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Location:
Gippsland
Registered:
October 2003
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Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 10:32
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In Victoria at the moment the government are contemplating making it so Probationary lisence holder cannot drive after 12:00am to make it safer! personally i think this is pathetic and was just curious to what others thought!
[Updated on: Tue, 13 July 2004 11:36]
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 10:33
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god damn this is a ridiculuos idea.
it shits me to tears.
i can think of so many reasons why it is a stupid fucking ridiculous, crap, waste of time, shit, not going to solve anything solution.
argh!!!!!!! 
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 10:39
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Yeah, lets ban P platers from driving at night... Then let them drive on the road at night when they get off their P's... How do they expect them to get any experience at night???
And I still don't understand why they wanna do this... Not gunna solve anything... Everyone will just take their P plates off...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Gippsland
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 10:41
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| Rolla Boy wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 20:39 |
Yeah, lets ban P platers from driving at night... Then let them drive on the road at night when they get off their P's... How do they expect them to get any experience at night???
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exactly! just like how Learners cant drive with trailers! how the hell are the suppose to learn? thats just common sense!
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 10:51
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i voted no
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Location:
Gippsland
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 10:52
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why is that? 
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 10:55
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'Coz he's ghey.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 10:57
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| Quote: |
If they put as much effort into teaching people how to drive that they do into trying to make money, then the number of road deaths would halve.
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I can't agree more!
The licensing scheme in Victoria is all based around revenue. No-one is actually taught how to drive. My instructor flat out told me he was only going to teach me how to pass the test and the rest was up to me. The answer to the road toll in Vic is simply a matter of education. Trouble is, no-one is willing to take the time or effort to do it. The Gov is just happy to fine ppl when they are "doing the wrong thing" and rake in the money while trying to hold the moral high-ground.
Cheers,
Dan
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 11:03
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i voted no cause i dont like polls, and vote specifically opposing the poll posters view.
secondly pissing on about something that will NEVER happen is a waste of time. blah, blah, whinge and piss, THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
thirdly nark wishes i was ghey cause he is ghey.
nuff said lock thread.
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW, Austra...
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 11:14
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Yeah the RTA ruled it out just recently in NSW, stupidest idea ever.
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 11:18
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So NSW definately ruled it out???
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW, Austra...
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Location:
Gippsland
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 11:29
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very mature of you Rob! 
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 12:03
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| dimmy77_03 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 21:27 |
Rolla Boy i also heard that the RTA have ruled this out, but are considering power restrictions for P platers (i'd agree with that  ). P platers shouldn't drive V8's
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I totally agree on this one... This would be the most sensible rule they've ever thought of...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 12:10
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| dimmy77_03 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 21:27 |
power restrictions for P platers
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| dimmy77_03 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 21:27 |
P platers shouldn't drive V8's
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Are you saying V8s are powerful? 
Sorry... Couldn't help myself...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 12:11
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| Ra28-451 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 21:29 |
very mature of you Rob!
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Rob = ghey = Max's he-bitch
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Location:
Gippsland
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 12:17
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why dont you think they shouldnt drive V8's you will find most of the fastest cars on our roads that 'P' platers own are Turbo 4's and 6's! there is already a power to weight ratio in vic! i think its 125kw to 1 tonne! which still works out to be pretty quick!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 12:24
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fuckin QLD (the good state) doesnt even require the damn P PLATES to be on the car
fcking shitty police state nsw, die.
79 bucks and 2 points for EACH p plate not displayed
good game fuckheads, 2 demerit points for a non moving violation.
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Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 12:37
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| dimmy77_03 wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 21:27 |
BTW, Rolla Boy i also heard that the RTA have ruled this out, but are considering power restrictions for P platers (i'd agree with that ). P platers shouldn't drive V8's
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What state is that in? Victoria has a power to weight limit and capacity to weight limit.
i believe it's around 140kw per tonne and not too sure what the capacity limit is.
