| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Sun, 04 July 2004 09:49
|
 |
I'm gunna buy this SA63 celica and it doesn't have as much power as it should and uses a bit of oil so i'm assuming the rings have gone and it's done over 300 thousand kms so a rebuild is long over due . I've never ever done this b4 and i no longer have the time (or patience  ) 2 do it myself
So any info would b good
Thanks
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Sun, 04 July 2004 09:51
|
|
dont rebuild a 2s-c. not worth the money, and it will never go hard!
Either find one off here or buy a 3sge 
|
|
|
Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Sun, 04 July 2004 10:09
|
|
How long is a piece of string?
Ring around engine reconditioners and get some quotes.
As prices are vastly different due to many possible variances.
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Sun, 04 July 2004 11:20
|
|
it doesn't need 2 go hard yet i'm gunna try and buy every single sa63 i can find untill i own every single 1 in tassie
Nah it's just they r hard 2 find an i can prolly sell it 4 more than what i will pay 4 it. Would it b hard 2 do the conversion cuz if i had a car 2 drive during the week and a Fun car 4 weekends . I'd do it to the car i have now but i can't afford 2 insure it
|
|
|
Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Mon, 05 July 2004 14:55
|
|
just go buy a shit ass st141 corona (2s-c engine) and make sure the engine works, then swap it over. Sell the corona parts and take the body to a wrecker 
|
|
|
Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Mon, 05 July 2004 23:54
|
|
I reccon you could swap in a 3sge without too much hassle.
You have the perfect base for conversion. Take the sump/oil pickup from the 2s-c. Use the 2s engine mounts, use the 2s/W5x bellhousing (needs to be shaved to have input shaft sit in spigot bearing you need to install), use your current g/box, use the 2s flywheel.
You will have to get a tube to run from the back of the motor to the front for radiator/coolant. Also the dizzy sits on the back of the cam, modification is required here too, but can be overcome in many ways.
All this info I have done from many hours of reading/research. If anyone has more info to share, I would greatly appreciate it.
3sgte is a different can of worms.
EDIT: Forgot to add, the intake manifold will foul on the bonnet, will need to be cut up and rewelded to sit lower and clear the bonnet. Extractors may have to be custom made, stock exhaust manifold may be usable, 2s exhaust manifold will not bolt on.
[Updated on: Mon, 05 July 2004 23:57]
|
|
|
Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 00:05
|
|
|
out of interest how much would i look at to recon a 3sge, thats not in a car at the moment, as aposed to one in a car?
|
|
|
Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 00:16
|
|
| Quote: |
out of interest how much would i look at to recon a 3sge, thats not in a car at the moment, as aposed to one in a car?
|
Well depends if you are doing it yourself or not. I would recommend the engine be out of the bay for a rebuild, unless ur a lazy cnut, but then why are you rebuilding it if ur that lazy?
Costs to consider, depends what you are freshening up...
Bottom end:
Rings, main/rod bearings, light hone (depending on condition, may require ridge ream/overbore, then more money must be spent).
There is more I havent mentioned. If you can get a low km 3sge from a wrecker/importer, you are probably better off as the costs will outweight eachother. I spent over $1000 reconditioning a 21R-C, dumb things ya do 
[Updated on: Tue, 06 July 2004 00:18]
|
|
|
Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 00:33
|
|
|
okay well actually this would be a low Km's 3sge, from a front cut, i guess i'll probably just replace all the seals, and timming belt b4 i drop it into my car.
|
|
|
Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 02:10
|
|
lol, sorry man, did kno what u meant
just check the condition of the motor all over, only replace if it looks like it needs to be replaced.
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 02:55
|
|
I just found out that my car has the same motor as a corona i was not happy now i look atmy car and see a 2 door corona.
ViPeR_NiPPleX. How muxh would this cost do u think i no enough to fit most of the stuff myself but i don't have a metalwork lathe so i'd have 2 get some of it done profesionally.
