| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Sydney Area
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sat, 21 September 2002 05:11
|
 |
I have done a bit of panel beating in the last year on my old 77' celica, but i didnt have the experience so i muffed it up. Doesnt matter because i sold the car and got some experience out of it. I need to know how to actually cut the rust out, and weld another piece of metal in there. It sounds stupid but its so hard when u carnt actually get to the back of the panel to get the rust from that side out, and then weld another peice in there. If you carnt get to the back of the panel, rust will still be there, and whats the point of repainting it again because the rust is going to come back straight away. Any ideas?
Also it it worth welding up little rust holes in the bonet of your celica,which takes up a hell of a lot of time, or just go and buy another one. ANyother iDEas?
|
|
|
Location:
GoldCoast/Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sun, 22 September 2002 05:48
|
|
Sorry this might not be the answer that you were looking for but I beleive it is the best advice anyone can give you dude!!
Take the damn car to a respected panel beater and let them do the work themselves man!! They do that kind of shit everyday and they can tell you if it is in a particularly bad spot and all..... what I mean is rust in areas where structural integrity is of upmost importance!!!!
Just my piece of copper!
Adrian!
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sun, 22 September 2002 06:43
|
|
Yeah, I'm interested in the answer to this question, because I want to do some of the body work on my Celica XX...and if I'm going to the trouble of getting it resprayed, I want to make sure it doesn't rust again 
But yeah, if its anywhere structural...get someone professional to do it, its not worth the risk.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sun, 22 September 2002 07:27
|
|
ok my Celica i cut all the rust out myself and it was the first car i ever did and rust has started to come back through 3 years later, reason i put it down to is when i cut it out i just sprayed the area with prima to seal it off from the air but now found out prima is porus 
i say do it yourself if you feel your up to it, and if you are able to sit down and put hours of work into it,
tips i give when cutting the rust out and that is get it all out as much as you can then straight away treat that bit of metal with some form of rust prevention, then bog it and sand, spray with prima then coat it in any old enemal just to make sure its all sealed off from air before you re spray the car,
if its a panel and its hard to get to the back of it get some fish oil and spray that through the rust hole and anyway you can.
i got 3 years after not doing it the right way, going to do it again at the end of the year the RIGHT WAY and should get even more then 3 years out of it.
also i feel much better knowing i put all the hard work into my car instead of someone else
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sun, 22 September 2002 08:33
|
|
If rust starts, you can never get rid of it... Even if you cut out the rust and weld in a new piece of metal...
When you remove rust totally and properley, it will be back in around 3 years depending on weather conditions and so forth...
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sun, 22 September 2002 11:00
|
|
Thats a little pessimistic
Anyways, any areas that I do I should use rust convertor as well right?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sun, 22 September 2002 12:25
|
|
|
If you want, you can use some rust converters everywhere! It not only converts rust but once it soaks into the metal it will protect the metal from rusting from that day on!
|
|
|
Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sun, 22 September 2002 12:26
|
|
basically anything that isnt smooth and shiny is a porous material
frank, i only use rust convertor on surface rust, if there is a 10cent rust hole then i cut it out and a bit of area around it to a 20cent hole then out of spare quarter panels i have, i cut a piece to nearly the exact shape of the hole and weld that in place, then the rest is just spot putty, then sand then quick etch metal primer (just in case theres a tiny bit of metal) then spray putty and sand then the painting process is ready to begin
basically if you cant spraypaint or weld or are new to it, my advice is also take it to a professional !!...not a dodgy backyard mob who will get arrested for insurance fraud while hes working on your car and then its really hard to get the car back and then when you do its dissasembled and you have to put it all back together yourself !!....talking from experience remember 
first car i painted myself, it was average, then i got the 65 painted which was where i had all the trouble with the guy, and second time around my painting efforts have improved a lot with the blue ta22, due to the nature of work im involved in, but it is way too much work for me to ever do again !
wayne
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Sun, 22 September 2002 12:36
|
|
Hmmm...so what brands for rust converters are suggested ??
Ta
Mani
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney Area
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Mon, 23 September 2002 00:48
|
|
THere are plenty of rust converters out there. When i got the rust out of my car, i used a self priming rust converter. Its good for 30 days after you apply the converter. But for best results, only around 3 hrs the pachage sais.
