| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 07:49
|
 |
|
never been sure about power steering, but some people some to think its great other say its junk....whats good and whats bad about it?
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 08:04
|
|
Pros of p/steer
if u run fat tyres, then its good
u can drive like a homie and do 360 turns with a finger only
Pros of no p/steer
if u have flabby triceps, good workout
more feel for the car
girlfriend wont want to drive it as too hard
one less thing to go wrong in an old car
.. thats all i can come up with 4 now
why u ask ?
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 08:04
|
|
it makes parking sooooo much easier, nicer to drive with.
but takumis will say that it dampens the feel of the road, and slows the delivery of precious tofu
|
|
|
Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 08:10
|
|
I learnt to drive with power steering on a 2002 Camry Touring manual and it has no feel. Just twirl and hope. My first car is a Corona Rt142 without power steering and because it is fairly light 1 tonne have no prob even when going slow. Far better feedback and you can judge what is and bad for the car. As for turning circle it is tiny. I live in a small culdesac and can make it round with cars on both sides unlike some people with pulsars that have powersteering and have to do three point turns.
If in doubt dump the throttle and tighten the turning circle even more (just kidding)
|
|
|
Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 08:11
|
|
yeah i read something in the 'car to learn drift' thread about it i think it was a con about it...
and just wondered if everyone on her likes/doesnt like it...
my sister rekens her corona only had about 50% of power coming out of corners because of the power steering
for a young guy with a rough car i dont mind not having it at all it definately feels more real than my mums pajezza
|
|
|
Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 08:16
|
|
| Quote: |
and you can judge what is and bad for the car.
|
good point, too many people are learning on cars with power steering, the amount of people i see turning the wheels of the car without moving in car parks is ridiculous
|
|
|
Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 08:18
|
|
|
How is that bad ???
|
|
|
Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 08:21
|
|
|
putting huge stress on all your steering componenets plus ripping ur tires aross the road cant be good...
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 08:51
|
|
I'm driving a loaner R33 from my mechanic at the moment and the steering is so smooth when i was rolling it out of the servo i pretty much turned onto the wrong side of the road. I find it scarier than my RA40 because it feels like i'm oversteering all the time. That said it's probably just a matter of getting used to it. I think it's like the difference between auto and manual - they both get you there the same speed in the end, but you do need to play the pedal differently.
|
|
|
Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 10:01
|
|
|
a r33 donor car...hmmmm....whos ur mechanic so i can brake my car
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 10:17
|
|
Yeah tell me bout it! I was stoked! But there is a longer story to that - they royally screwed up my head so now they're being nice to me so i'll still come back 
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 10:34
|
|
Interesting thread you started Jesse, very interested to keep hearing peoples opinions on this.
I currently have a non-power rack in my RA28, but about to embark on 'version 2' of my rack n pinion setup and am very tempted to put a power rack in.
I reckon it will lose some feedback, but the advantages I see is I can run shorter steering knuckles, more castor, and wider tyres. Without PS, I reckon the above would make the steering Very heavy.
But I haven't decided yet.. So yeah, keep the ideas coming 
Cheers
Joel
|
|
|
Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 12:37
|
|
In SW20's I'd never want power steering. Engine in the back, and the weight is pretty close to 50-50 sot its not too heavy. Give great feel for the road. I also must say the SW20's turning circle is amazing.
For something more luxobargeish like a lexus or soarer I'd say with a bik 6 cyl over your steering it'd be damn hard without p/s.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Thu, 05 August 2004 23:14
|
|
Everyone complains about power steering not having enough "feel", but this generalisation doesn't always hold true; it depends on the car and how the power assistance has been set up! For example, I've driven my Supra with and without power steering and I can tell you it has just as much feel either way; the only difference is the amount of effort required to turn the wheel (which at parking speeds is quite a lot without P/S). With the P/S working the steering is sharp, responsive, has lots of feedback, and is superior in every way to the fully manual steering in my Celica. In short, I'm a big fan of power assistance, provided it's done correctly!