Although an L plater may drive any car they want, marvellous
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 12:52
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when i last checked in vic the restrictions on powah was 125kw per tonne, and no car with and egninge larger than 5L. im not 100% on the 5L part, maybe it was 5L per tonne.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 13:14
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thats a fucking stupid idea
i love qld
no P plates on cars
and my car is 160kw/tonne and never heard anything about that
why take p platers off road after midnight?.. that makes no sense.. thats the time when thye could do the least damage to anyone else... government is full of dicks
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 13:36
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| Quote: |
fuckin QLD (the good state) doesnt even require the damn P PLATES to be on the car
fcking shitty police state nsw, die.
79 bucks and 2 points for EACH p plate not displayed
good game fuckheads, 2 demerit points for a non moving violation.
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Try in South Australia where it's an automatic loss of licence for not displaying your P plates....
Okay first of all in all fairness I think that it sounds like a plausible idea since I don't really tend to drive anywhere after midnight. BUT then that just proves the point that a very small percentage of drivers after midnight are really P platers anyway and so the idea is just a stupid waste of time. I'd like to think that if one day my mother was in hospital at the early hours of the morning I could drive there without feeling like I'm gonna get busted for it.
I'm also heavily against the idea of an automatic los of licence for exceeding the sped limit by 10kmh for a first offence. This is the reason I lost my licence and I feel it's hit me very hard (considering I payed a $300 fine as well).
As for a power restriction, I find this one a very good idea, provided that the power restrictions are actually based on correct grounds and not like the piss poor method insurance companies use where anything with the word "Turbo" in it is a sin...This could prove to have much better results and would have much more public support. There's nothing that shits me more than when I see a P plate mounted wrong on a $30 000 car which has more power than 6 versions of my car put together...
The final thing I'd like to clear up is the topic thread, P Plates are for PROVISIONAL drivers. PROBATIONARY drivers are ones who have had a full licence and have had it restricted on a good behaviour period for incuring too many demerit points.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 13:42
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No-one is actually taught how to drive.
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It doesn't matter what state you are in, really. I was actually a rather sucky driver when I first was told by my driving instructor that I would pass my license test. Instead I kept at it for another month or two doing at least one lesson a week before I bothered applying. The driving instructor loved it for all the extra money he was getting, and strangely didn't understand that I wanted to LEARN TO DRIVE rather than GET A LICENSE (yes, kiddies, that's how you spell license).
That was all too long ago, and recently I attained my unrestricted motorcycle license. That's right, a license to ride a turbo Hayabusa if I so desired & could get my hands on one. Hell, even a stock Hayabusa is good for high 9's and 140mph+... scary stuff.
You know how I got this license? By having two free afternoons and a couple of hundred bucks to spare. I rode around in circles a few times on a toy (250cc) bike, did a lap of the block... then came and did the same thing on a larger capacity bike the next day, followed by a short 5 min ride (2 exits) on the highway. Five minutes after I got back, I had a form signed saying I was eligible for an Open R class license - the next day I took it to the transport department and away I went with my unrestricted choice of crotch rockets. As far as they knew I'd never ridden a motorcycle until the day before!
Needless to say I HAD ridden before, but that's not the point. The other guys there hadn't, and they all got their licenses too... with a sum total of 30 minutes road experience and a few hours doing circles in a carpark.
Good to see things haven't changed.. but whaddya know, fines have gone up!
It is generally only age (more correctly, experience) that makes people good on the road. I have always been a "good" driver in that I can park straight, reverse with a trailer, and not cut people off every time I drive in traffic... but I've done some bloody dumb things in my time and it actually took a bit of a scare to make me realise it.
Generally the older you get the more sensibly you drive (excluding my father who is an absolute maniac)... and I reckon I have a damn long way to go too! Being younger like most of the guys on the forums you all probably think you're the shit, and that everyone is out to get you, but give it a few years and you'll realise you were no less crap than anyone else. You might be a "better" driver that average, but chances are your driving style and extra confidence probably makes you a worse driver overall.
