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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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dodgey idle
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Sat, 17 July 2004 08:11
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hey ppls
heres the problem, my car has a lumpy idle(its a celica 1990 ST184), you can quite literally watch the tacho bounce up and down, it pretty dodgey, i looked it up in the hanes teardown and rebuild manual, give the usual possible problems for this:
+ vacume sensor leaking,
+ insignificat fuel
+ EGR valve leaking
+ head gastket
+ timming belt worn/cam pullys worn
the car with out throattle feels like the map sensor is goin, however i had this replaced a couple of months ago, i don't belive that its anything to do with the fuel as it seems to be running very rich when cold, once warm it doesn't run rich that i can tell.
i checked all the little pipes that were comming off the throttle body, none of them seem to be leaking how ever some of them look like they are starting to crack from heat.
the timming belt was changed about a month b4 the map sensor.
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Registered:
May 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sat, 17 July 2004 13:32
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air leak
intake air leak
injector rubber?
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sat, 17 July 2004 14:24
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air is not leaking, in intake pipe is one complete piece and it is map sensored as in i don't have an AFM so i wouldn't change anything.
injector rubber?
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 18 July 2004 09:22
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Have you reset the ECU lately?
To reset the ECU properly you must:
1. Get the car to operating condition
2. Turn the car off and remove the EFI fuse
3. Wait 30 odd seconds then reinstall the fuse
4. Start the car... wait for the idle to stabilise
5. Then turn the car off and repeat process 4 a couple more times
6. Once the idle has stabilised go for a drive for 15 mins.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sunshine Coast
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 18 July 2004 09:36
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dingaling is ur mates A/C on when it is ideling like shit?..mine does that to..it still idles crap with out it on but like wayyyyyyy better then when the ac is on..oh and when my lights turn on the idle drops to..any ideas?
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 18 July 2004 13:30
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i just want to get my new engine!!!! anyone know incurance is like on a car with a new engine ~different of course, i want a series 3 3SGE~
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 18 July 2004 16:26
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my celica does that too. its a 2TGEU and the idles keep hunting.. no ones ever been able to solve my problem. could it be the cam timings?
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 18 July 2004 23:28
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| dingaling wrote on Sun, 18 July 2004 20:36 |
yeah those are the same symptoms. That's why i suspect the ISC (idle speed controller)isn't doing it's job. it should be revving the engine higher to compensate for the load on the alternator.
does your 3sge idle fine when you first start it up? then when it warms up starts doing the funny idle thing yet drives perfectly fine?
i'll try what toobs suggested.
Is there a 3sge service manula online anywhere?
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This situation sounds like a dirty/old o2 sensor(disconnect it and see what happens), or extremely dirty throttle body?
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 18 July 2004 23:31
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wow, there are a few celica's with dodgey idling speeds, all different models??
i think my cams might be out by a little bit but i don't see how thats possible, wouldn't the engine have a spack if it were?
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: dodgey idle
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Mon, 19 July 2004 16:45
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these cars like to play games.. i got mine tuned at a carby place $40 on the o2 machine.. got it adjusted sweet as.. driving off 10 mins later back to the same shit...
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 20 July 2004 01:59
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well thats gotta suck don't it
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 20 July 2004 10:13
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I don't know why it does it but whenever I have to work on the car and pull the -ve terminal off the battery it idles like c-rap until i've followed the process above.
And yes my idle up switch thingy was stuffed too at one stage and the car idled really low when the aircon was on but a trip to pickies fixed that pretty quick...
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 20 July 2004 13:40
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well hopefully the 3sge engine i'm looking at insalling wants kill me as much as this one.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 20 July 2004 13:50
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i'll be working on my friends 3sge celica on friday or saturday, i will let you guys know what i find out.
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 20 July 2004 14:22
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anyone tinkered with a series 3 3sge???? we didn't get the 202 celica here so that leaves MR2 drivers!!!