ALso i have a Question about sanding and painting. When i painted my 77 model, i used a red colour. I painted the paint on, no problems there, then i used 2 pac clear on it, and before i put that on, i had to sand the paint back to a smooth surface with some really fine wet and dry. Doing this wasnt that much of a problem. I got the paint back as smooth as a babies bum, and then cleaned all the particles off the car, and then i applied the 2 pac clear. And in some spots of the car, the clear decided to go all CRAP. like there was some oil on the car or something. I then has to lightly sand the 2 pac clear back, and then i painted it again, and it still buggered up. Any ideas???
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
September 2002
|
 Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Mon, 23 September 2002 04:14
|
|
two possible answers to that one. From any paint shop you can obtain surface cleaning pads designed to pull of all oil dust gunk. Secondly a very clean rag soaked in thinners(let it almost dry before applying otherwise you will end up wiping of your new paint job) will also do the job
Dan
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney Area
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Mon, 23 September 2002 06:22
|
|
|
I was talking to a mate of mine, and he sugested that the problem was that the WET and DRY paper i was using musy have been silicon based. Thus when i sanded the paint back to put the clear on , the silicon stayed there. I did use wax and grease remover, and washed the paint before i applyed the clear, but it still did it. I didnt try using thinners whou, so thanx for that info. Ill keep that in mind for when it happens again.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Mon, 23 September 2002 06:22
|
|
Wayne,
So who do you recommend for a quality re-spray in Brisbane? My daily driver 79 280ZX is pretty straight with some typical lower door rust spots both sides. I don't want another big budget job, like the Celica, but I still want a good quality job. I was going to strip the car and put it back together myself to save some bucks. I don't plan on pulling the engine out, but I will get both sides of the bonnet painted. I want it painted a similar colour to the original "Z" bronze.
Cheers
Justin
http://www.syd.quik.com.au/harwoodj/public/datson1 2.jpg
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Mon, 23 September 2002 06:50
|
|
Yeah, I was planning to cut out any bigger rust spots, and make sure all the new stuff was covered in rust converter...
The bigger bits on my car are going to be done by a professional, but the smaller bits will be done by me. I'm getting better now.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Mon, 23 September 2002 09:05
|
|
on the topic of rust.... how fast does it move?
the supra has bits of suface rust (bogged in the past) along the roof, just above the doors, and some serious rust on the corner of a panel (only small, but it's all the way through)
Ideally I'd like to leave it a while ... maybe use a stop-gap measure (rust converter) to keep it together till I can fix it properly... but if the car's going to fall apart on me in 2 years time, I'll have to bring my plans forward a bit
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Mon, 23 September 2002 09:19
|
|
you can't always tell as you don't know what its like under the paint and you really have to see it to take a GUESS but also depends on where you live and time of year, always find rust moves quicker through winter as thats when its wetter,
but a general rule of thumb is get rid of it as soon as possible, leave it to long and it gets worse and will usually mean it will cost you even more to fix
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Panel Beating ( RUST)
|
Mon, 23 September 2002 13:46
|
|
Sorry about this,
but rust is only delayable not avoidable.
The chemistry is that iron oxidises (i.e., rusts) on contact with O2 in air.
Trouble is that rust spreads underneath so called sealed (painted) panels along iron grain crystal boundaries.
Rust convertor is phosphoric acid which combines with iron to form iron phosphate - which is resitant to oxidation. There are iron pillars dating from ancient medevil England which are rust resistant because the iron is phosphate rich.
But, the rule is cut as much out as you can. Be generous as threads if rust extend in the metal grain. Sand off and as soon as possible use phosphoric acid. If you leave a rough surface there is more surface area and little bits which rust quicker - so polish. Clean up and then seal off. Iron filings will seed more rust. Fish oil is more of a water repellant and liguid silicone should do the same but fish oil is very sticky and hangs around. Silicone on top of paint stops water from hanging around.
Keep you car dry. If you can't do this spray inside and out with silicone 'oil' frequently.
Remember,
As Neil Young wrote
rust never sleeps.
|
|
|