Statistics show that girls have more accidents (ie. are 'worse' drivers) but that guys tend to have bigger accidents. I reckon that (in general) traffic enforcement is bullshit, but I'm all for pulling about 60% of the people on these forums off the road - y'all drive like wankers and you don't even know it.
Controversial but I feel warranted. Of the people that I have had hook past at an incredible rate of knots, or that I have seen pull dickhead manouvres, the vast majority of them are young males. Authorities have correctly identified a link between young drivers, speed, and accidents... but it's got nothing to do with speed, and sweet fuck all to do with the time of night you're driving. It's all to do with inappropriate speed, misplaced confidence and erratic driving styles... all of which seem to circle around younger, more brave and more enthusiastic drivers.
Now let's see the claws come out 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 14:00
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| Quote: |
not like the piss poor method insurance companies use where anything with the word "Turbo" in it is a sin
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I have access to a lot of (confidential) figures that prove otherwise. Turbo + Young = Accident... sorry mate. I agree that sometimes it's a bit heavy handed, but the idea itself is fairly sound. Insurance is basically gambling - and why gamble on a horse with a clear disadvantage (young guy, turbo car, high theft risk, fanging it up the mountains and through back streets) when you can gamble on a better horse (eg. male & female couple, driving camry sedately around town, low theft risk).
Even if the older couple do have an accident, it's probably going to be a minor one compared to the young guy with the turbo Fulleesik-SXR-GTi-Vspec-R-Blitz-Sard-Apexi-mobile who is likely to run into someone at full pelt or completely off the side of the road. Same goes for a theft.. the Camry gets pinched, then found at the shops a few kms away.. the turbo car gets stripped for parts and burned out. You can't win them all, but 9 times out of 10 that's probably the way it goes.
Insurance companies are businesses, no different to other businesses, catering to the needs of their number one customer (shareholders). Any business has a right to sell their product to a target market - and as long as they do not discriminate against or mislead people in the process, they can do prettymuch whatever they want.
For some reason people seem to think that insurance companies owe them something. They don't... they're just in it to make a buck and keep as many people happy in the process... who cares if you piss off a few customers that you didn't want to insure anyway?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 14:13
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| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 23:42 |
| Quote: |
No-one is actually taught how to drive.
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It doesn't matter what state you are in, really. I was actually a rather sucky driver when I first was told by my driving instructor that I would pass my license test. Instead I kept at it for another month or two doing at least one lesson a week before I bothered applying. The driving instructor loved it for all the extra money he was getting, and strangely didn't understand that I wanted to LEARN TO DRIVE rather than GET A LICENSE (yes, kiddies, that's how you spell license).
That was all too long ago, and recently I attained my unrestricted motorcycle license. That's right, a license to ride a turbo Hayabusa if I so desired & could get my hands on one. Hell, even a stock Hayabusa is good for high 9's and 140mph+... scary stuff.
You know how I got this license? By having two free afternoons and a couple of hundred bucks to spare. I rode around in circles a few times on a toy (250cc) bike, did a lap of the block... then came and did the same thing on a larger capacity bike the next day, followed by a short 5 min ride (2 exits) on the highway. Five minutes after I got back, I had a form signed saying I was eligible for an Open R class license - the next day I took it to the transport department and away I went with my unrestricted choice of crotch rockets. As far as they knew I'd never ridden a motorcycle until the day before!
Needless to say I HAD ridden before, but that's not the point. The other guys there hadn't, and they all got their licenses too... with a sum total of 30 minutes road experience and a few hours doing circles in a carpark.
Good to see things haven't changed.. but whaddya know, fines have gone up!
It is generally only age (more correctly, experience) that makes people good on the road. I have always been a "good" driver in that I can park straight, reverse with a trailer, and not cut people off every time I drive in traffic... but I've done some bloody dumb things in my time and it actually took a bit of a scare to make me realise it.
