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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:05
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does anyone know what they are , apparently they supposed to make ur carrun smoother , and lights dont dim , revs dont drop when lights are turned on etc etc ,
some one fill me in
cheers
oh btw they cost 80 dollars , i dunno what u get in em that why im asking , i haven seen one yet
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:14
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although I have no basis for my claim, I think they are just another "cool" thing you can do to your car to make your engine bay look pretty 
can anyone prove or disprove this?
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:16
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yeah apparently about 5 people fitted this same kit and got a smoother running engine , and some dude sad his car stopped vibrating during cold starts
dunnowhat exactly this thing is , but ive been told they are wires of some sort and are gold plated termibnals and all
88 dollars for them
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:23
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I'd say people notice improvement more so because they originally had a earth problem, and these leads have fixed that.
If you have a good earths then I can't see how these can make any improvement.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:25
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WHAT EXACTLY ARE THESE SO CALLED EARTHING KITS
ANYONE HAVE AN IDEA
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:36
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It's a big fat electrical cable which comes with a BONUS huge mark-up on the price-tag. They're sold to people with too much money and no understanding of how their car works.
As mentioned above, if your electrical system is in good working order an "earthing kit" will do SFA. Alternatively you could make your own cable for less than ten bucks.
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Location:
SW Brisbane, Qld
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:40
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Go to Jaycar or something and get some 4 gauge wire and some gold terminals, IF your lights dim or you have trouble starting and all that... DON'T spend $80 on a kit.
The kits consist of shiny oxygen free copper cables, gold plated terminals and all that, which arguably have lower resistances and impedance values, but they're still overpriced.
So you hook these kits up, replace your original earth leads, and your car's electrical system smells better.
IF YOU REALLY THINK IT'S WORTH IT, go buy a few metres of 4 gauge wire, and some gold ring terminals.
You'll spend maybe $20.
EDIT: Yeah, what Norbs said.
[Updated on: Wed, 28 July 2004 05:41]
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:45
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DAMN NORBIE , thanks mate , now how to make the cable for 10 bucks , and where does this cblego
i know nothing abput the electrical parts of the car 
i get the cold start shuddering , and diming of lights and wanna see if it will go away with one of these earth kits
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:50
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DAMN POSTED WITHOUT READING ,
THANKS FELLAS ,
now what wire do i ahve to replace ,
i have car starting trouble when cold takes some time in the first clik to start
when i got it it srated as soon as i turned the key
still starts the same as when got it when the car is warm though -- ie straigh way after turning the key ,
in the cold start mornings , i ahve to hold the key in there a few seconds but still starts at only the first go , just takes longer
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Location:
SW Brisbane, Qld
Registered:
February 2004
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:27
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cool thanks , mifght go have a look now
so defenitly , ive seen the one from battery to chassis , i think , is there one from distributor as well
ah damn iil just go see , replace evrything thats black wire with this wire
cheers
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Location:
SW Brisbane, Qld
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:28
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Not everything that's black wire, it has to be black and thick and you shoudl be able to trace it along from battery to chassis, there shouldn't be one to the distributor, there will be a negative to the distributor but it's kinda different to the ones you want to be replacing, so don't replace that one.
Starter motor you might want to though.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:30
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ahh yes i know battery from chasis one , i got the 1g-gte motor and theres one right near the batery connected to the panel of the car , also starter motor on yes ive seen one there as well , havent seen the gear box one , but cheers anyway wil have a look first before doing anything
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 07:00
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I suppose all that tbe people who have very bad grounding problems would find the kit handy, though I agree with Norbie, it's a bunch of wire call "Grounding kit" with a huge mark up on pricing. It's cheaper getting to all the grounding points in the car and clean it all up.
That's my 2 Cents worth.
Cheers.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 07:11
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just remember if you want a better ground on a chassis clean off the paint so its actually toching metal and not relying on the thread of the bolt to ground it
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 08:43
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cheap and easy
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 11:58
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Even if they did work , look damn ugly as hell and very messy looking
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 28 July 2004 14:16
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Get out the multimeter, fire up the engine, turn on everything electrical, and MEASURE the voltage between earth points - the closer to zero, the beter.