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 20 July 2004 15:05
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does this things throttle body have 2 small coolant hoses connected to a valve on it? if so, that valve can cause these symptoms.
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Wed, 21 July 2004 08:06
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i dunno i'll look in the morning, where about is this valve usually situated, near the butterfly?
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Registered:
May 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Wed, 21 July 2004 21:11
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describe wen and how the idle goes bad
it idles smooth wen cold?
but higher rpm's, right?
how rythmic is it wen it's not right?
duz it stay the same or fluctuate the rhythym?
has to be air/gas mix, right?
so you got an air leak i assume
wut do the plugs look like?
hav you checked the spark wen it duz it?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 22 July 2004 00:55
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I got the same issue with my 1gen 3sge.
It happens to me after braking most of the time (the brake booster normally would lower revs for a lil but..) it will drop from 800rpm to 350rpm then back up to 1000rpm then back down to 350rpm and so on...
To stop it from happening a lot, cause i feel like a wanker next to people in traffic with the car like this... i turned the idle up to 1000rpm... it fixed the problem till i find out what is really wrong.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 22 July 2004 08:25
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i also have uneven idle on my car 3tgte, it idles smooth for about 10sec then drops to 300rpm and stalls if i dont rev it back up. (everybody thinks i want to drag them wen this happens  ) is there a way to manually adjust the idle without taking it to a dyno place. car also has microtech digi 1 computer.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 22 July 2004 11:10
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I had a similar problem with my 2T-GEU in my TA23, adjusted the AFM and it seemed to solve the problem, lost a bit of fuel efficiency, but it certainly idled much more reliably.
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 22 July 2004 14:16
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okay well my current engine is the one it question its a 5SFE, the actual problem is that it flucuates at idle or basically when no throattle is applied, this means that when in gear and no throattle is applied you can feel little "jerks" thru the car and if you didn't know better you would assume its just bumps in the road. the engine almost seems like its not balanced if you know what i mean, it will regularly fluctuate between lower and higher parts, and as my timming belt is too tight, and i have my idle turned up to lose the rotten shake it sends thru the car you can hear it.
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Registered:
May 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 22 July 2004 17:25
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i'm not familiar with that motor and efi
but
sounds like you hav a rhythmically regular idle offense
which means it's it's an intake air leak
could possibly be caused by the efi
i'd think the ecu is fine, it may be reacting to a sensor input
i dun hav a map sensor
on my 22re, there's not much to the idle circuit
you could try taking sum 02 sensor readings wen the idle goes bad
on a 22re, if you turn up the idle rpms, it soon starts surging up and down as the ecu tries to correct the idle a/f mix
i had a slight dip in idle speed every 2 1/2 seconds
it wuz an injector grommet sucking in air
i could see a spark plug looked 'dry' on one cylinder
so i knew where to start my search ...
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sat, 24 July 2004 06:45
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Hey fella's I had a look at my friends 3sge ( has a fluctuating idle when warmed up)
i reset the ECU 5 or so times like toobs suggested, didn't fix it. disconnected the oxygen sensor and it didn't seem to make a difference, so perhaps the 02 sensor is bad? i'd need to measur its reading with a multi meter, actually the car smelt like it was running rich so perhaps the O2 was working.
I'm quite sure it's a sensor of some sort out of tune, or just not working, but i need a 3sge service manual to check it out properly.
any suggestions as to what to check?
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Location:
Malaysia
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 12 September 2004 07:23
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Hi guys,
This is my first post here, so hope you guys can help me out on this ...
My EE90 is using a transplated 4AGE 16V. What I am experiencing currently is this :
- each time I depress the brakes, RPM drops by 100. If the car is idling @ 750, it'll drop to 650, causing the car to vibrate quite badly and I have to release the brakes to stop the vibrations
- each time the radiator and engine fans come on, the RPM meter swings up and down, from 750 to 600 and back, and the whole car vibrates badly
All this is with the aircon off ... with the aircon on, sometimes the RPM will drop to 500, then go back up again. So when all this is happening at the same time, the engine like want to quit and the RPM swings up and down.
