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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
April 2004
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 These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 00:29
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Sorry if this has been covered before guys but i was just wondering what you thought about it? I am completely against it, its stupid!
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 00:44
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Search and yee shall find 
I saw a 50year old construction bloke on his red P's...lol wont be allowed out after 10pm 
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Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 01:08
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Here's my thoughts on this:
This is just another stupid government idea to hide the fact that they don't want to spend money on proper driving training ie. defensive driving courses etc for learners, because it would cost a lot more to implement and run.
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 02:41
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my thoughts anyone over 18 is considered as an adult.... how can they put a curfue (spelling ?) on the adults... i mean clubs and pubs dont close till 4 in the morning etc..
Also what if the only person that can drive is a P plater as the rest are drunk the resposanble thing is to let the p plater drive... but yet they want to book people for this under the age of 21????
this contradicts everything they advertise / teach. I really think they need to sit down an review this.
I mean it dosnt effect me but i still think its a very stupid idea.
my 2 c
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 06:10
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its just one of those things with statistics its a proven fact with young blokes. im for it until there is a big change in the licence testing and penalties for p platers.
when they come in to affect the penalties for speeding will be
15 km\h lose licence for 6 months
over 15km\h 12 months
i get tired of dip stick young block and dont get me wrong there are a few that drive much much better than the older people about, that tail gate and try and stay with me as im clipping along. the reason being if i have to brake in a hurry they are history and i have to drive for them aswell as my self. it takes many many years to get to a level where you can look ahead and know what a car does. its hard for 30-50 year old to do it so there isnt a chance in hell a p plater under 256 is going to have the miles under there belts to do it! how many people under 20 have won a supercar round? or F1 or taken the space shuttle up or come up with a cure for anything.
takes time to learn and p platers{not all) are making it harder and harder for others to have aftermarket cars because they run around with body kits and sticker etc like a rally or circuit car does so i get pulled over by the cops because they think its a p pltater or a young hoon{really an older hoon). p platers drive me nuts everyday of the week! i drive 35okm round trip to and from work through syadney traffic and the old women or men dont worry me its the p plater that get my attention.
mick
p.s it woudnt have been bought up if it wasnt for p platers killing themselves and other people.
if your a p plater think of how many freinds you have known to die driving and ill tell you i have seen 12 of my freinds die 2 being p platers, 8 killed by p platers and 2 dickhead mates that got pissed.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 06:45
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Sure, this is the CHEAP option for the govt, but penalising drivers for being young and dumb is probably not the best approach. More fines won't decrease immaturity, it will just supress it. Symptomatic approach going on here. The root cause remains.
I think some worthwhile, subsidised (sp) driver training would go much further to teaching youngn's the limits of their cars, and their environments.
This way we get a proper respect for what goes on, instead of blithely thinking we are invincible until the inevitable happens.
Then, peanlise by all means, but I feel as it stands, young people's ignorance and lack of experience = money for the government these days. (and crashes)
If we can remove the left hand side ot the equasion, then I think our roads would be safer, and happier.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 07:54
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personally i think it is a good idea and should have been done a long time ago. four of my best friends would still be alive if these rules had been introduced 3 years ago. when someone u knows dies in a crash at a stupidly young age you would agree with the new rules. it doesnt matter if they make getting your licence harder when your friends say faster u go faster. i also had my pride an joy vh brock commodore written off by a p plater who hit me when running a red light at about 100ks , the wanker still owes me $4000 and like im gonna get it now. get over it after 10pm all you would be doing is cruzing anyway, now you have more time to smoke drugs and get paraletic .
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Location:
The Eastwood MASSIVE !