Also, it's probably very easy to FEEL the improvement, especially when you've just bought something shiny! So many can 'feel' the massive improvement that just fitting a lampshade filter makes. These are usually the same people who have a cousins-uncles-vets-butchers-brother who can cook a really cool chip for their 180sx that gives it 760RWKW on a fulstok turbz...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Thu, 29 July 2004 00:05
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Bingo. It's the automotive equivalent of the placebo effect.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Thu, 29 July 2004 00:19
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| Beer_is_good wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:40 |
Go to Jaycar or something and get some 4 gauge wire and some gold terminals, IF your lights dim or you have trouble starting and all that... DON'T spend $80 on a kit.
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I heartily agree - there are some benefits to be gained from better earthing but $88 a kit is a rip off.
You can even purchase proper ones off Ebay for $40 however it'd be cheaper if you made your own. Just have to work out the earthing points is all ...
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Location:
SW Brisbane, Qld
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Thu, 29 July 2004 07:00
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When I wired up one of my own kits ($12 it cost me), I found improvement only in the lights and starting up... and that was because most of my terminals were crusted over, and I used thicker, "better" (OFC - I won't start the debate here) wire, so I genuinely did have a problem and made an objective improvement.
Each to their own.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Thu, 29 July 2004 14:47
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ae86drift is that just one long wire that loops from the neg batt terminal, stopping at each grounding point with a terminal and then back to the battery? I cant quite tell from the pic?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Thu, 29 July 2004 16:32
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Well if youre facing a grounding problem, dont bother with the jap (expensive) wank factor grounding kits and dont bother with wires either. Just get some THICK grounding / electrical cable (the cable i'm using is around 20mm), (not wire - or wires) and add another grounding point to the gearbox / motor from the battery.
You dont need heaps of em (as you want to minimise any possibility of gounding loops)
I was dropping 0.7v from the battery to the block and i had instrumentation problems - gauges not working etc. This fixed it real fast and it helped with the engine starting (less cranking required).
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 01:18
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Dood, i agree.
But in my personal opinion, i feel that after you add 1 large cable (terminated well to minimse connector losses), subsequent grounding points dont do a great deal more.
Of course the most significant gains are going to be seen with cars that have grounding points that do not conduct well. On these you'll feel a difference straight away. But with the better engineered cars, it might be a different story.
I've also heard of capacitors (close to 1F from memory) added to better the electrical conditioning also does a tiny amount to the dyno power. - Heard not seen.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 01:25
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That's very true of cars with bad negative points; Commodores are notorious for having hopelessly inadequate earths.
What you said about the amount of cables is also correct. I must admit the larger kit that we sell (has 8 x 4AWG cables) does no better than the small one (4 x 4AWG cables) on the dyno.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 01:30
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ok so whats the main wire which will need to be replaced and where exactly will i find the damn thing in a 1G-GTE engine
ive experienced the more cranking to start the engine , although it always start s in the first turn of the key exept takes a bit more time , dimming lights and vibrating engine , on cold start
cheers
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 01:34
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how do you propose that you get 7kw improvement?
better sparks?
i think if toyota thought they could get 7kw just from increasing the grounding from block to battery, they would have done it, particularly with more exxy models. whilst i don't have total faith in car companies, that is a massive gain you are talking about.
less mechanical loss from alternator?
hmm.. 100A alternator, 14V, 1400W, even with 50% efficiency an alternator will only suck 2.8kw TOTAL if running at MAXIMUM CAPACITY, which it rarely does..
notice on that sitem, the magnitude of the voltage changes is in millivolts.. bestimprovement was less than 5/1000th of a volt
compared to the actual voltage.. 5/14000 = 0.036% change?
the | Quote: |
ignition coil backlash noise
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on the starlet was 205mV = 1.46% of car voltage.. and they halve that noise..
call me sceptical, but massive gains will not occur unless your earths sucked MASSIVELY in the first place.
i totally agree with you that is the termination that is the problem.. but with audio, you pull much larger currents than are usually used (except for starting) and car systems are not designed to pull average 100A or so..
so anyway, i'd love to see the dyno proof of this 7kw change. averaged out between 3 runs each with and without, with same conditions, would be scientific enough for me  
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 01:38
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Heya Fhrx,
That looks like a real top notch audio store .. going on the list great stuff at the store.
If sonus faber made speakers for cars.. i'd be sorely tempted.
I have not slept in 20 hrs... time to get some shut eye.