Any ideas anyone?
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 12 September 2004 08:18
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check the idle speed controller.
does the car drive fine otherwise?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 12 September 2004 13:49
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I had that same problem with my RPM dropping when i hit the brakes. I even posted about it here  People said it was normal and nothing to worry about, but after a while my car would just stall when i hit the brakes. My mechanic finally figured it out this weekend - when all the stuff was on, the battery wasn't being charged. As a result, the spark would get weaker and weaker till the engine died... and then it wouldn't start again. I guess it could be an alternator problem (or maybe slipping fan belt) but in my case i needed a new regulator wired up. Now i still lose a bit of revs when all the accessories are on, but the battery is still getting enough juice to charge so the engine doesn't fall over.
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Location:
Malaysia
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sun, 12 September 2004 14:04
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dingaling,
Yes, the car drives fine otherwise. Sorry, newbie here - just where is the ISC located? Thanks.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Mon, 13 September 2004 03:39
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under the throttle body, i should find a pic to show you. (let me know and i will find a pic)
Thing is this Idle Speed Controller is ment to rev the engine up when there is a big electrical load on the alternator. The AC has it's own idle up sensor. It sounds like all your idle issues happen when there is a load on the alternator, so that narrowes out vaccuum leaks.
download this and have a read of it.
members.dodo.net.au/~urantiacjd/h60.pdf
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Location:
Malaysia
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Mon, 13 September 2004 03:49
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dingaling, yes a picture would certainly help a lot...
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Mon, 13 September 2004 04:02
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since i don't own the celica i can't get you a good pic, but i have a part i can take a pic of and draw in the rest to show you were the isc is. will post later.
also have a look at this PDF it will really help you i'm sure.
members.dodo.net.au/~urantiacjd/h26.pdf
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Location:
Malaysia
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Mon, 13 September 2004 05:15
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dingaling, yes ... will wait for the picture. thanks for the link ... will certainly read it up.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Mon, 13 September 2004 10:46
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had to look hard on the toymod forums to find a pic to use. Don't sue me whoever took this pic, it's for educational purposes 
ctan13: ok it's hard to tell from that picture, but the Idle Speed Controller is under the throtle body, it has a few pipes going into it. Someone here might know a simple way to test that it works properly. I'd take it out and check that it's not jammed up etc.
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Location:
Malaysia
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 14 September 2004 01:09
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dingaling, thanks for the pic. Should the inlet on the ISC, below the two connecting to the map sensor, be completely blocked or connected to something?
I was fumbling around that area last evening and something dropped into the engine bay and I can't find what it was. When I restarted the engine, the rpm shot to 3500 and stayed there. When I blocked the inlet, the rpm returned to "normal" - so I know something used to be connected to this inlet. This morning, I found that my idle speed after warming up has dropped to 600! What should be connected to this inlet or where should it be connected to?
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 14 September 2004 03:00
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Do you have a digital camera? sounds like you have a hose disconnected, and you dropped a hose clamp in the engine bay somewhere.
The ISC would stay shut when there is no big electrical loads on the alternator, and when the voltage drops the ISC opens to stablize voltage, and thus increase RPM by letting more air in.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Tue, 14 September 2004 03:46
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It could also be your throttle position sensor (TPS).
My 3TGTE used to idle like a bitch when the TPS connector fell off 
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: dodgey idle
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Wed, 15 September 2004 03:48
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My corona was idling like shit so I just adjusted it up to 1000rpm it will idle okay at 800 but occasionally stutters and drops down.
When I pump the brakes in my car when stationary the car will start to rev at 1200rpm, quite funny.
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Location:
Malaysia
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 16 September 2004 01:12
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Hi all,
I finally found an image of the TB somewhere from this forum that shows the vacuum inlet I was talking about ...