Generally the older you get the more sensibly you drive (excluding my father who is an absolute maniac)... and I reckon I have a damn long way to go too! Being younger like most of the guys on the forums you all probably think you're the shit, and that everyone is out to get you, but give it a few years and you'll realise you were no less crap than anyone else. You might be a "better" driver that average, but chances are your driving style and extra confidence probably makes you a worse driver overall.
Statistics show that girls have more accidents (ie. are 'worse' drivers) but that guys tend to have bigger accidents. I reckon that (in general) traffic enforcement is bullshit, but I'm all for pulling about 60% of the people on these forums off the road - y'all drive like wankers and you don't even know it.
Controversial but I feel warranted. Of the people that I have had hook past at an incredible rate of knots, or that I have seen pull dickhead manouvres, the vast majority of them are young males. Authorities have correctly identified a link between young drivers, speed, and accidents... but it's got nothing to do with speed, and sweet fuck all to do with the time of night you're driving. It's all to do with inappropriate speed, misplaced confidence and erratic driving styles... all of which seem to circle around younger, more brave and more enthusiastic drivers.
Now let's see the claws come out
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anyone with a shit fast car drives more agressively without even knowing it.. i noticed when i went back to driving my mums magna for a day.. i drive my car as sedately as i can.. and its still alot faster and more dangerous than revving the tits off mums magna
and your young and about to have a blitzingly fast car too 
i dont know what im trying to point out.. im just tired lol
i agree with young + turbo=accident though
ive seen so many dickheads
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 14:34
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a blitzingly fast car
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I don't know about blitzingly fast, maybe 13's. Blitzingly fast compared to a stock Mark II maybe, but certainly not blitzingly fast by my unfortunately high standards 
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 15:36
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well really they should ban most turbos too. personally i love them! and as much fun as they are, they are very dangerous to an in-experienced driver! or maybe make like a mandatory defence drivers course for all P platers with turbo cars?
( dont blast me for this! )
either way, its the small percentage of dickheads who crash there cars stupidly that ruin it all for the other car enthusiasts.
im a P plater, and i need to be driving late nights, as i work late, and just generally travel during the night. the curfew is a fuking retarted rule!!!
prob just some dickhead politician trying to keep his job by comming up with solutions to debate, which the gouvernment can then disregard, and start the process all over again with one more stupid ass idea. hopefully we have nothing to worry about.
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Location:
I often wonder...
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 15:57
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Victoria:
125 kw per tonne
or/
3.5 ltrs max capacity per tonne
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 22:35
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| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Wed, 14 July 2004 00:34 |
| Quote: |
a blitzingly fast car
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I don't know about blitzingly fast, maybe 13's. Blitzingly fast compared to a stock Mark II maybe, but certainly not blitzingly fast by my unfortunately high standards
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fast enough
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 23:21
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| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 23:42 |
(yes, kiddies, that's how you spell license).
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Licence. Noun. I have a driving licence.
License. Verb. I have been licensed to drive.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 23:31
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| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 23:42 |
I'm all for pulling about 60% of the people on these forums off the road - y'all drive like wankers and you don't even know it.
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I am NEVER comfortable in the passenger seat. I just don't trust other people with my life...
But the closest I get to comfort is when another hoon is driving. You know why? 'Coz I know that they will be able to handle the car if we get into a sticky situation.
The Government doesn't want to teach people to drive, but hoons (like most of us) have a desire to learn, or at least find (or go past) their limits.
Young drivers (especially male) will try to push the limits. It's all part of the learning experience. Most will find that limit (by spinning out or whatever) and stay below that limit most of the time.
That crashes happen is just a fact of life. They're learning.
Preventing them from learning in a variety of different environments is not the solution.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 13 July 2004 23:52
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What I don't understand is what about those battlers who do long hours and finish at Midnight? That means that young people who are trying to make a living have to pay a taxi home because they aren't allowed to drive their car after work?