James
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 01:39
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all you need to do is make sure that the main power cables are in good condition and adequately sized for the current they draw..
have a seperate battery-starter and battery-alternator cables.
earth the block to chassis, earth both block and chassis to battery? (i admit i am a bit vague on ground loops )
for high current apps (like lights, alternator, amps) earth directly to battery (also helps when your alternator mounts come loose ) rather than thru chassis.
for higher than normal headlight globes, run wire of sufficient capacity for both power and earth return..
there's no frickin secrets here, just use something adequately sized for the job!!!! same as you do for exhaust or fuel.
if your headlights pull 20A, make sure the wire can comfortably handle 20A without heating up (and increasing resistance)
same with starter, but maybe aim for 120-150A for starter cable?
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 01:39
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yeah 7kw was done when it was cooler 
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Location:
SW Brisbane, Qld
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 02:03
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Cooler, and they realised they forgot to hook up 2 of the spark plugs in the first place, so there was a power gain when they included those two cylinders... 
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 02:13
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ok now im confused anyone got pic of the earthing equipment done on a 1g-gte engine , so i can follow suit
CHEERS
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 02:26
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| indian wrote on Fri, 30 July 2004 12:13 |
ok now im confused anyone got pic of the earthing equipment done on a 1g-gte engine , so i can follow suit
CHEERS
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battery -ve to chassis
battery -ve to block
battery -ve to gearbox (if you feel the need) or block to gearbox.
seperate earth cable for alternator and headlights and other high current devices.
seperate power cable for headlights, starter and alternator and other high current devices.
buy cable. fit cable..
if thats too hard, just buy an earthing kit.
CYa, Stewart
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 12:23
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:23 |
I'd say people notice improvement more so because they originally had a earth problem, and these leads have fixed that.
If you have a good earths then I can't see how these can make any improvement.
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I cant imagine Garth's car would have an earthing problem, being a standard Toyota motor (although it is a 20yrs old car), but i tried it, similar to Garths and it made a difference too my motor, only cost me $2. What can it hurt,only gains to be had.
Cheers
Steve
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sunshine Coast
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Fri, 30 July 2004 23:41
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sorry to be a pain..ive got a 3sge in my st162 and have done a rebuid on the engine..ever since then the idle is all over the place..revs drop atleast 200 when lights are tunred on and another 20 when A/C is on.. meaning it idles at 600 with lights and A/c..its also a bitch to start takes a few tries.. im also prety sure the alternator cable is missing..can anyone show me with a picture of were the earthjs to replace are..procedure also(just a short 1) thanks.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Sat, 31 July 2004 00:24
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I think there's a wire between the alternator and where the power steering fluid reservoir is mounted (look here). But that probably won't improve your idle much. It's possible you have a vacuum leak or the idle VSV is faulty. Alternatively, ST162s are a bit odd because I have the same problem!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Tue, 03 August 2004 13:23
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I just raided jaycar today for a few bits to knock up my own little earthing kit.
Part Numbers for those interested in making their own
4ga Oxygen Free Pwr Cable - WH3066
Gold Ring Terminals (suit 4ga) - PT4564
Gold Batt Terminal (not essential) - HC4040
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Tue, 03 August 2004 13:33
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earthing kits?? who's been hanging around the yanks again??
i just make my own shit. Buy cable, crimp terminals, etc etc but thats cos it costs me less than replacing the originals.
just look at what pimpboy got (ignore the writing):
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Tue, 03 August 2004 13:39
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theres a noticable difference in my throttle respose
not a placebo effect, NOTICABLY DIFFERENT.
theres naysayers in the effects of grounding kits
the japanese proved the kits make a difference with dyno tunes on the SAME DAY on the SAME DYNO with the SAME SETUP
so grounding your engine does make some changes, be it 1kw in POWER
but i found no extra power and a HELL of a lot more response.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: earthing kits
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Tue, 03 August 2004 13:45
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i recon you but the kit, find out whats in it and photocopy instructions and then return it 
Or
even in the store tell them you wanna make sure its all there or something and go through it
but $88 JEEZ what a rort!!!!!!!!
PS if anyone does this then pass on the info if i do it before anyone then ill post up cause i believe if you are gonna get rorted for something crap like that then it should be free to all
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Tue, 03 August 2004 13:49
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There is nothing to it, buy the materials and DIY.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Tue, 03 August 2004 13:49
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i paid almost nothing for mine
buncha cable and eyelets and cable ties
simple and effective
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Tue, 03 August 2004 13:52
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*witzl gets product idea no. 132 to rip-off dumbasses*
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Tue, 03 August 2004 14:10
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There's been a fair bit of conjecture about this in the RAV4 circles as well... a lot of division about what it does, what it doesn't, benefits and shit...