By contrast, I've driven late-model Camry's and Commodores and the power steering on those cars is a totally different story. Way too much power assistance, next to no feedback, totally dull and lifeless. Of course the designers set it up that way on purpose - your average mum and dad types like super-light steering that requires next to no effort when parking at Woolies. Those sort of people couldn't care less about steering feedback or responsiveness.
So in short, power steering can be good or bad, and manual steering can be good or bad!
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Fri, 06 August 2004 00:27
|
|
Provided there's less than 700kg (or so) over the front wheels, I'm a huge fan of non-power assisted steering. True, there's good and bad "feeling" power steering setups, but none can match the unfiltered flow of data pouring from a well setup unassisted rack. Power-racks with a failed pump don't count b.t.w, as the rack is still damped by the fluid in the hydraulics.
Assuming the front suspension's caster is about right, an unassisted rack will automatically correct oversteer if you simply release the steering wheel. How neat is that!?!?!!!
Another benefit for driftmeisters is the unlimited speed with which the wheel can be ripped from lock to lock. A P/S setup is limited by how fast the pump can force that fluid into the rack.
For the less sporting driver, yes: power steering is grouse, coz it makes the carpark a breeze to negotiate, and filters most small bumps out of the steering wheel's feedback.
For people who are interested however, a "naked" steering rack is pure gold, as it leaves you in no doubt about EXACTLY how the front tyres are interacting with the road.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Fri, 06 August 2004 00:43
|
|
| st184 sillycar wrote on Fri, 06 August 2004 10:27 |
Power-racks with a failed pump don't count b.t.w, as the rack is still damped by the fluid in the hydraulics.
|
My rack had no fluid in it, and no lines attached, so it wasn't damped by anything. I maintain the steering had just as much feel with and without the power assitance working.
| Quote: |
Assuming the front suspension's caster is about right, an unassisted rack will automatically correct oversteer if you simply release the steering wheel. How neat is that!?!?!!!
|
An assisted rack will do exactly the same thing... I used to do this in my Supra all the time when the P/S was working. Once again it depends on how the steering is set up; quite a lot of cars with P/S run little or no caster, hence the self-centering effect won't work.
| Quote: |
Another benefit for driftmeisters is the unlimited speed with which the wheel can be ripped from lock to lock. A P/S setup is limited by how fast the pump can force that fluid into the rack.
|
This is true, but modern engines with a sufficiently large pump have no such problems. It might be a different story if we're talking AE86's with weenie P/S pumps though. 
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Fri, 06 August 2004 00:55
|
|
Progressive power steering was nice on the Supra (post 88 ma70's/71/jza70). It has a solenoid that switches the power assistance off when you are above 60km/h. But them you need the computer to run it with an input from the speedo and output to the solenoid. So you get the assistance when low speed cornering without the floaty/light feel at higher speed.
|
|
|
Location:
Tamworth
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Fri, 06 August 2004 09:39
|
|
power steering is a cu*t in old cars like my crown but can be useful in old heavy cars - although my old ms65 doesnt have pwr steer and never came out with it and it seems eeasy to steer than my ms85..... but power steer is good
brad
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Fri, 06 August 2004 13:36
|
|
Takumi has got power steering,
so it must be good.
|
|
|
Location:
toowoomba qld
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sat, 07 August 2004 01:49
|
|
|
my Holden ute I had (81 WB) did not have power steer, it was pretty light to steer but at parking speed whoa! fuck that was alot harder to park then the Camry, the only thing I dread about power steer is how much will it cost to fix if mine ever decides to die ,I don't think it would be cheap? Never replaced before and hopefully I never will have to either
|
|
|
Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sat, 07 August 2004 02:13
|
|
| jessetamsett wrote on Thu, 05 August 2004 18:21 |
putting huge stress on all your steering componenets plus ripping ur tires aross the road cant be good...
|
Yeah, my driving instructor called it "dry turning", and it can leave bald spots on you tyres and ruin your steering if you do it too much.
