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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Sun, 26 September 2004 23:48
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Well courtesy of some tard monkey breaking into my car, i now have a choice of a new ECU.
Looking at the lower end models, and sofar have narrowed it down to a choice of four.
Wolf V4
Haltech *6 series
Microtech LTX8
and EMS
Im hazy on the Haltechs and EMS's, but i gather all of those are under the $1400ish mark.
It needs to be able to control GZE injectors quite precisely, as at idle the quad throttles really dont use much fuel, but high up in the power band they really suck it down. Its to be used as a track car, so ease of adjustability is quite nice.
What do people think?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 00:15
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Thanks EJ. In my pissedoffedness i didnt 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 00:30
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your soul is mine 
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 02:01
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| takai wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 09:48 |
Well courtesy of some tard monkey breaking into my car, i now have a choice of a new ECU.
Looking at the lower end models, and sofar have narrowed it down to a choice of four.
Wolf V4
Haltech *6 series
Microtech LTX8
and EMS
Im hazy on the Haltechs and EMS's, but i gather all of those are under the $1400ish mark.
It needs to be able to control GZE injectors quite precisely, as at idle the quad throttles really dont use much fuel, but high up in the power band they really suck it down. Its to be used as a track car, so ease of adjustability is quite nice.
What do people think?
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i have done heaps of quad throttle 4cyls with microtech LT8 or LTx8, they have no problems controlling large injectors, they also have the advantage of being able to be mapped in TPS for off boost then map when it comes on boost if you ever decieded to turbo the car,
i have a toyota starlet i do a lot of work on running 745cc per cylinder of injector and it still idles great, it makes 271hp at the wheels on 21psi boost
Dale
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 04:37
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I run A cheap ass EMS stinger with My quads and its fine
My question is why do you need to run 4AGZE injectors,
I run my 4AGE with 20V throttles and 304 Deg cams with only the 250cc 4AGE injectors and they run fine, but hay if you got them run them, or your turboing the thing but thats a different story.
Cheers
Ben.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 04:57
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Ben - That's odd - Marks's car ran out of injectors on the standard units....
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 05:02
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Wasnt that a fuel Filter blokage he eventually tracked it down to ??? cant remember too long ago.
Ben.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 05:40
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As far as my calculations went i would need the GZE injectors. I have both the 100kw and GZE injectors so i can play
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:07
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there are issues with microtechs and fuel economy with 20v's/quads to air
but it will WORK. 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:12
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| ae86drift wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 14:07 |
there are issues with microtechs and fuel economy with 20v's/quads to air
but it will WORK.
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The only issue with the current Microtech's and fuel economy is the ability of your tuner.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:17
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The extrapolation on them is very good, tuning points aren't the be all and end all of ECU's. A good tuner is the key to any aftermarket ECU, ask Dale about his bloody rotary and see if you still think they have bad fuel economy.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:19
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| ae86drift wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 16:13 |
or your available tuning points
on:
lt
ltx
ltx8
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They work ok, but certainly feels flat going from light throttle/low revs to full throttle. Tends to bog down out of corners.
I heard that Motec M4's can be had for $1,800 now.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:24
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| AE86slut wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 14:19 |
They work ok, but certainly feels flat going from light throttle/low revs to full throttle. Tends to bog down out of corners.
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How much time was spent on fixing this though?
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:33
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 16:24 |
| AE86slut wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 14:19 |
They work ok, but certainly feels flat going from light throttle/low revs to full throttle. Tends to bog down out of corners.
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How much time was spent on fixing this though?
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Well, I guess to fix it, I would be up for a Motec. It appears that this is as good as the Microtech can run quads to air.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:34
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Who tuned it?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:35
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BTW, I'm not having a go, I'm just thinking about a Microtech down the track, and I'm trying to sort out the tuner related problems, as opposed to the ECU deficiencies.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:36
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 16:34 |
Who tuned it?
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Somebody with lots of experience tuning 20V's!
Don't get me wrong, I love it and it performs wonderfully, but there are times when you do notice the flatness. I will talk to the tuner about this before I make any more comments.
Cheers,
Jeremy.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 06:38
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Dale,
Would you be able to speak to some of the customers with 20v's you've tuned and shed some light on it?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 08:44
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There is also a big difference between keeping a 20v to idle, and keeping a 16v with 20v quads idling. Mainly due to the lack of an ISCV to keep the idle air constant. Tuning for idle is easy with that, without........
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 08:54
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| takai wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 18:44 |
There is also a big difference between keeping a 20v to idle, and keeping a 16v with 20v quads idling. Mainly due to the lack of an ISCV to keep the idle air constant. Tuning for idle is easy with that, without........
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is hell. 
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Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 10:20
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Hmmm.... Stay away from the WOLF3D V4. Its got starting issues. I'll go for the Haltech over the Microtech any day.