And in what car would i find a 3sge ? I don't car about cutting a hole in my bonnet cuz i can fiberglass a custom bonnet scoop that its hardly noticeable. But the main thing is cost there is a massive chance i've lost my licence so time isn't an option
Thanks guys
|
|
|
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 03:28
|
|
| Quote: |
i look at my car and see a 2 door corona.
|
Not necessarily a bad thing...could be a Corona GT
|
|
|
Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 03:44
|
|
Corona, horrible thing eh
I doubt you will need a lathe to do any part of this conversion. You may have to get your bellhousing shaved down 5mm, but that just needs someone with a mill or cnc.
I havent done this conversion before. But from what I have researched, its not impossible . LiL MiC's 3sge sprinter has the dizzy sitting on the front of the exhaust cam, so that gave me an idea for that.
The 3sge came in sw20 mr2's and celica st162/182/202. There are other JDM cars with 3sge's, particularily the altezza with the beam's 3sge.
Anyway, back to work
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 05:15
|
|
|
Lol most of my friends r on msn when they r at work and u read forums . I wish i could do that at my work . So it's not difficult 2 make a FWD motor work in a RWD ? I'll definatly look in2 it thanks 4 the info I can get my firewall and mudguards n stuff re shaped easy enough to fit everything I"m ring around wreakers now trying 2 find a 3sge . I was watching speedweek the on sunday and i saw this corona racing in sum under 2litre class so that makes me feel a little better.
|
|
|
Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 07:31
|
|
|
ummm hardest thing is the gearbox, get past that and all the drivetrains are right you shouldn't have a problem, i don't know much about sprinters, are they front mount engines? celica's have the front mount engines, MR2 rears, you would probably be looking at retro fitting the current gearbox and hope it holds.
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 07:50
|
|
Don't they put celica gearbox behind V8s ? so it should hold up.
It's sounding complicated but i'll c if ppl will do it for me and how much it will cost cuz i'm not donald trump 
|
|
|
Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 09:44
|
|
|
correction they put old school celica gearboxes behind V8 theres a difference there, the celica that you would get a 3sge will be FWD and the gearbox will not fit your car!!!
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 09:57
|
|
|
well my car is rwd so the 3sge engine swap is out of the question then ??? bugger i was getting excited
|
|
|
Location:
Langwarrin, VIC
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 11:19
|
|
Okay I think its time I cleared everything up as you are all confusing each other.
The 3sge for your conversion will come as a FWD motor. Don't bother with the gearbox that is joined to it as it is junk for its new application.
The majority of parts required are already on the sa63. The main parts required are the engine mounts, the bellhousing, the flywheel, the gearbox, the 2s sump and oil pickup, etc.
The critical part for RWD conversion is the bellhousing. It must be modified for this application though. It has to be shortened to allow the input shaft to sit far enough towards the crank. Otherwise it would sit too far out and not sit in the spigot bearing that needs to be added to the back of the crankshaft. It is not normally installed in a FWD application.
The gearbox should sit in the same spot, hence no modifications to the g/box crossmember or chassis is required. This is all in the hope that the 3sge motor sits in the same position as the original 2s-c.
There are a couple of other problems with this conversion that make it unappealing to many is the dizzy will foul on the firewall. One solution is to mount the dizzy cap on the front of the motor instead of the back. A custom bracket will have to be made so the rotor button can sit happily on the front of the camshaft.
Next you will have to have a pipe run from the back of the motor to the front because the coolant outlet is on the back of the motor. A 90deg bend maybe needed for clearance required.
Also the 3sge in a fwd configuration sits at a 15-20deg angle in its native engine bay. This would normally prove to be a problem with oil draining from the head back to the sump. So need to keep an eye that the oil is draining correctly. The 2s sump and pickup should be suitable to allow proper collection of oil by the oil pump.
Please keep in mind that I have yet to perform this conversion myself. I am confident that provided you could convert the 3sge to a rwd config, you wont have any more trouble swapping this motor in than any other imho.
If anyone has anything else to contribute or discuss i'd love to hear it as I am curious to anyone elses relative experience.