Gees... I don't understand. I was one of those 'P' platers who drive to work and finish work late (after 12am).
They need to do more research before they make a ridiculous assumption. If they are to preoccupied that 'P' platers shouldn't be on the road at night as soon as the sun disappears.
I don't think this will pass Parliament (I hope)...
Cheers.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 00:04
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| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 21:47 |
| Quote: |
Try in South Australia where it's an automatic loss of licence for not displaying your P plates
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And by contrast there's WA, where you don't lose your license for drink driving...
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So long as you're nice, you're likely to cop a fine and points for driving 40kph+ the limit too.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Judgement, skill and concentration
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Wed, 14 July 2004 00:14
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This is just more of the Bracks government pissing on the rights of road users in order to try and look like it's doing something active. It probably won't happen, because they know how many votes they'd lose from 17-22 year old P-platers.
I don't have the time or the patience to get all in-depth, but as briefly as I can sum it up:
We really should only have 10-50 road fatalaties per year in oz, if only:
* Everyone exercises good judgement.
* Everyone is adequately skilled to deal with varying conditions and situations.
* Everyone follows the road rules to the letter.
* Everyone pays attention and concentrates.
* All cars + trucks etc. are roadworthy.
Unfortunateley, state governments seem to be abandoning these simple concepts en'masse, embracing the easy money of speed + red-light cameras. P-platers are way over-represented in road accident and fatality statistics because they haven't learnt the skills and judgement necessary to survive on the roads. Even supremely skilled wheelmen, such as myself ( ) won't survive long if they haven't learnt how much safety margin to leave in daily driving.
Don't even get me started on how badly Victoria's brutally enforced 100 speed limit affects fatigue and concentration on long highway drives...
GGGGGGrrrrrrrr!!!!! speed limit make HULK MAD!!! HULK SMASH SPEED CAMERA!!! AAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!!
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Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 01:06
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Two things need to happen:
1. Assassination of the government, excluding policitians who are rallying for motorists enthusiasts cause. They're ok.
2. All the population except people in Sydney, Victoria and move to QLD, because no one cares in QLD which is wicked. You can do what you like. It's like the USA!
Then we can all live happily every after!
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Location:
Wahroonga
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 02:10
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i say that we don't ban P platers from driving at night, we simply limit the vehicles that they can drive, ie no V8's, No 6's and no turboed or supercharge 4's. This would limit the amount of young hoolegans on the road being cheered on by their friends that have nothing better to do than drive stupidly. And if anyone wanted to be able to drive a high powered vehicle they should need to get another licience to show that they know how to handle the power. I keep seeing in the paper that a young driver out in there parents high powered vehicle crashed because they didn't know how to handle the extra power.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 02:37
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What about a family that's only got high powered cars?
I can't imagine that I'd have a crappy underpowered car when I have kids.
And don't forget that sports cars have better handling. I feel MUCH safer in a high powered sports car than in a freaking Excel.
ANY car sold in Australia can break our highest speed limit.
ANY car can hit a solid object at those speeds.
ANY person who's capable of influencing laws should really reconsider their position if they start blaming inanimate objects for fatalities.
Crashes are caused by the driver driving beyond their abilities or those of their cars. Cars don't crash themselves.
The answer is in education, not in preventing young drivers from learning to drive their cars in a variety of situations!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 02:50
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| Draza wrote on Wed, 14 July 2004 12:10 |
i say that we don't ban P platers from driving at night, we simply limit the vehicles that they can drive, ie no V8's, No 6's and no turboed or supercharge 4's.
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There is a slight problem with this as there is enough high powered naturally aspirated vehicles (and a few weak as piss turbo cars eg the charade turbo 1L) I have a nat. asp. 2T in the garage that has the same power as my 4agze neither of which is standard. A power to weight ratio makes much more sense. Hell some old V8's and 6's are pretty sluggish too.
The only problem is enforcing this...
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 06:11
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| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Tue, 13 July 2004 23:42 |
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No-one is actually taught how to drive.