Registered:
May 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 11:58
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Well i'm just about to get off my Green P's and i look back now when i was on my red's two years ago and i wonder what the hell i was up to, i had the driving skills due to the advance driving courses and rally courses i had done but i didn't have the common sense of thinking about "what if a car came around the corner in the other direction"
i think the RTA should take the $32 fee's for booking l's,p's tests and the $27 road rules book costs and a little government funding and force young drivers to do an advanced driving course,
because the problem with getting your license is all you need to be able to do is check your mirror's and reverse park.
nothing which will help you when your about to have an accident, probably 80% of people out on the road would have no idea how to brake effectivly in an emergency or in mid corner on a wet surface. they should put more effort into making you drivers learn car control skills rather then making them go to bed early.
and out of all the near misses i had was during the day not at night.
i've done many driving courses and in 3 years done over 120,000km driving around sydney,melbourne and hobart so i'm confident i can save myself and car when the time counts,
but i've been in the car with a few people which has scared me when they have locked wheels up on corners, and so forth
worst time was when i was in the front passenger seat going into a corner and the car started to get some slight understeer so they wound the steering wheel to full left lock then once the front end got some grip all i could see was myself launching towards to guard rail.
simply because the driver had not had any lesson's on car control.
if everyone did an advanced driving course i bet you would see a huge drop in car accidents. i'll bet my life on it,
and i can't see anyone complaining about having to do an advanced driving course, can you?
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Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 12:07
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i have to agree with some of the other people, saying that it is a shit idea. if p platers had more driving experience, and some common sense, there would be a huge reduction in crashes.. ( and yes, i am a p plater ).
i am by no means a superb driver, but i have learnt car control through paddock driving. i have learnt defenseive driving ( to a certain extent ) but also, i have no misconceptions (sp) about my driving ability ( or lack there of ). that said, i dont drive hard on public roads most of the time, and when i do, i work my way up to it, with only myself in the car, on roads that i know very well, in remoter areas. im not saying that this is a perfect scenario, but at least im not like the wankers that think they are mark skaiff with their fully sikd up VL commodore ( just a generalisation from my town, no disrespect ), flogging it around town when kids are kicking balls and stuff in streets, when they have had their lisence for 3 days. that is plain stupid and fu*king dangerous, no 2 ways about it.
on top of this, most of my friends are of the same mind, taking it to remote areas, or the local track for fun.
GIN51E has made the point, that it is tooo easy to get your lisence. i know people that have never driven in the rain, and they will be getting their p's in a months time.
there are plenty of people that dont know shit about car control, or emergancy situations. i know some, but i am taking the hour drive to deca to do some extra courses in the hols when i have some spare time, as i believe we all should have too.
also, i, and plenty of other people have jobs outside of school on weekends etc, where we have to drive before 5 or 6 am, or dont finish untill after like 2 or 3 in the morn. how are we suppose to get home, or to work, rely on working parents??? i dont think so.
this is just another band aid approach for a problem that needs to be dealt with properly.
thanks for reading the essay people, but hopefully, it might just provide some insight, or invoke some kind of response.
cheers, lee.
[Updated on: Wed, 11 August 2004 12:12]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 12:35
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what everyone has to remember is when you first get your license there is no rules that are going to stop you from being an idiot and thinking your the worlds best driver, the only way you learn is when you have your first close call,
thats where advanced driving courses help as they show you how easy it is for your car to loose control.
one thing i'm all for though is have a power to weight ratio limit for red p's then make it a little higher for green's
red's should be say 12Kg/Kw
and maybe green's 10kg/Kw
except that doesn't stop people from doing mods to their car
and its also pointless as you don't need a fast car to drive fast,
The only way i can see the problem getting any better is by having advanced driving lesson's
and maybe they can't take any passangers under the age of 25 in at least the first month they have their license,
as i know when i first got my license the first stupid thing i did was after i picked up my mates from school.
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 22:05
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to say im impressed is an understatment!i thought i would get the flaming of my life for the above !just goes to show there is some very smart young blokes about!well done toymoders! some very very good suggestions and great conversation on the subject!
mick
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 11 August 2004 23:19
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Here's some more wood for the fire.
It's been proven time and again that the most dangerous people on the road are the elderly.
And what is being done about them?
