah i had a look at some other ones on club 4ag, forget the name at this hour of the morning, but supposedly much better than the battle version/club4ag ones and only $300 US
what i want to know is: is it worth getting these?(im trying to set up a drifter here)
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Location:
timaru NZ
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 06:49
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4saken is that $300 US each or pair?
if you're got tools or know someone who has, chop the end off the top link and thread an appropriate sized rod-end and thread it on/in. you will need some stepped spacers to fit inside the bearing to make up the difference in the mounting point or re-weld the mount and narrow it up. it makes me laugh a bit when people quote rediculous money for 'named' parts that can easily be built by modifying the original.
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 06:59
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300US for the full 4 adjustable link system except the panhard rod. kills the battle version price and club 4ag price (nearly 700 US)
are they worth the 300 for the kit???
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:02
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Here is the T3 one, top notch Heim link setup. http://www.technotoytuning.com/t3_site_pages/produ cts/four_links.html
Considering getting it myself, but i might try nolethane mounts and stuff first. Who knows though, seeing as the Noltec mounts are $90 for the upper and anotehr $90 for the lower arms.
This might end up cheaper. Will have to cost it.
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Location:
timaru NZ
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:12
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i'd be most surprised if you got an engineer to undertake the whole job if it would cost half that. that price works out at roughly $600NZ +freight and the rod ends are vary in price but the 3/4" are only $25NZ, so multiply that by 8(if you want to be able to adjust both end of all four links and you have $200NZ worth of bits plus labour. in reality you only need the top link adjustable to give the diff a few degrees of inclination ,and unless they are parallel equal length as the bottom links you will still get inclination under spring compression.
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:14
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| Quote: |
Also known as rear trailing arms, our Rear Four Links feature Heim joints (Spherical Rod Ends) at both ends, with metric sizes for a direct fit! Zero Slop, and Zero Deflection. Eliminates Axle hop during acceleration and deceleration. Greatly improves to the ground traction and driver feedback. Traction is greatly improved (all the power gets to the ground without any wheel hop) and it is easier to break the rear end loose by "throttle on" even in wider drifting corners. Makes it a lot easier to control a drift with just the gas pedal. The whole rear end is super tight and not sloppy at all since there is no longer any diagonal movement of rear axle. Zero twist of the rear axle also. Every throttle input goes right to the ground.
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thats exactly the info im after(bold)! now, can anyone verify that as to being true? i certainly hope it is!
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Location:
timaru NZ
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:23
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sounds like a typical American blow-arse crock of shit , if you ask me.
unless they are equall length and parallel the set up WILL not do as greatly as it quotes.
as for diagoal movement, that where an adjustable panhrad rod comes in. the only true claim they make is that it will reduce slop and give you more 'feel', of course it bloody will, these no rubber cushioning except on your shocks in the whole arse end!!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:23
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Yeah, but part of what he is referring to there is the action of the panhard rod too.
As for creating your own, using heim links is much harder on the rod as a lot of shock will be transferred through. I have seen a converted link snap at the weld with thankfully no disasterous consequence. As such i would much prefer to have them made out of billet T6061 rather than welded pipe etc.
If you were to use rubber or nolethane bushes instead it is a lot easier to convert the existing links over, however this adds cost as you have to buy the nolethane bushes (AU$180 for  .
Its a reliability thing.
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Location:
timaru NZ
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:27
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$180AUS for each nolathane bush or is that a set?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:31
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Ergh, stupid 8 ) became
Its for two sets of four.
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Location:
timaru NZ
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:41
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The bummer is that you cant buy them in sets of 4.
Ill be doing what you are saying except on all four at first, but then i may go to a heim joint setup soon after.
Mine is a predominantly track car.
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Location:
NSW.south coast.Drifting
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 07:56
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but things will break doing what im going to do with the car anyways (same goes with takai). o well 
i think that the 4-link setup is more of a "i've done all i can do to the read end to stiffen it, what else" eg the kind of thing you do last.
what kind of things am i looking at fitting so my car behaves like T3 said? im about to fit a rear swaybar, got springs (going short stroke coilover up front soon). im thinking about making a kind of rear chassis brace (like a rear strut brace, but sprinters dont have rear struts) i heard someone else talking about this, saying to mount it behind the front seats or between the rear seatbelt anchors??? anyone done this/got any info?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 10:08
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See Steve-AE86, he has made some decent looking rear braces.