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It doesn't matter what state you are in, really. I was actually a rather sucky driver when I first was told by my driving instructor that I would pass my license test. Instead I kept at it for another month or two doing at least one lesson a week before I bothered applying. The driving instructor loved it for all the extra money he was getting, and strangely didn't understand that I wanted to LEARN TO DRIVE rather than GET A LICENSE (yes, kiddies, that's how you spell license).
That was all too long ago, and recently I attained my unrestricted motorcycle license. That's right, a license to ride a turbo Hayabusa if I so desired & could get my hands on one. Hell, even a stock Hayabusa is good for high 9's and 140mph+... scary stuff.
You know how I got this license? By having two free afternoons and a couple of hundred bucks to spare. I rode around in circles a few times on a toy (250cc) bike, did a lap of the block... then came and did the same thing on a larger capacity bike the next day, followed by a short 5 min ride (2 exits) on the highway. Five minutes after I got back, I had a form signed saying I was eligible for an Open R class license - the next day I took it to the transport department and away I went with my unrestricted choice of crotch rockets. As far as they knew I'd never ridden a motorcycle until the day before!
Needless to say I HAD ridden before, but that's not the point. The other guys there hadn't, and they all got their licenses too... with a sum total of 30 minutes road experience and a few hours doing circles in a carpark.
Good to see things haven't changed.. but whaddya know, fines have gone up!
It is generally only age (more correctly, experience) that makes people good on the road. I have always been a "good" driver in that I can park straight, reverse with a trailer, and not cut people off every time I drive in traffic... but I've done some bloody dumb things in my time and it actually took a bit of a scare to make me realise it.
Generally the older you get the more sensibly you drive (excluding my father who is an absolute maniac)... and I reckon I have a damn long way to go too! Being younger like most of the guys on the forums you all probably think you're the shit, and that everyone is out to get you, but give it a few years and you'll realise you were no less crap than anyone else. You might be a "better" driver that average, but chances are your driving style and extra confidence probably makes you a worse driver overall.
Statistics show that girls have more accidents (ie. are 'worse' drivers) but that guys tend to have bigger accidents. I reckon that (in general) traffic enforcement is bullshit, but I'm all for pulling about 60% of the people on these forums off the road - y'all drive like wankers and you don't even know it.
Controversial but I feel warranted. Of the people that I have had hook past at an incredible rate of knots, or that I have seen pull dickhead manouvres, the vast majority of them are young males. Authorities have correctly identified a link between young drivers, speed, and accidents... but it's got nothing to do with speed, and sweet fuck all to do with the time of night you're driving. It's all to do with inappropriate speed, misplaced confidence and erratic driving styles... all of which seem to circle around younger, more brave and more enthusiastic drivers.
Now let's see the claws come out
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true, even thoe i am a P plater...
but "brave" drivers iv seen just so happen to be in a commo (not as much as falcons or other v6/8) 
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW, Austra...
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 07:50
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I agree with nark, the answer is is education, not draconian driving restrictions. Unfortunatley that would require the government to spend money, as opposed to gain it through speeding fines.
The same thing applies to insurance companies who should be also trying to reduce the over representation of P platers.But should the number of young drivers having accidents go down, they would be presured to reduce the premiums they slug young drivers with.
So as much as it sounds like a good idea, i think the hysteria around young drivers is set to remain for some time.