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 12 August 2004 00:49
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hahahaha how about a car crusher in every bowling club carpark ,with a sign that says free car wash if you park here. also it should be part of the semi-trailer licence that if you dont take out atleast one old person driving every day, that you loose points of your licence.lmao
mick
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Location:
Inside a giant turbo (syd...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 12 August 2004 05:16
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stuff young people and ederly.... what about Cabs and Buses.. I couldnt count the number of times a bus has just decided to change lanes INTO ME, or cabies have cut me off.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
toowoomba qld
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 12 August 2004 05:37
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It doesn't worry me as I'm on me opens but I do think that P platers should be restricted to driving slower cars so that they can learn more about car control instead of being behind the wheel of an 260kw car and seeing how fast it goes!
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Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 12 August 2004 08:42
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i dont know about NSW and QLD, but in VIC, we are only allowed to have 125KW per tonne and 3.5 L per tonne while on our p's...
and thats for the 3 years...
however, it is randomly enforced, and it can be got around....
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Location:
toowoomba qld
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 12 August 2004 08:53
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here, theres nothing stopping someone on there P's from driving a car something with 250kw or more except maybe a tree (being serious here) I think some people who have just got there licences are very keen to push there limits straight away, thus adding to the road toll. I'm not saying P platers are bad drivers. All I am trying to say is let them get experiences from slower cars before they go ape shit in a HSV or something. let them know the road first. As for the elderly, I think anyone over the age of 60 should be made to do a driving course of some discription every 2 years to decide if they should be still be on the road or not, as there are some pretty freaky old drivers out there as well. 
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Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 12 August 2004 09:09
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I think what GIN51E said about the power to weight ratio is a good idea. And if your pulled over and there are suspicions as to if your car is under or over the limit then cheap/subsidized testing should be available.
And bloody cab drivers we were going home down the southern outlet and as we round a corner the driver brakes pretty hard so while i was thrown forward i look at the speedo the needle was going down PAST 150kms. he must have been going pretty quick the only reason he slowed down was that there was cars in front doing the speed limit of 100.
Also i work in a restaurant so this rule would make my life very VERY hard
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 12 August 2004 15:22
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It's soooooo impractical. Who will fill these tight ass low pay positions that these young people can no longer fill as they can't transport themselves to and from work?
And when are the P plater’s going to learn to drive at night? They are adults, they should be treated as such.
To solve the problem, I think we in Victoria should have Red and Green Ps as follows:
Min 15 years old, Yellow Ls. Like current L plates. You should have to be on your Ls for at least 1 year before going for your red Ps. During this time you should have to do at least 10 hours of professional training, and a defensive driving course. You should also have to have a licensed driver with you at all times.
Min 17 years old, Red Ps that last for 1 year. They should be limited to driving between 6am and 9pm, unless accompanied by a fully licensed driver. They should only be able to take 1 passenger unless they are with a licensed driver. You should get 4 points on your Red Ps.
Min 18 years old, you can go for your Green Ps that last for 2 years. You can drive with whomever you like and stay out as late as you like. You only get 6 points.
Min 20 years old, you can go for your full license (must do another driving test). Lasts 5 years before you have to renew and do another written test. If you fail the written test you are put back on green Ps.
I also think not being allowed to take any of your tests in an automatic would help. People on their Red Ps shouldn’t be allowed to drive Autos either.
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Fri, 13 August 2004 07:36
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In regards to the power restrictions...I heard from a few people today that if you already have a 20000rwkw car you can still drive it. Makes sense, since not everyone can afford to buy/convert to a less powerful car...and the gov wont pay for it 
Better get a beast quickly guys 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Fri, 13 August 2004 09:08
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Ok well i got my full license yesterday so i can now say what i want about P platers
but people do have to remember that P platers arn't worse drivers they just don't have the maturity level and are willing to take more risks without thinking of the consequences.
and before i even got my p's my parents had already booked me in to do an advanced driving course, and i reckon it has saved my ass a few times.
we understand that maybe the government "can't" afford to pay for everyone to do advanced driving courses but they should make a contribution and the driver has to pay the rest. which i think is fair seeing as though you will get something out of it and you will even enjoy it.
and don't say the governement doesn't want to do it because the smash repair industry will go down the shitter, thats bullshit.