But then, most people on the road don't know or care about how their car operates. Even a lot of enthusiasts wouldn't have a clue.
|
|
|
Location:
toowoomba qld
Registered:
March 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sat, 07 August 2004 02:26
|
|
| Shraka wrote on Sat, 07 August 2004 12:13 |
| jessetamsett wrote on Thu, 05 August 2004 18:21 |
putting huge stress on all your steering componenets plus ripping ur tires aross the road cant be good...
|
Yeah, my driving instructor called it "dry turning", and it can leave bald spots on you tyres and ruin your steering if you do it too much.
But then, most people on the road don't know or care about how their car operates. Even a lot of enthusiasts wouldn't have a clue.
|
yeah, thats very true that, people do stuff with out realising what it does to the car.
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sat, 07 August 2004 14:01
|
|
my corolla used to have power steering when it had a 4Ac but i ditched it when going to the GZE. mostly for pipe and mount complexity its was quite nice with the power steering and had very good feedback still but the manual rack now is a struggle sometimes when putting 100HP+ to the wheels torque steer is about as much feedback as you will get and its still controlable
even with a 13 inch steering wheel its not too bad in the parking lot.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sat, 07 August 2004 14:23
|
|
i dont like p/s, tooooooooo lite and i personally prefer the better feel. you can sense whats happening on the road where as p/s just dampens everything and you lose that feel for the road i recon. i have driven so many diffeent cars and will always prefer no p/s.
TURBO RA28: i wouldnt go the p/s mate! dont over modernise the car and kill the essence, but thats my opinion only.
im never gonna p/s the '22 not even for track use either, if you get non p/s set up just right its better than anything. and most of all you never have to worry if it leaks/fails/breaks/seals go/changeing it in an accident etc etc etc
with no p/s have a small accident and spend $20 on 1 tie rod instead of changing the whole thing
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sun, 08 August 2004 01:53
|
|
| STR8 2.8 wrote on Thu, 05 August 2004 18:04 |
it makes parking sooooo much easier, nicer to drive with.
but takumis will say that it dampens the feel of the road, and slows the delivery of precious tofu
|
gold!
|
|
|
Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sun, 08 August 2004 10:09
|
|
the only reason to have a manual rack in this day and age is if you cant afford power steering! even race cars use it unless they are historic or cant change it! to give you an example!if you loose the car you will have more chance of regaining it with power steering. why , it is more precise and works works better with less effort.
mick
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sun, 08 August 2004 10:39
|
|
|
p/s is for pussies
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Sun, 08 August 2004 10:39
|
|
that said... does anyone have a p/s set up for an ra65 celica ? hehehe 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Mon, 09 August 2004 00:18
|
|
Well said.
Les, you have a PM.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Mon, 09 August 2004 00:30
|
|
as stated you can hardly compare power steering of say a 80s supra to a brand new commodore, NEW cars have no feel and extremely light steering cos thats what people want, thats the market.
but power assisted steering is great when it is just what it says, "assisted" My corona is a dream to drive with the p/s still in there after the 1g conversion, and I have since driven a few ra23/28 celicas and cant beleive how heavy the steering is.
I drive a new commodore for work and it is good for a cushy drive but you dont get any feel cos it's not meant to, it's a big taxi not a race car.
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Mon, 09 August 2004 03:29
|
|
So just for informational sake... If you wanted to setup a power steering system and retain a fairly high level of feedback/feel. How would you go about it?
Sounds like you don't use a commodore rack. Or is it more so the size of the pump etc?
Thanks
Joel
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: power steering pro's/con's
|
Mon, 09 August 2004 03:56
|
|
It's mostly in the rack itself, but the length of the steering arms will also have an influence - the shorter the better of course. Other little things can make a difference too, eg the way the rack is mounted to the crossmember (a more solid connection means more accurate steering with sharper feedback), and of course plain old steering geometry (caster, scrub radius etc).
The P/S pump has little to do with it; its job is simply to provide high-pressure hydraulic fluid, and this pressure is regulated by the internal mechanisms of the steering rack which I won't even pretend to understand.
|
|
|
