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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Tue, 17 August 2004 04:25
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Hi,
If I wanted to increase the boost on a gen2 3sgte, how would you go about it?
If I used a manual boost controller, should I also use a fuel cut defender?
If I was shooting for 12-13psi, do I need bigger injectors, and if so, will supra 550's do the trick?
If I go bigger injectors, do I need to have my ecu remappped to deal with it? If I do get it remapped, do I still need the FCD?
How much extra boost can you get out of a standard 3sgte-ct26 setup before things get scary or performance goes backwards?
Cheers,
Dave
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Tue, 17 August 2004 05:54
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Dave, the 3s tend to have boost cut around 12 pound yeah?
best thing to do is to get a fcd wack it on then book it in for a dyno session where u can watch the fuel ratios and adjust it to suit
bigger injectors on a standard computer aint a good idea, as they just pump more fuel in all the time, which is not what you want
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Tue, 17 August 2004 06:22
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Cheers, so if I'm not aiming for silly boost I'll be alright with just the MBC and FCD? 
Not sure when the fuel cut is, still trying to collect everything I need before I stuff the 3sgte in.
btw, I was going to give you a call, I sourced an AFM so you can quit searching day and night 
Quick question while we're sort of on topic, on my travels I have also picked up a JDM ECU. Would it have the same boost cut as the Aussie one?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Tue, 17 August 2004 10:01
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I believe gen2 injectors are cool for upto about the 17psi mark, over that you need to go bigger, like I think thats on there limits or very close to.
yeah fuel cut is about the 12-13psi, it suppose to be 12 but I think there is a small variance over so likely 13.
Don't quote me on this but i think the jdm ecu fuel cut is the same, best place may be to try for that is yahoo groups "GT4" or "MR2" rings. If you really wanted the best mapping and higher fuel cut try and source a GrpA ecu, I think the loom plugs are a bit different, but it has a fuel cut at 17psi.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Tue, 17 August 2004 10:20
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jap spec is slightly more aggressive, we had noticable differences
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Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Tue, 17 August 2004 10:50
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just put in a MBC and turn it up. you should be able to get 12-possibly 14psi, without hitting fuel cut.if it hits fuel cut, then put a FCD in and tune it.
i would just try the MBC first, then go from there.thats what i'm going to do 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Tue, 17 August 2004 14:26
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ohh yeah not doubt the jdm ecu would be mapped a bit more aggressivly, but it would still have the same boost cut level.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Tue, 17 August 2004 23:07
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Thanks guys!!! very much appreciated.
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Wed, 18 August 2004 00:18
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Before you put in the boost controller make sure you remove the standard TVSV boost control.
This is a bleed system that limits the car to 7PSI or less when cold and in the lower gears and then bleeds off air to increase the boost when the engine is warm and in higher gears. The tvsv is connected to a second port on the wastegate actuator. The line for this goes around the back of the engine to a soleboid mounted on the intake manifold. If you don't disable or remove the TVSV system it is really hard to get accurate control of the boost, you've got one bleed controlled by the standard computer and one you're setting.
Take a look around in the SW20 part of http://www.mr2oc.com to get an idea of what kind of mods are possible on the standard injectors.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Wed, 18 August 2004 00:30
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Cheers Josh,
I keep an eye on the mk1.5 forum and have always been on the mailing list, but always seem to forget to look at the main message board for tech advice. I suppose anything we do has normally done a thousand times over by the americans (due to population).
How's your little beast going anyways? I'll hopefully be joining you in the mk1.5 club in the not too distant future. Got my 185 shafts yesterday (big thanks acesquall) so I'm nearly done collecting everything before I start. Getting excited *grin*
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Wed, 18 August 2004 03:09
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Disabling the T-VSV limits the protection your engine has in poor fuel and cold conditions. That is why it is there, to limit boost until conditions improve, that is - knocking stops, engine gets to temp etc etc.
Be mindful of this before you get rid of any engine control system.
Second point is that your ECU will not be mapped beyond fuel cut, so you will be getting fully rich conditions above and beyond 12-13psi.
A Group A ECU is mapped to 17 psi and recently there was one for sale on this forum. And the price was bloody good as well.
Mitch.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Wed, 18 August 2004 03:33
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That sounds like it makes a fair bit of sense.
I think Matt in Canberra is the one who has one for $350.
From what I had read around the traps, you wouldn't want to push a stock ct26 past about 15psi anyways, and if I did start wanting to go further/harder, I 'd probably want to high flow the ct26 or go a ct20b or something. Then I suppose I'd be looking at above the 17psi mark and would negate the Group A one anyways (does'nt it still have the 180km/hr limit on it?) and have to look in to remapping, piggy back or complete aftermarket system.
Think I'll just stick with the 2 ecu's I have already
btw, are you telling me that if I disable the TVSV I have no protection against knocks?
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Wed, 18 August 2004 04:01
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Best price I have seen for this rare ECU in a long time.
And there is nothing is this for me, I saw Matt's post and I bought some brake gear from him, and that is all, I don't know him from a soap of bar ! 
Anyway - lets clear up a fallacy or three, the stock (non-ceramic wheel CT26) can produce up to 22psi, with no problem whatsover. What restricts it practically to about 15psi or so is the physical design, size and structure of the 3S-GTE engine as an air pump. It has to get the exhaust gases out past valves, down a manifold and across the turbine wheel.
And yes AFAIK, JDM ecu's are limited to 180km/h.
No, the ecu will still retard ignition at the onset of knocking, you just lose the safety feature of low boost and corresponding mapping. Rather have knock at 7psi than 17psi.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Wed, 18 August 2004 04:14
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I thought the only steel wheeled ct26 was the Group A !?!?
Anyways, that's besides the point, I still can't get past 15psi without major work (head work in this case).
Which leads me to think of sticking with the 12-13psi that I initially stated I was shooting for. Hell, it's going in to an aw11 to be my daily driver, if it doesn't force a smile on my face even in stock form, then I think I have serious issues.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Wed, 18 August 2004 07:00
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| davedave wrote on Wed, 18 August 2004 14:14 |
if it doesn't force a smile on my face even in stock form, then I think I have serious issues.
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Could not have said it better myself - you should make this your signature !
Cheers,
Mitch.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Wed, 18 August 2004 07:57
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ive got it on good knowelege that the AUSTRALIAN spec Gt4's got the same turbo's ( steel ) as the group a's
when i eventually upgrade iill try to make sure i clarify this
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Sun, 19 September 2004 06:05
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Hey, i get 11 psi on my car and apparently it doesn't have a bleed valve or anything. Is this normal? If i try to turn up the boost a little will i be getting fuel cut issues? I wouldn't mind getting a bleed valve and a nice front mount, but it seems like i might have to get even more done if i want some serious power.
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Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Increasing boost on a 3sgte
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Sun, 19 September 2004 14:38
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hey i've got a jdm 3sgte and ecu in my st162 and i had it up to 200kph!aren't they limited to 180kph 
Also to contribute to the discussion, i just put a cheap gfb MBC in and disabled the t-vsv and turned it up to 10psi. driving during the day it is fine, but at night i can't floor it AT ALL.if i do, it will hit fuelcut (boost spike?)9 times outta 10. and yes i know i gotta get an fcd in there.i've made an fcd but am having troubles tuning it in. fuel cuts at 4.4v and i want to turn it up to about 4.7v. but when testing it with a multimeter,when i installed the fcd last time i could only get the meter up to 2.24v, and the pot was turned all the way up :?any ideas??
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
September 2004
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