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 08:26
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i agree. the power isnt the biggest proble, its all about experience and education in most cases. some other accidents are just that, accidents, and usually cant be helped.
i had a friend in an old corolla, rwd. the thing had 50kw, but he still wrote it off in the first 2 weeks of owning it.
other mate wrote off his VH commodore within 2 months of driving on his P's. the car was a sluggish 4.2L thing, that would get hammered by my corolla. he crashed is because he locked up his breaks in teh wet and slid into the back of another car.
other mate in a VL crashed his car in first 3 weeks because he over-corected going around a corner and plowed into a parked car.
these cars were either a 4cyl, 6cyl, or 8cyl, and they all crashed because they were inexperienced drivers, not because there cars were to powerful.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 09:26
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| Draza wrote on Wed, 14 July 2004 12:10 |
i say that we don't ban P platers from driving at night, we simply limit the vehicles that they can drive, ie no V8's, No 6's and no turboed or supercharge 4's. This would limit the amount of young hoolegans on the road being cheered on by their friends that have nothing better to do than drive stupidly. And if anyone wanted to be able to drive a high powered vehicle they should need to get another licience to show that they know how to handle the power. I keep seeing in the paper that a young driver out in there parents high powered vehicle crashed because they didn't know how to handle the extra power.
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what about people like me who only have 1 car to drive
just so happens that its a high powered car... so i cant drive after midnight cause some wankers drive like idiots? lol
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Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Wed, 14 July 2004 10:15
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hey, why cant p platers drive v8's some of the 4 cyl turbo's are more powerful than v8's so that rule is a load of shit...enough said
brad
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW, Austra...
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Thu, 15 July 2004 13:10
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its also a power to weight ratio, of i think 125 kw/tonne
enough said
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Location:
Wahroonga
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Thu, 15 July 2004 14:46
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There is a power to weight ratio for motorbikes for ppl on their l's and p's in NSW that is. So why not have the same thing for cars, but since it is easyer to get lots of power out of a NA V8 than it is to get out of a NA 4, and u can get lots of power out of turbo'ed or supercharged 4's and 6's.
So unless the government is willing to spend lots of money on having all the cars dyno'ed and weighed to see if they are under the power to weight ratio, there would have to be another way. That is why i say that there should be a limit on the engine size.
Not alot of ppl on there P's would be willing to spend the money to get the power out of the engine that they want so this would mean that they could work on improving their driving without having a really powerful engine.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Thu, 15 July 2004 23:22
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| Draza wrote on Fri, 16 July 2004 00:46 |
Not alot of ppl on there P's would be willing to spend the money to get the power out of the engine that they want
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As evidenced by the lack of P platers in modified cars?
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Location:
Wahroonga
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Thu, 15 July 2004 23:37
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no lots of p platers have modified cars, the ones that go crazy and just throw on things like a big turbo or a NOS kit would be alot less likely to do it if there were things like their car was taken away for about a month as a penalty.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Fri, 16 July 2004 00:13
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When I did my P's driving test, I blitzed it in 11 minutes. The tester said that while I didn't BREAK a single rule, or lose more than 1 or 2 points anywhere, I was BENDING what was acceptable for speed most of the time, as the test normally takes 30 MINUTES!!
I said that I was just a bit nervous, and rushed things more than I would have liked (which was/is true) and genuinely thought I should have lost marks in a few places for rocketing up to intersections etc... (I had to brake quite hard at a roundabout to give way to a car I should have seens earlier)
Nup - the tester said "all quite good" -He even complimented me on my gearshifting prowess!
So Off I went into the world, all confidence and machismo, with barely a shred of forethought or judgement to help keep me out of trouble.
Luckily I never hit anything, but I can assure you all, that even in a 2Litre N/A DIESEL Crown (ex-malaysian taxi, rare!) I had enough close calls and scary moments to make a few people wary of getting into the car with me for a few months there, until I calmed down a bit and began to behave with a modicum of common sense.
There you go then - a GUTLESS shytbox with a top-speed of 115km/h (less into a headwind) is plenty fast enough to get P-platers into trouble. Don't even bother with the arguement against fast/powerful cars until there's a basic workable standard of skill, judgement and respect for the road, in young drivers.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Fri, 16 July 2004 00:40
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| Nark wrote on Fri, 16 July 2004 09:22 |
| Draza wrote on Fri, 16 July 2004 00:46 |
Not alot of ppl on there P's would be willing to spend the money to get the power out of the engine that they want
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As evidenced by the lack of P platers in modified cars?