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Thu, 10 June 2004 10:40
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If you were to make tyour own 4 link rear and are worried about the shock loading snapping welds. Put Heim links on one end and Bushes on the other. While having a threaded section in the middle.
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Fri, 11 June 2004 01:21
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| fangsport wrote on Thu, 10 June 2004 17:23 |
sounds like a typical American blow-arse crock of shit , if you ask me.
unless they are equall length and parallel the set up WILL not do as greatly as it quotes.
as for diagoal movement, that where an adjustable panhrad rod comes in. the only true claim they make is that it will reduce slop and give you more 'feel', of course it bloody will, these no rubber cushioning except on your shocks in the whole arse end!!
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I have to agree completely with Fangsport on this one. To put in parallel trailing arms is a lot of work. Not a big deal if it is a track only car but you may have issues if you want to remain street registered.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Fri, 11 June 2004 01:26
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Can someone explain to me about the setup/location of trailing arms?
In my case (RA28 & AE86), there is a lower set and upper set. They are different lengths. Lowers are spaced quite far apart and uppers around as close together as they could be without interfering with the diff centre.
What is the ultimate setup, 4 equal length trailing arms? If so, how is this an advantage?
Also, is there any consideration taken into the spacing between upper & lower arms? Like do you want the lower arms as far away from the center as possible, and upper as close? Again, if anyone can elaborate on why it would be great.
.. this reminds me i need to get my 'how to make your car handle' book back that I lent.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Fri, 11 June 2004 01:39
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Ok I'll have a crack at it.
The upper and lower arms are not just coming back to the diff housing in a straight manner from the body. The lower arms are at an angle going towards the outside of the car and the upper arms are on an angle going towards the centre of the diff.
Thus you get a triangulted (spelling) set of traling arms if you looked down on the setup from above. This of course helps for torsional loads.
The upper arms being shorter than the lower arms will rotate through their travel on a shorter radius that the longer lower arms. Thus when the diff moves up and down in the suspension travel it is moving through an elliptical arc.
A better option is for the diff to move up and down on a fixed radius, to do this you would have to have upper and lower arms of the same length (in track cars they cut two slots into the floor pan and box them up, thus creating enough room for the upper arms to be the same length as the lower ones).
The panhard rod is there to keep the diff centred as it moves through the travel.
Hope this helps a little
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Fri, 11 June 2004 02:12
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Fri, 11 June 2004 11:26 |
What is the ultimate setup, 4 equal length trailing arms? If so, how is this an advantage?
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the problem is the diff pinion angle changing substantially with suspension movement.
tried asci, didn't work 
parallel just minimises, forwads, backwards, and rotation of the diff housing...
the longer the links, the less angle change there is for a given suspension movement.. seen dedicated offroaders? the parallel links are almost half the cars length...
Cya, Stewart
ps, and why billet T6061? (are you trying to say T6 6061?) rather than welded tube? what if the tube is chromoloy or has thick walls or?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Fri, 11 June 2004 02:16
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Thanks all for that info it is very helpful!
Young - with the triangulted (spelling) set of trailing arms... The lower I think the body end are further spaced that the diff end.
Would the upper basically be the same? - body ends of the trailing arms spaced apart more than at the diff.
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Fri, 11 June 2004 04:18
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Not sure what your trying to say there to be honest Joel. But basically the body side of things the trailing arms are closer together than on the diff side of things - kind of like an isosceles triangle with the diff axle (between the upper and lower arms being the base of the triangle).
Damn it would make more sense if I could do a little diagram like what Stewart did.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Fri, 11 June 2004 05:03
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something like this? (tried orthogonal(sp?) projection but got confused )
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Fri, 11 June 2004 06:56
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Haha very cool drawings
Thanks guys.
Hey by the way oldcorollas I haven't forgot those pics/measurements of the tvis. I'll get to it this weekend.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 4-link rear ends?AE86
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Sat, 12 June 2004 01:08
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Hey all,
I have a 2 link kit traction bars for sale if anyone is interested, its like a 4 link kit except only one horizontal bar instead of two. Made by macdonalds bros racing in melbourne, brand new in box unused, originally for an XD falcon but can be modified to suit any car, cost me $370 i'll sell them for $300
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