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Registered:
August 2003
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Noob questions: gear shifting
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Wed, 28 July 2004 15:13
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Hi there, I've been driving my stock Sprinter for a few weeks now and its the first manual car i've driven so I am seeking advice from you guys!
1. What RPM is good for upshift? I noticed autos upshift at 3k RPM. But it feels smoother when I shift at ~2.7k.
2. Is the 1-3K RPM range the most fuel economical? Even when accelerating hard (not for racing)?
3. I have trouble shifting down to 1st gear when its moving at around 5-20km/hr (doesn't feel smooth, requires more effort). Friend once said it should only be used if car is stationary...
4. During downshift I'd rev the engine up to, say, ~3k RPM before releasing the clutch, however, at slow speeds (3rd -> 2nd) it feels smooth enough and sometimes I just don't bother revving it - is this bad for the drivetrain even at slow speeds?
Thanks in advance.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Wed, 28 July 2004 16:26
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1. depends on car but you should be able to feel when is good. So really whatever feels right for you.
2. not always. If the engine is labouring (too low revs for a given situation) that is not good for the engine. It will shudder a bit if it is way too low.
3. I always thought you shouldn't put it into first until you are going really slowly. In older cars you couldn't put it into first until you were stopped but that wouldn't be the case with your car.
4. Shouldn't be. I don't blip the throttle every time I down shift and haven't had any adverse affects.
later
Chris
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 00:14
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u watch too many 'drift' videos.
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Location:
Ferntree Gully, Melbourne
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 00:18
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is this before or after you battled the redsuns on the downhill?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 00:47
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shifting at 11k rpm is most economical... i swear..
sorry... haha
you guys are so harsh 
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:07
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as you approach a corner, downshift from say 4th into neutral, then with your right foot covering the brake as you slow for entry to the corner, take your left foot off the clutch pedal, and move it over to the throttle pedal, give it a blip, then quickly uncross your legs back to engage 3rd gear. try not to move your right foot off the brake as this can upset the balance of the car.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:18
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 12:07 |
take your left foot off the clutch pedal, and move it over to the throttle pedal, give it a blip, then quickly uncross your legs back to engage 3rd gear. try not to move your right foot off the brake as this can upset the balance of the car.
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You aren't serious about this bit are you, you'd just heel-toe it??? Right????
And I downshift into 1st some times. I need to rev it pretty high to match the G'box shaft speed (around 4-5k when im doing about 30 kays).
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:22
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:24
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| Benjamin wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 12:18 |
| ed_ma61 wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 12:07 |
take your left foot off the clutch pedal, and move it over to the throttle pedal, give it a blip, then quickly uncross your legs back to engage 3rd gear. try not to move your right foot off the brake as this can upset the balance of the car.
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You aren't serious about this bit are you, you'd just heel-toe it??? Right????
And I downshift into 1st some times. I need to rev it pretty high to match the G'box shaft speed (around 4-5k when im doing about 30 kays).
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Obviouosly you aren't very skilled.......
Why would you be shifting back into first unless you were pulling a handbrake turn or drifting a tight track or corner?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:26
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oh when I pull into my driveway...
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:28
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| Benjamin wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 12:26 |
oh when I pull into my driveway...
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Hmmmmm...... 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:33
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| AE86slut wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 12:28 |
| Benjamin wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 12:26 |
oh when I pull into my driveway...
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Hmmmmm......
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lol
I do downshift when I go through galston gorge. I don't drift.
But I do like the feeling of powering uphill in first from a near standstill. I don't go quick enough around the hairpins to be in second. Maybe one day I will learn...
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:37
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Oh yeah, those hairpins require first sometimes... Unless you wanna hit a big rock wall or have a shiteload of low-down torque. 
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Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:45
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rob_ra40: I read somewhere that it was important to rev it when downshifting - drift videos?? Not yet, mate, not yet 
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:51
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I guess the main reason for matching revs when downshifting would be to stop compression lock, and therefore keeping the car stable and straight when entering a corner.
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Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 13:53
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OK finally found it - this is the site I read waaay before I drove manual: http://www.nerocam.com/ManTrans.asp
ae86slut: are you saying that keeping the car stable and straight while driving in a straight line isn't an important reason for matching revs?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Thu, 29 July 2004 15:08
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most fuel efficient way to drive is to shift as early as possible and sit in as high a gear as possible
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Fri, 30 July 2004 03:58
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| Intensevil wrote on Fri, 30 July 2004 01:08 |
most fuel efficient way to drive is to shift as early as possible and sit in as high a gear as possible
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*Without labouring or pinging.
I rev match when downshifting all the time. Mainly 'cuz I'm a Takumi wannabe. Heel-toe, heel-toe. Sometimes I have downshift to first, as my car rolls a hell of a lot around corners and it's surprisingly easy to understeer the damned thing if I enter a little too fast. And what with it's total lack of torque what so ever I have to rev to get it moving in the kinda way I want it to. So yeah, it just takes practice to match the box up to the engine between changes, especially when going from second to first.
Oh yeah I drive a 1992 CB Lancer with worn shocks and an old tired bitsamissing engine.
Okay, now start flaming me for driving a shit car like I'm racing. *puts on flame suit* 
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Location:
Posts: 992738234
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Fri, 30 July 2004 04:41
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| Shraka wrote on Fri, 30 July 2004 13:58 |
| Intensevil wrote on Fri, 30 July 2004 01:08 |
most fuel efficient way to drive is to shift as early as possible and sit in as high a gear as possible
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*Without labouring or pinging.