Cheers,
James aka ViPeR_NiPPleX
PS, im not at home, hence im writing with Lectric's account 
EDIT:
I forgot to mention the flywheel. Use the 2s one with the 3sge. Unlike using it for the 3sgte conversion, the 3sge should have a 6 bolt pattern at the back of the crank, the same as the 2s-c. Use the standard clutch and starter motor.
[Updated on: Tue, 06 July 2004 11:24]
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 11:29
|
|
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!
Well any1 now where i can get a 3sge ?
preferably in tassie but not essensial.
Oh and any idea how much this will cost ?
thanks
|
|
|
Location:
Langwarrin, VIC
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 11:35
|
|
pick an engine importer. but first, do some research on the actual motor.
cost will vary greatly. to ensure you get a complete loom/ecu/etc i would buy a frontcut.
set aside maybe 2-3grand for this conversion. the more you do yourself, the more money you can keep.
main cost is obviously the engine itself. depening on what tools you do and dont have will alter the cost of conversion.
Cheers,
ViPeR_NiPPleX
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 11:40
|
|
I've never done anything this serious b4 . do u no of ne importers with a good reputation ?
And what is a front cut ??? like the whole front end cut off ?
sorry for sounding stupid but u guys use different terms 2 what i'm used 2. I could probly do it all myself but i have 2 work and stuff so time is of the essence so i'll take my old motor out and maybe sumother stuff but ulimatly it will need 2 b fitted by a pro .
ECU ?? does that mean it will b fuel injected ?
|
|
|
Location:
Langwarrin, VIC
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Tue, 06 July 2004 11:48
|
|
man, u should just pay me to come over and convert it for you
anyway... yes the motor is fuel injected, rather sofisticated too.
this is a pretty thorough conversion, it might be easier to just swap in the same motor. you could look at the 2S-E that came in the SV21?? imho, not worth the time, but probably a safer option.
|
|
|
Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Wed, 07 July 2004 06:01
|
|
|
any jap importer will likely have a front cut that will interest you, the other option is a 3SGTE, why don't you look in to getting one of those?
|
|
|
Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Wed, 07 July 2004 06:59
|
|
Greetings,
I have a Gen2 3SGE that I bought from a JDM importer to convert to RWD with a W58 transmission. The crankshaft that came in my motor has EIGHT 12mm ultra fine pitch bolts mounted on a 69mm bolt circle. It does NOT have six bolts as mentioned in the text. I have been told that 86-89 Gen1 3SGE motors used in the Celica FWD ST162 came with 6-bolt crankshafts; that would have to be confirmed by some one other than myself.
I measured up a shitload of things, and found that, with the standard 10mm deep Toyota pilot bearing, a 1mm thick sandwich plate, and an unshaven W58-compatible bellhousing, you will only have about 2mm of bearing to transmission input shaft pilot engagement; if you peel 5mm off the block side of the bellhousing, the input shaft will have about 7mm of engagement, putting it at least past the centerline of the bearing.
I haven't completed my RWD conversion yet, but it has been an enjoyable challenge so far...
Cheers
|
|
|
Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Wed, 07 July 2004 07:36
|
|
Thankyou 510rob for confirming my suspicions. Interesting about the 6 bolt crank only in the first gen 3sges, good to kno. What car are you putting the 3sge into?
Dunkymonkey, the 3sgte is a shitload more work to convert. For starters, the turbo with stock fwd exhaust manifold will foul on the bellhousing, so a custom turbo manifold will need to be constructed. Also the flywheel will need to have 8 boltholes in it. Hence for my conversion I have decided to have a custom machined flywheel made up to suit. The other main problem I am aware of is on the turbo side of the block, one or two of the bolt holes for the engine mount have been ground off or dont exist in the casting. This will require pretty serious modifications to the engine mounts.