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most p platers have bling bling rims and a monster tacho.. this isnt modified.. though there are lots of ones with proper modded cars too
the worst ones i see are in vn v8's etc
vl turbo's
what was my point?, i dont know!.. still hangovered
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Fri, 16 July 2004 01:45
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| st184 sillycar wrote on Fri, 16 July 2004 10:13 |
When I did my P's driving test, I blitzed it in 11 minutes. The tester said that while I didn't BREAK a single rule, or lose more than 1 or 2 points anywhere, I was BENDING what was acceptable for speed most of the time, as the test normally takes 30 MINUTES!!
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Yeh, i got my P and P a few days ago on the first go. And in all honesty, they are the easiest tests possible...any person with 1/2 a brain could pass it easily
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Fri, 16 July 2004 02:33
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It's a sad fact that laws such as these are a cheap, populist reaction to our road toll. It's even sadder that young males are very much over represented in the road toll.
7M-Brisbane (time to change to 1jz-Brisbane) hit the nail on the head. Young men are generally dangerous drivers, and do stupid things in cars. I was/am (at 27 maybe pushing it!) a young man and have driven very stupidly and dangerously on many occasions. I'm not sure how power restirctions and curfews would have prevented it though. I am not even confident that education can prevent it.
Apparently NZ have some good ideas about reducing the road toll, by reducing the "mates factor". If you are a probationary driver then you cannot drive other people around unless you have a fully licensed driver in the car with you. So you can still drive at night, but not with a car full of mates egging you on...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Sat, 17 July 2004 05:32
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Yeah; a lot of P-Platers get a condition on their licence that they may only carry 1 passenger until they get their full licence. This is handed down by a court after they've been TOTALLY busted for acting like a fvckwit behind the wheel with a load of mates onboard.
I know it happens in N.S.W and Vic, anywhere else?
Also, N.S.W. cops can impound your car if they bust you dragging or burning-out in residential areas. I think this is weak. Discuss!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Tue, 20 July 2004 01:13
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Education is one hell of a point, i agree aswell. For those people who can't drive a manual shouldn't be allowed to drive. It is absoulote bs that people say they can't drive them when they have nothing wrong with their legs.
I would have to personally agree that this would work... First you should pass your basic's to get your L"s then do a minuim of 50 hours experience with a supervised driver (unrestricted) then once there is 50 hours you must pass a Advanced driving course. As soon as they pass all these then they do the practical test. Screw the cost of the course. One thing for sure is that people will have more education than what they have now. So here goes again:
50 hours min.
Advanced driving course
Pass prac test.
Ban auto only drivers unless disability is proven.
So manual only pass.
Who would agree?
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Location:
Gippsland
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Sun, 25 July 2004 03:58
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instead of banning High powerd cars they should make it that you have to fit better brackes and handling parts in order to make it safer! I would imagine that a twin turbo 1st gen celica would be very unsafe! but i may be wrong!
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Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Sun, 25 July 2004 07:06
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Like that drag car with the aeroplane engine it is legal and has like 1000hp . It's able 2 go really really quick but, it's got the brakes out of a f350 truck (if i remember right) . They (transport) were satisfied it could pull up from 120kms in time with those brakes. They did that asuming it would never go faster than 120 ?????
that is wrong i think .
And if p platers can't drive at night will u get in shit if u remove the headlights ????
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Sun, 25 July 2004 11:11
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Umm yes i guess you would still get in shit as the banned is propossed to start at 12am to 5am. To my knowledge Sunset is at 5.30pm. Beside's that they are mandortory as are reverse beepers if came default with them.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Probationary Lisence
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Sat, 07 August 2004 01:48
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http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/06/10917320 90374.html
This was a quick backflip from mr scully.
As long as they make it reasonable for people to be exceptions to the rule i think it's good - although i doubt the stats would show a large proportion of under-21 aged crashees driving uber powerful cars.
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(excuse the french