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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:00
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I'nm trying to set base advance without a timing light, multimeter or test lamp.
I'm trying to get a spark to bridge between the plug lead and chassis (ground) when i turn the engine over.
When I turn the engine over with the starter motor it works.
But when I turn the motor over by hand to pinpoint the spark advance I can't get a spark.
Why?
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Location:
Sydney / NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:20
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unless you have 12 volts running through your body you will never get a spark!  its impossible to do what you are trying to do. my advice is to leave it to someone who knows what they are doing, it might become less expensive in the long run
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:26
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I know what I'm doing for fuck sake. I just have no tools. It's not impossible because it sparks to ground when cranking on the starter motor but not when switched on and cranked over by hand. What I want to know is why, not negativist bullshit? How about lending me a timing light then if you're so helpful??
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Location:
Sydney / NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:30
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so much anger....dont get cranky (pardon the pun). my mate has my timing light, ill see if i can get it for ya. lmao at angry response , "just kidding" 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:34
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Man I'm bleeding from three knuckles from skinning my fingers on the radiator. I'm dirty and cold (it's raining here and about <10deg (C not BTDC). I'm sopping wet and can't feel my fingers. I've got no light, I'm using the parking lamp assembly (removed from the front) to see what I'm doing.
So why won't it spark?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:35
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RE: Timing light: You're in Sydney, I am not. I'm just to skint to go buy one because I'm a university student.
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Location:
Sydney / NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:41
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i am sure someone in Melbourne has a timing light and some band aids to give a guy in trouble a hand!!!!!!!!!!!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 10:48
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...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Melbourne Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 11:33
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how desperate are u? and where abouts are u located? i can lend u my timing light...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 13:14
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Thanks, but it's okay. I'll just buy a lamp tomorrow and eat it if I run out of food before next pay check...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 13:15
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doesnt the car need to be in "IGN"?
if your cranking by hand when its off, the engine wont have volts to produce spark right??
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Location:
Somewhere on a dirt bowl ...
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 14:06
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| SeptemberSquallIndustries wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 23:14 |
Thanks, but it's okay. I'll just buy a lamp tomorrow and eat it if I run out of food before next pay check...
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Boiling the timing light will soften it so that it will be nice and chewy. Throw in an old boot to give it some taste.
But seriously like ae86drift said, to produce the spark the ignition needs to be on.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 14:16
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It is on.
You mean it needs to be on with the car running *OR* the key needs to be in "Start"?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 15:24
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I wouldnt be turning a motor by hand with the key on
What happens if it starts?
I dont think grazed knuckles would be your problem anymore.
And besides the, I would think that by turning it by hand you would be turning it fast enough for the ignition module/points to spark.
Why don't you just start the car, and do the timing by ear?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 15:28
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Trust me, it won't 'just start'.
If I could get it to idle/run I'd be able to adjust timing by ear. I'm only talking a very coarse base timing set to get it in the ballpark so it'll run.
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And besides the, I would think that by turning it by hand you would be turning it fast enough for the ignition module/points to spark.
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Say again?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Melbourne Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Tue, 14 September 2004 22:58
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mate, you sound like ur up shit creek, let me help u and give u a paddle 
nah seriously, where abouts are u located, if its close enough i'll drop by and give u a hand, and bring the timing light.
Cheers
Huy
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 00:28
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| SeptemberSquallIndustries wrote on Tue, 14 September 2004 23:28 |
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And besides the, I would think that by turning it by hand you would be turning it fast enough for the ignition module/points to spark.
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Say again?
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You still haven't told us what motor it is, so I don't know if its points or hall effect.
But I would have presume that the motor would need to be doing at least 20-50 rpm for either the points to open fast enough to cause a spark, or for the metal disc to cause a large enough volatge for the ignition module to see it, and thus generate a spark.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 02:57
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[quote title=CrUZsida wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 10:28]
What that thing cost?
More than You can afford Pal, Lexus, raawwwarr [quote]
bwwwahahahahahahaha. i love it.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 03:37
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2T-G with electronic ignition.
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 13:15
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Not sure about your motor, but i know some motors actually require that the wire that goes to the solonoid on the starter be hooked up to the ecu, your car may employ a simmilar device or work on a simmilar principle.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 13:30
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| BradW wrote on Wed, 15 September 2004 22:00 |
Hey, if I have read wrong and you have already tried this then I appologise.
It sounds like you are trying to set the base timing so as to get the engine to start. Remove No 1 spark plug and turn engine until piston is at tdc for No 1 cyl. Do this by lining up the timing mark on the crank. Make sure it is on compression stroke (ie all valves closed on no 1). Now remove dizzy cap and make sure rotor is pointing to No 1 lead. If it doesn't, remove dizzy and refit in correct position.
Now you may need a hand for the next step. Refit spark plug, crank the engine and slowly rotate the dizzy. The engine should at least try to kick. If it doesn't try to fire it may be a tooth out on the dizzy.
Make sure you are on compression stroke when you check the rotor position and line up the timing mark on the crank.
If you just line up the timing mark without checking the valves are closed it is posible to put the dizzy in 180 deg out.
Good luck
Brad
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Thanks for your constructive input. The car starts with some persuasion but is backfiring almost constantly through all four carburettor throats (currently open).
I'm baffled as to why this would be, as it was running fine when garaged six months ago. Reset idle jets to 1.5 turns from closed. Can't get it to idle to vacuum balance it but that would have no bearing on this I'd think.
Wanted to check base timing to be sure it wasn't stupidly advanced and igniting while the inlet valve was open in the early part of the compression stroke. but it doesn't backfire always, just sometimes.
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Location:
tallahassee FL usOFa
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 14:53
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those electronic things don't like to work at slow speeds.
i've never played with their "air gap" to see how much difference it makes.
i'd just mark or remember its current location, and try it advanced & retarded.
i hate timing lights!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 15:01
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i hate timing lights!
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Why?
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Location:
Finland
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 17:06
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i've never played with their "air gap" to see how much difference it makes.
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I have. It does.
I hate fighting with ignition systems. What could be more frustrating than noticing after two days of swearing that your dizzy is out by 180degrees...
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Location:
Menai area of Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Wed, 15 September 2004 23:08
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If you are backfiring between all four cylinders, it sounds like your distributor is 180 dgrees out. Check that at top dead centre the rotor is pointing to No.1 culinder. If it is, it's probably TDC on the exhaust stroke. Pull the dizzy out, rotate the rotor button and shaft 180 dgrees and replace the dizzy. Alternatively, pull out the dizzy, rotate the engine until the timing mark comes around the pulley again and replace the dizzy without rotating the rotor button - does the same thing.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Why is this not working? (Setting base ign. advance)
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Thu, 16 September 2004 05:47
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It can't be 180 out as it wasn't last time I drove it (6 months ago) and the distributor or leads haven't been changed.
Couldn't check the base timing by grounding #1 to chassis so I borrowed a timing light today. Was running at about 35 degrees BTDC at idle. Fixed that, dialed in the carburettors, now runs well enough to get to the tune shop.
Thanks all for your input.
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