as the crashes we are trying to and will reduce with advanced driver training courses are the ones where someone is killed and 9 out of 10 times someone is killed in a car crash the car is written off so the smash repair place gets nothing out of it.
there will always be rear enders and fender benders no matter what, thats a part of human error in traffic, we are talking about teaching people the abbility to stay on the road and not wrap themself around a pole/tree ect. so the motor trade repair industry will stay as strong as ever,
even if the rule isn't compulsary who gives a shit, if you haven't done an advance driving course then why don't you? its up to you, they don't just teach you how to keep yourself on the road but they also teach you how to avoid other people from hitting you.
we are all against smoking and drugs ect because they kill you, we are willing to spend hundreds on trying to loose weight to live longer and look better yet we are pre paired to spend money on advance driving lesson's even though driving a car or being in one has the most risk of injury and death then anything else we will do.
so how about everyone gets their priority's worked out before you go out and spend $200 on a night at the club , or buy a brand new phone when there was nothing wrong with the old one.
i know what i'm saying is going to mean jack shit to everyone and isn't going to make one little difference but what i saw this morning on the way to work just pissed me off.
i got off the freeway at 7am at gosford to find cop cars everywhere and the road blocked because a car probably at 80km/h if not more has gone through a red light and just clipped the front of a big semi which was turing at the set of lights which had launched the car 15m down the road and then backwards into a traffic light pole and lets put it this way, they had sheets laying over the 2 people that were in the destroyed car.
and why did it happen? well yes the car driver fucked up by not seeing the red light and going through but there was some nice skid marks there, meaning the driver hadn't learn how to brake in an emergency resulting in them just clipping the front of the semi and to their death, now if they did an advanced driving course then i reckon there is very good ods they would be just fine right now sitting at home "probably trying to get the shit out of their pants" but none the less they would be living.
so you owe it to yourself to do an advanced driving course no matter what age you are.
i bet one day in your life that you will make your money back from the advanced driving course by using the skills you learn to avoid and accident.
anyway i'll shut up now, but thats my 2cents
might hit the RSL now and celebrate that i'm in the Subaru RS rally team service crew for the ARC NSW round at the end of this month wooooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooo
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Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Fri, 13 August 2004 10:39
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GIN51E u r sooooooo right .
At the very least do a defensive driving course to lowwer ur insurance premium. I dunno if they still do but AAMI used 2 give u a free Defensive drving course if ur car was insured in ur own name and ur parents r insured with AAMI.
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Location:
NSW Engadine
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 18 August 2004 06:07
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The passenger idea wouldn't be too bad.. but the curfew... if anyone is desperate to drive like an idiot they'll just do it in daytime...
The stupid idea is that instead of solving the problem they suppress it...
NZ have lowered P plate road tolls around 40% but remember 40% of the day they can't drive anyway...
Im ok with the 1 passenger limit... but not the time... what about having a life outside of going to and from tafe and school... how often do parties end before 9pm?
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW, Austra...
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 18 August 2004 08:09
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I think passenger limits are stupid aswell, instead of having one idiot on the roads, you now have 5.
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Wed, 18 August 2004 11:48
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| 79rollaboy wrote on Wed, 18 August 2004 16:07 |
Im ok with the 1 passenger limit... but not the time... what about having a life outside of going to and from tafe and school... how often do parties end before 9pm?
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I reckon they assume out bed time is like 8:30 freakin wankers 
| Camry_omega wrote on Wed, 18 August 2004 18:09 |
I think passenger limits are stupid aswell, instead of having one idiot on the roads, you now have 5
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That true...coz i sometimes act as a designated driver...as much as it sucks it prevents my mates from doing stupid shit like driving after a night out. And theres no chance in hell im going back to the party to pick up everyone individually 
They're trying to screw over people trying to do the right thing as well
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Location:
toowoomba qld
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 19 August 2004 06:44
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| Camry_omega wrote on Wed, 18 August 2004 18:09 |
I think passenger limits are stupid aswell, instead of having one idiot on the roads, you now have 5.
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very true. most of the people I have as passengers in my car are idiots when they drive.