Honestly, make your own. If you've seen what HKS sells these for (sometimes around $400 for their "circle-earth" kit ), save yourself a wad of cash and do just as good as the 'big-guys'.
These circle-earth kits run one (or two) leads from the -ve terminal to a hub or a ring of connectors. From there, you got about 16 different points in which you can ground stuff to using their 8-ga cable. The come pre-cut and connected in different lengths, non-make-or-model-specific, which is what you're shelling-out for (as well as the name). I've had more people tell me that there is better responsiveness to be had and brighter lights, clearer radio, easier starting, etc. than those who have knocked the idea.
The way that most people go for is called "daisy-chaining" or doing the earths point-to-point. Battery -ve to chassis, batt. -ve to block, block to gearbox, gearbox to throttle body, etc. What you end up with is a maze of wires if you don't zip-tie them securely to something. 
I'm still indifferent on them, but if I were to do something like this, I'd use no less than 4-ga OFC and gold connectors. 
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 04 August 2004 01:00
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| ae86drift wrote on Tue, 03 August 2004 23:39 |
theres a noticable difference in my throttle respose
not a placebo effect, NOTICABLY DIFFERENT.
but i found no extra power and a HELL of a lot more response.
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fair enough. so why did it work? are you saying that you had such bad earthing before that you needed it? is it the extra current capacity of the bigger wires that does it? is the the better/cleaner terminations?
it's all well and good to say a 'snake oil' works, but unless there is a reason for it to work, it's still snake oil
i'm not saying that it didn't work for you, i just want to know why it made such a difference!!!!
what earthing did you have before? did you clean up the areas where the normal earths were terminated at the same time?
Cya, Stewart
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Registered:
April 2003
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 04 August 2004 07:41
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these things are great. we bought some for my dads hvs GTS VR and got 15kw at the treads. but i have to agree now that i have seen what they are made of there are much cheaper alternatives.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 04 August 2004 09:27
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| oldcorollas wrote on Wed, 04 August 2004 11:00 |
| ae86drift wrote on Tue, 03 August 2004 23:39 |
theres a noticable difference in my throttle respose
not a placebo effect, NOTICABLY DIFFERENT.
but i found no extra power and a HELL of a lot more response.
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fair enough. so why did it work? are you saying that you had such bad earthing before that you needed it? is it the extra current capacity of the bigger wires that does it? is the the better/cleaner terminations?
it's all well and good to say a 'snake oil' works, but unless there is a reason for it to work, it's still snake oil
i'm not saying that it didn't work for you, i just want to know why it made such a difference!!!!
what earthing did you have before? did you clean up the areas where the normal earths were terminated at the same time?
Cya, Stewart
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my car has standard earthing before
1 main strap
1 tiny head strap from near the exhaust side engine hook
i didnt touch these when i put the earthing kit on.
the wire i used wasnt that big, just good quality insulated stereo wire. i simply just earthed the right "positive electrical" points on the motor back to negative on battery.
ie.
tps
injector rail (close enough)
alternator
distributor
hence is why its got a better response, the positive can flow of to negative better/faster/more efficiently = better response
i dont claim to be an electronic engineer or even a electronics enthusiast, but damn, it felt so much smoother and more responsive.
id say its simply better earthing, cleaner, closer/more relevant earthing points. maybe extra current capacity too. but i wouldnt be able to back that up.
hope that clears it up. trust me i was skeptical, but i was shown solid proof coz my car started and ran like a dog previous to the install. nows its zippy!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 04 August 2004 10:53
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once again I think what you have said is that you had an earthing problem to start with. ie running like a dog.
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 04 August 2004 12:12
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The bigger gauge wires clearly define that they would be able to carry more current... the pissy little 12-16 gauge wires that cars come stock with don't carry nearly as much current as OFC 4 or 8 gauge cable. And obviously the better/cleaner the grounding point for the terminals, the easier the current will flow point-to-point.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: earthing kits
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Wed, 04 August 2004 18:21
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| Bugman wrote on Wed, 04 August 2004 20:53 |
once again I think what you have said is that you had an earthing problem to start with. ie running like a dog.
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no i didnt have a problem. i had standard issue 20yr old earthing on my engine. that was hindering the efficiency of the setup
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