In saying that, the Wolf isn't too bad a unit once the car starts (!), runs the car beautifully. Quads, 310deg cams with GZE injectors. Economy isn't too bad either, but as most of the guys have mentioned up here, it all comes down to the tuning of the ECU.
Cheers.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 12:29
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This certainly has been an interesting discussion. And if you combine this thread with the other thread quite a good resource.
I have decided on a new E6X, ordered today. Getting it tomrorow.
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Location:
Canberra, ACT
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 15:44
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I've seen numerous Motec M4s sell for $1500 or less. You'd then need to buy a new M4 loom, which doesn't cost much. The rest of the costs are probably much the same as with the other ECUs.
I'd hope that if they were selling for more than that, they'd have some of the costs-extra options enabled, eg. wideband lambda
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 22:11
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| ae86trueno wrote on Mon, 27 September 2004 15:02 |
Wasnt that a fuel Filter blokage he eventually tracked it down to ??? cant remember too long ago.
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There was a problem with that initially, but, we wound up changing back to ZE ones anyway, I'm not 100% sure of the duty cycle in the end come to think of it...
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Mon, 27 September 2004 22:38
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At a simple calculation of estimated HPx1.8 i wound up with an approximate of 340cc injectors. Thats at 75% duty cycle. So the GZE injectors fit. The 100kw ones do work, but at ~90% duty cycle, which i think is a bit much.
Either way i have both, and the haltech should be able to cope with both. Come to think of it i may make up a generic joiner plug so i can swap the high-impedence (100kw) and low-impedence (GZE) plugs around.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 00:13
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With a little bit of careful grinding on the top of the injector, NA injector plugs will fit a ZE injector...
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 00:19
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damm i hate computers, had a big reply to everyone typed and lost it!
to start
ae86drift
rpm points on the LT range are identical to the e6 range of haltech, when the update for the "S" series is done there will be more than double the load points of the e6 range,
justcallmefrank
i tuned ae86sluts car, its the only 20v i have ever done that has felt flat in the bottom end, waiting to do a road tune on it to see if there is a problem in the tune, there are a few other people on here whos 20v's i have tuned ill try and remember there user names, "the Dayo" is one that comes to mind, he never had any dramas at all even after i tuned it when it was turbo.
AE86slut
motec wont fix your problem, i really thing you need to put the stock trumpets back on and that will fix your problem, no other 20v i have ever touched fells flat or bogs down out of corners, as i have said via pm we will do a road tune on it and see what is going on,
anyone can make trumpets, weather they work or not is another thing, 90% of the time trumpets will only help up top and will hinder the low end running of the engine, i have played with hundreds of different shapes on small engines and knows what works and what dosent, stock ones work fine.
microtech can control ISCV no problems at all, i have many cars running them, not all cars need them but they do help in a lot of cases.
dale
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 00:26
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to swap the plugs over you just have to grind the locating lug off the sides of the injector, very easy to do
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 00:43
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Cool. Thanks for clearing that up Dale.
I hope I didn't give anyone the impression that I wasn't happy with the tuning coz that is not true. Dale is the man when it comes to tuning 20V's IMO and I will not go anywhere else!
Dale, I think you are right with regards to the trumpets. It does make a lot of sense now that I think about it with the shorter, straighter trumpets making very good top-end power on my engine. It's not so much feeling flat down low, it's more going from light/mid throttle to WOT. It seems to rev a lot quicker if I gradually press down on the pedal as the revs rise.
Cheers mate. I'll be coming out to see you as soon as I can!
Jeremy.
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 01:01
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it could be as simple as the VVT switch on needs adjusting, but we will sort that out on the road,
do you have the stock trumpets??
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 01:06
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Unfortunately I don't have the stock trumpets man. But if that is the cause (trumpet design) of the lack of throttle response, then I'm happy with that. I'd rather keep my top end than change trumpets and lose it but gain a bit of low-mid.
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Location:
Syndey
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 01:12
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cool,
give me a buzz later in the week and we will work out a time,
next week should be fine,
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 01:21
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Done and done. Thanks champ!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 05:33
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Dale the problem with tuning quads on a 16v is not the ISCV, which all ECUs can control. But rather the complete lack of the ISCV which causes the problem.
Anyway, i have gone with the E6X due to prior proven performance. (Wow that sounded like an intended acronym (which its not)).
Also on the trumpet debate, yes shorter trumpets will give better high end power at the lack of low end response. I have short trumpets on my car, bearing in mind that i have 304* cams, and am not expecting anything down low. I have geared the car up for high end performance as it will be used as a track car 90% of the time.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What ECU to run Quad throttle 16v
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Tue, 28 September 2004 13:11
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Dont settle for anything less than Motec or Autronic. Personally Rex has seen a few 'other' systems come throuigh work and they have been less than desirable. Power yes, drivebility, not quite so nice.
Motec and Autronic will run anything you throw at them from huge cams and ITB's with large injectors to precise cold starting.
Motec has droppeded its prices on the M4 and M48 range making it unbeatable for the money.
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