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Thu, 19 August 2004 12:21
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Hi,
| 79rollaboy wrote on Wed, 18 August 2004 16:07 |
NZ have lowered P plate road tolls around 40% but remember 40% of the day they can't drive anyway...
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And has NZ (my favourite 3rd world country) lowered these P-platers license and insurance cost by 40% also? Considering they've effectively reduced your road time by 40%, I'd want a similar reduction in costs. If not, then it's just another money grabbing exercise. At least provide advanced driving courses for free, if you're not going to reduce their costs.
I think the power/weight ratio limitation is a good idea - even though a cretin in a small car can still kill and cause major damage.
I'd prefer large 4WD vehicles to be banned from city streets. I phucking hate them! I'm starting to hate those people-mover shitheaps too.
See the angst you've started in me!!!!!  
Remember this, boys and girls, you are old enough to vote - so, if this gets passed, vote the phuckers out.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Fri, 20 August 2004 02:32
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Hi,
I think curfews are a short sighted, and impractical idea. I believe limiting the amount of people in the car to one is a great idea.
Most of the accidents my friends had occurred when there was a full car load of 18 year old guys.
Power restrictions would be a very difficult thing to police. Who would the onus of proof be on to prove that your car is legal. I bet the police would not be happy if they had to weigh your car, and dyno it. How would this system work? Do they have to prove that your car was running more boost, hotter cams, stroker crank..etc. Power-to-weight charts given to police would only work if the car violated the rules to start with.
In an ideal world we would have a learner driver set-up similar to the Germans. Lots of driver courses, combined with Autobahn/high speed driving. The high speed driving would be very beneficial, as we all wanted to see how fast our cars went when we first got our license. Removing the "novelty" of high speed driving might be a good idea?
Set the learner license course to include things like towing a trailer, changing a tyre, VERY simple mechanics of a car. Explain to people that towing a 20 foot boat with a Datsun 1200 with standard brakes is not a smart move IE:- Massive increase in stopping distances, the car is overloaded, the brakes are going to overheat, the car is not rated for this.
There are lots of people out there with little/no commonsense. A license testing procedure should be designed to either "enlighten" them, or fail them. Driver testing every five years would be a good idea???
My 2 bob.
Justin
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Mon, 23 August 2004 06:24
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hey people. I think some good points have been raised here. I am on my Red P's and I have lost my licence for 3 months for crossing double white lines on a public holdiday. I wasn't speeding or doing anything stupid it was just a lapse in concentration. I turned from a service station and crossed the double white lines. Cops saw me and booked me on neg. driving. I did not speed, did not smoke the tyres, It was nothing life threatening or dangerous to anyone even myself. They gave me a $200 fine and 3 months suspension. They told me it was dangerous!!!! How the hell is it????
I think this is a damn harsh lesson to be learnt!! I rarely ever exceed the speed limit on normal roads and i try to be a safe driver. The ones who ruin it for the rest of us and why i got booked so harshly is the ones who take their parents commodores or falcons out at night with only a few hours of experience in the car. They try and test their limits before they even know the car or what it is capable of. Something unexpected happens and they don't know what to do. Slam on the brakes or try and swurve and its all over. I think certain restrictions should be imposed on weight to power ratio's. But a curfue is rediculous. I sometimes work till 1 in the morning. How the hell am i meant to get home if i can't drive???
I can partly understand a limit on number of passengers(to an extent) but like you have said what if you are the designated driver. Your gonna have to take a sh## load of trips just to get people home.
I think the gov't has to have a sit down and definately reconsider these rules. Yes it may cut down p plater accident, but it may not. It may increase the amount of drunk drivers because they couldn't get a lift home so they decided to drive. Or a sh## load of fines are gonna be given out and noone is gonna pay them!!!
Thats my two sense,
Thanks for your time.
Michael
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Location:
wangaratta
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: These stupid P plater rules they wanna bring in
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Mon, 23 August 2004 07:24
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i agree, there have been some really good points raised here...
why dont we get some pollies to have a gander at some of these suggestions and see what some real world people think???
 fat chance of that.....
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