That's the one on the lowest right with the big red circle. Anyone knows where this inlet should be connected to? On my engine, the other two reds goes to the MAP sensor.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 16 September 2004 01:14
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yer this sounds familiar.....
My brothers 86 sx celica 3sge has the exact same problem. Happens on and off for the last like 2 years. So i guess its not uncommon.
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 16 September 2004 01:33
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ummm okay everyone i just found that this post of mine showed up again, its sounds like a common problem, remember my map sensor has just been replaced, however yesterday i noticed that the throattle didn't spring all the way back immidately when you play with it, i sprayed some WD40 on its, and its cleaned up this a bit, i also brought some tune up oil additive that is suppose to re lubricate the valve springs and all that fun stuff its seems to be more stable at idle but i still have little bit of a uneven idle but its doesn't seem quite so sereve now.
acouple of weeks i ran some injector cleaner, its all good now the engine sounds cleaner, ~intake got alittle louder, when it was suppose to get quiter, oh well so it sounds like my car is moving.
might i suggest to ppl that if the idle seems alittle dodgey get some stuff thru the engine and clean it out, at minimum it will rule it out as the problem.
Regards Duncan
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 16 September 2004 05:21
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| ctan13 wrote on Sun, 12 September 2004 17:23 |
Hi guys,
This is my first post here, so hope you guys can help me out on this ...
My EE90 is using a transplated 4AGE 16V. What I am experiencing currently is this :
- each time I depress the brakes, RPM drops by 100. If the car is idling @ 750, it'll drop to 650, causing the car to vibrate quite badly and I have to release the brakes to stop the vibrations
- each time the radiator and engine fans come on, the RPM meter swings up and down, from 750 to 600 and back, and the whole car vibrates badly
All this is with the aircon off ... with the aircon on, sometimes the RPM will drop to 500, then go back up again. So when all this is happening at the same time, the engine like want to quit and the RPM swings up and down.
Any ideas anyone?
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PPl, this guy is running a 4age, not a 3sge. just pointin out just incase u guys r leading him the wrong direction
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 16 September 2004 13:27
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yeah well the original post was made by me, and was in regards to a 5SFE.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Thu, 16 September 2004 14:01
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yea. just didnt want the 4age dude to get wrong info. anyway, did u try cleaning throttle body? My guess is that problem
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Location:
Malaysia
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Fri, 17 September 2004 00:08
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ok guys ... I'm here to learn and I appreciate all the help and suggestions I have been getting so far from all of you.
b1gb3n, that could be a possible area, besides the ISC. Btw, no one has yet replied to my question with the image - where should that host connect to? There always a vacuum action there, with a cold or hot engine.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: dodgey idle
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Fri, 17 September 2004 00:15
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yeah i know he has a 4age, but the Things i told him are quite genaral and in the same place. (ISC) and 4age has TVIS too.
Anyway Can anybody help the man with that pipe connection? the one circled in red? I don't have the car here to look at, or the servive manual.
ctan13: are you sure you can't find a stray hose that fits that pipe? I'll have a look this weekend when my friend comes around with his car to see where that pipe connects to.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Fri, 17 September 2004 01:11
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i'll have a look at that pipe too on my car tonight if possible. goin mini cruise with few friends. Bound to check out each others engine bay!!
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Fri, 17 September 2004 12:12
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damn it no matter what i do to the car it will fix it for a little while then go back its usual self, its less serve at the moment for now.
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Location:
Tom Price
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Fri, 17 September 2004 19:38
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On some celica's that i have come across with aircon's, there is no idle up solenoid for when the aircon is on, more load on the engine, no idle up causes less revs, fitting an after market solenoid for the aircon idleup usually fixes the problem.
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Location:
Brissy QLD
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: dodgey idle
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Sat, 18 September 2004 03:31
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yep mine idles up, however my aircon doesn't work now i think it need to be regased or i need to replace some things, all the aircon units are in the front of the car right? i might be able to install the ST202's aircon unit when i get the front cut.
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