I rev match when downshifting all the time. Mainly 'cuz I'm a Takumi wannabe. Heel-toe, heel-toe. Sometimes I have downshift to first, as my car rolls a hell of a lot around corners and it's surprisingly easy to understeer the damned thing if I enter a little too fast. And what with it's total lack of torque what so ever I have to rev to get it moving in the kinda way I want it to. So yeah, it just takes practice to match the box up to the engine between changes, especially when going from second to first.
Oh yeah I drive a 1992 CB Lancer with worn shocks and an old tired bitsamissing engine.
Okay, now start flaming me for driving a shit car like I'm racing. *puts on flame suit*
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Tis true, he dose heel-toe, poor abused cb lancer...
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Fri, 30 July 2004 05:07
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| letmedrift wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 23:53 |
ae86slut: are you saying that keeping the car stable and straight while driving in a straight line isn't an important reason for matching revs?
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Ummm...... No, but unless you are trying to be Fangio on the street, the only time you are going to be trying to slow down in a real hurry hence NEEDING to heel-toe is when entering a corner on a racetrack. Why would you be shifting down so quick that you needed to heel-toe while stopping in a straight line.....Unless it is an emergency braking maneuvre. Even so, the car will only squirm a little bit if you are keeping the wheels straight.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Fri, 30 July 2004 12:40
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heel toeing on the street is pointless, the whole point is so that u can gear down while retaining a fair amount of speed that u held in the previous gear, ie to keep the engine in the power band
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Fri, 30 July 2004 13:48
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| TokenBlackGuy wrote on Fri, 30 July 2004 14:41 |
| Shraka wrote on Fri, 30 July 2004 13:58 |
| Intensevil wrote on Fri, 30 July 2004 01:08 |
most fuel efficient way to drive is to shift as early as possible and sit in as high a gear as possible
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*Without labouring or pinging.
I rev match when downshifting all the time. Mainly 'cuz I'm a Takumi wannabe. Heel-toe, heel-toe. Sometimes I have downshift to first, as my car rolls a hell of a lot around corners and it's surprisingly easy to understeer the damned thing if I enter a little too fast. And what with it's total lack of torque what so ever I have to rev to get it moving in the kinda way I want it to. So yeah, it just takes practice to match the box up to the engine between changes, especially when going from second to first.
Oh yeah I drive a 1992 CB Lancer with worn shocks and an old tired bitsamissing engine.
Okay, now start flaming me for driving a shit car like I'm racing. *puts on flame suit*
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Tis true, he dose heel-toe, poor abused cb lancer...
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The only abusing he does of that thing is verbal..
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Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Fri, 30 July 2004 13:56
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How about just protecting the clutch? Anyone checked out the linked I posted? It indicates that engine speed matching should be done all time to prevent clutch wear.
And no, I don't brake all the time to downshift.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Sat, 31 July 2004 02:11
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You are always going to get clutch wear no matter what you do. When you start from a standstill you have to slip it a little bit *hey presto* Clutch Wear!!
Id be more worried about syncros wearing out than a clutch plate.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Sun, 01 August 2004 15:17
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| Shraka wrote on Fri, 30 July 2004 13:58 |
Oh yeah I drive a 1992 CB Lancer with worn shocks and an old tired bitsamissing engine.
Okay, now start flaming me for driving a shit car like I'm racing. *puts on flame suit*
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It's okay, my Corona cops a hiding. Or maybe we both suck.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Mon, 02 August 2004 00:33
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hehe
i am teh suck at gear shifting when it comes to launching in drags
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Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Mon, 02 August 2004 11:20
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i dont know shit when it comes to gearboxes but wouldnt for example: 4th>neutral>rev>3rd be better for your gearbox than staright shifting, syncros and all?
i thought a syncro made the gearbox cog match the engine speed before locking it in, is that right?
cause in that case double clutching should save your syncros?
and yeah the less clutch wear the better? sure its going to slip but why slip it more than you have to?
i confess to double clutching and heel toeing on the street, mainly for practice but if feels heaps smoother than normal shifting! so you must be taking load of somewhere!
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Location:
perth WA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Mon, 02 August 2004 11:32
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Sorry to say this, but if you are that worried about wearing the clutch, go for an auto. or alternatively, you can use the clutch to take off and to stop only(works on a road-ranger) .As Benjamin said, you are always going to get some wear. As long as you dont "ride" the clutch, drive to what feels comfortable.
my 2c
Cheers
Jeff
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Mon, 02 August 2004 13:16
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Ha ha ha. Poor Lancer. Yeah I can't help but heel toe now. It's kinda automatic. I usualy do it as I come into corners just to let it slide into gear nicely, and power around the corner. I drop from cruse in 5th to cornering gear in 2nd or 3rd. If I don't heel toe it's realy jerky getting into gear and just doesn't feel right.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Noob questions: gear shifting
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Mon, 02 August 2004 13:59
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Nothing wrong with a bit of heel-toe gearchanges. Its a bit of fun, and with practice makes the changes just that bit nicer! Everyone on here is a car enthusiest so why not drive with a bit of flair and passion?! You old stodgy dudes should trade your cars in for a cream 80s volvo ith a nice hat in the back window! hahahaha
Good-on-ya "letmedrift" for asking questions, its the only way you'll learn (and with a practice).
PS The car i learnt to drive in didn't have synchro on first and was on the way out in second, so heal toeing (or at least double clutching) was near mandatory, and made me a better driver for it!
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