Cheers,
James aka ViPeR_NiPPleX
|
|
|
Location:
Vancouver
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Wed, 07 July 2004 23:04
|
|
James,
At this point, I am building a motor project, and I am considering the car to be a separate and almost nonexistent component, mostly to segregate costs from each portion of my little hobby project; once the motor is successfully mated to the transmission, and the starter engages the flywheel, and eveything works in that sense, then I'll tell you what car it's going into. I decided to keep quiet about things until I know they will work, otherwise I'll just sound like so many others who have tried to make it all sound so easy, but who cut corners, did things incorrectly, or hastily, or dangerously... (in my opinion of course)
As far as a flywheel is concerned, I'm going to make one out of heat-treated and stress-relieved 4140 Low Alloy Steel, and I'm going to try to solve a bunch of otherwise stupid interfacing problems within the design of the custom flywheel.
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Thu, 08 July 2004 05:03
|
|
I'll tell u what james i'll pay 4 ur air fares n stuff and u can stay in the spare room with the spa aslong as u do my conversion i'll lend u a car 2 use ?????
JK my parents cut sick when i spill oil in the garage so swapping a motor would get me kicked out of home i recon
I can't drive 4 12 months so i'm gunna b spending alot on my car and maybe do the swap then. but i still don't no what a front cut is ????
|
|
|
Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Thu, 08 July 2004 08:04
|
|
| Mookie wrote on Thu, 08 July 2004 15:03 |
I'll tell u what james i'll pay 4 ur air fares n stuff and u can stay in the spare room with the spa aslong as u do my conversion i'll lend u a car 2 use ?????
JK my parents cut sick when i spill oil in the garage so swapping a motor would get me kicked out of home i recon
I can't drive 4 12 months so i'm gunna b spending alot on my car and maybe do the swap then. but i still don't no what a front cut is ????
|
Lol! You had me pretty excited until I read the second paragraph. Would be a nice holiday
A front cut is the front of the actual car, chopped a bit beyond the firewall, usually contains the ecu/loom/engine/etc.
Since you do have the time, I would strongly recommend the swap. My parents were hesitant to lend me the garage to store my sa63, but if you just do it, they cant do much to stop something already done. Hell, iv gotta sneak an ma61 past them so i can store it next to my sa63
Cheers,
James
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Thu, 08 July 2004 09:51
|
|
would a front cut include things like the gearbox and suspension ? Cuz i figure the less weight to ship in the better. I've got a celica motor in pieces that died ages go in there and mum goes off at me cuz she reversed in2 it ????
And i spose cuz i've got the free time i can cut the front cut up in2 peices and sneak them in2 the recycling.
|
|
|
Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Fri, 09 July 2004 02:38
|
|
i would assume that the frontcut would include the whole front steering/suspension setup, engine+gbox, shafts, etc.
Why bother cutting the front cut up? Sell it to a metal recycling joint.
Find a mate with a towbar, hire a trailer, pickup the frontcut, easy. Also, dont leave motors in the way of rolling vehicles 
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Fri, 09 July 2004 06:50
|
|
So i ring up sum import place and they ship it to somewhere over here and i go pick it up from there ? It sounds like a good idea . So Almost any importer will do? If sum1 has sum names/numbers i could call 2 get sum quotes that would b awesome . I'm a bit worried it won't work out but i'm willing 2 give it a red hot go 
|
|
|
Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: How much does it cost to rebuild an engine ?
|
Fri, 09 July 2004 14:35
|
|
i think you'll find mate, that your local jap imports would probably have one sitting in his back yard ready to move, at least thats what its like here in brissy, tis cool, i got a quote on a ST202 front cut for $1500 i just don't have the money right now, yeah thats a series 3. how hard do you guys think it will be to drop that into a ST184, costwise, it suppose to be a straight bolt accross, can anyone confirm that?
on and the front cut will come with dash, instrament pannel forward, so yes this includes, engine, gearbox, front brakes, front suspension, ECU/loom/wiring, and other goodies provided they haven't already been removed, i managed to buy the headlights out of a frontcut. you can rest asured that you will get the engine, gearbox, ECU/loom.
|
|
|
