| Author | Topic |
|---|
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 02:03
|
 |
Hi guys,
I've just acquired a set of camber tops for my RA28.
Can someone direct me through the process of carefully putting these in? would these raise the overall height of the car?
I'm worried about setting the control arms/tie rods out of alignment.
Thanks
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 02:13
|
|
When I put mine in the height did change slightly, can't remember which way though. Depends on the brand/design etc.
As for installing them its really quite easy.
Take the shock out (undo 2 bolts at the bottom, 3 on top). Will need to unbolt brake caliper as well.
Get a spring compressor to compress the springs. Then undo the nut at the top of the shock, take the original top off and put your new camber tops on.
Then re-assemble.
As for toe etc, you'd really want to take it to a wheel alignment place to dial in camber and set the toe. You can do it yourself if you want with tape measure etc.
Cheers
Joel
|
|
|
Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 02:53
|
|
Hey guys,
Sorry for a thread hijack, 
just wondering the specific brands of strut top you guys are using? cos im thinking of buying a set sometime soon, and not sure which model i should go for.
Any differences/benefits of using specific models that u guys know of or are they all basically the same design?
Is there any more adjustability in some units compared to others?
I know of Noltec make a set, because am i right in thinking u use/have used them in your ra28 joel?
But what other options are there?
Kmac?
whiteline?
Anyone with good/bad experiences with any of these units?
Cheers,
Guy
|
|
|
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 03:20
|
|
thanks Joel
I forgot to mention that I've got coil-overs at the front so would these adapt to my plates? I bought the car as is and i don't know what brand the CO's are, but I'm guessing camber plates would adopt most strut tops?
If i give it maximum negative camber, would i need to adjust the castor/control rods to accomidate for the extra lengths?
I'm also wondering why the caliper needs to be off.
If you could clear me up on these things it'd be appreciated!
Note: the plates are of an unknown brand as well
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 03:46
|
|
Black RA28,
to answer your question, I have a set of K-mac adjustable tops and yes they do the job but I would not recommend them from my experience.
Mine had to be made specially, they were not kept in stock. They took 2 weeks to be made and when being fitted to the car the 3 mounting holes did not line up, strange considering they were meant to be made specifically for my car. A call was made to K-Mac, they assured they were the correct ones and that the 3 holes in the strut tower should just be filed out the extra 7mm or so to fit.
They have a very limited range of adjustment on my car (may be different on other vehicles).
They didn't come with dust caps (old ones didn't fit either).
The bearing in the strut tops are already shagged after only about 4000km of driving.
When I asked why my kit didn't com with the dust caps for the tops via email I got no response. I spoke to them face to face at a car show and was given some bizarre story that got so far off track I ended up walking away (incidentally all the kits they had hanging up on display had the dust cpas in them).
The fisnish quality is average and the accuracy of the placement of the centre mounting point surrounded by the urethane leaves a lot to be desired.
I hope this isn't protrayed as a pointless bagging of K-Mac, this is just my first hand experience, I am sure others have had a better time with them. Like I said though, they do the job, in an ugly sort of way.
Papercut, the coil overs should be no probs as they would have fitted to your standard strut tops and your new tops should be a repalcement for these.
Callipers need to come off because they are probably attached to your strut therefor your will only be able to move your strut as far as the length of the brake line ie not far.
Cheers.
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 04:17
|
|
As for Noltec.. they seem to be made well but I also had to file out the holes a few mm same as you ke382tg. But dont think it was quite 7mm.
What I don't like about them is the lack of adjustment, the design which I think is similar to kmac, is you have a large plate sandwitched between 2 other plates. Now if you try to dial in a lot of neg the plate just hits the inside of the shock tower. Most I can get is around 1.5 neg, now with my RCA's in place, I have basically neutral camber with the strut tops dialed right in.
When I originally ordered them Noltec had 2 types, one 'supposedly' went up to around 3 deg neg camber which I thought would be heaps. The other was for up to neg 6, but these are a lot harsher as no rubber in them. If I was to purchase another set i'd get these though.
T3 design and cusco looks a lot better, but they dont make them for RA celicas, just AE86's.
Im going to be moving my control arms out 20mm to get some neg camber then just use the strut tops to fine tune it.
Cheers
Joel
|
|
|
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 05:02
|
|
thanks guys,
what i'm pondering is, if i lengthened the control arm, dialled out more castor and camber to maximum, would this be beneficial as opposed to just putting in the plates and dialling maximum camber?
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 05:39
|
|
I reckon thats a good idea as camber tops dont give enough neg camber. Especially if you start running roll centre adjusters etc.
Caster is also good so yeah..
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 05:45
|
|
Joel your lucky with 1.5 degrees neg camber mine can only get 0.5 max neg camber. I have coil overs so I have plenty of room inside the strut tower to go further, but the adjustable top doesn't have much range.
0.5 is fine for the muck around driving I do and the occassional track day. 
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 06:11
|
|
I did have neg 1.5 ... now have 0 due to rca's.
Yeah I also have coilover so have heaps of room for the shock, but not enough for the plate in the camber top.
I think neg 1 degree would be about spot on for spirited driving and occasional track day 
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 06:16
|
|
Yeah mine is 0.5 degrees neg camber (max) with 20mm RCA's fitted. I could not believe how much of a positive effect the RCA's made to my handling, a huge transformation to the car.
Strayed off topic....wooops.
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 06:22
|
|
I put 35mm RCAs in so thats probably where my extra .5 might have gone 
But yeah, they are well worth it.
|
|
|
Registered:
April 2003
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 06:50
|
|
that brings me to my next question. Do RCA's lower the ride height of the vehicle?
I have looked into some diagrams and it looks as though there is some 'free lowering' in installing these. Can someone clear me up?
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 07:04
|
|
RCA's make no change at all of the ride height.
They sit under the stub axle holding the wheel on, so they are only altering the angle of the control arm.
Cheers
Joel
|
|
|
Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 11:29
|
|
Ah okay this is all very interesting..
So Noltec mite make a second top with greater-adjustment (~6mm), i mite email them and see if they still do and a price, and see if they even make adjustable lower control arms ..
If not, would a local engineers shop be able to make up something like this pretty easily?
So to really have control over your camber/castor/toe in the RA strut, With an 32-35mm RCA fitted, would be best to extend your lower control arms slightly, fit adjustable strut tops, am i right?
seeing id be getting a few new bits are there any other pieces in the front end that need to made be adjustable/or extended? custom tie-rods? will a non-adjustable swaybar pose a problem?(cant see why it would)
Im fitting a freshly rebuilt steering box soon to finish replacement of all the steering components, so im getting keen on the idea of going to the next stage with the suspension and get rid of bump steer..
plus I want that -camber! hehe
Thanks,
Guy
[Updated on: Thu, 16 September 2004 13:17]
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 14:46
|
|
Sorry about the big pictures guys.
But this is what i had to do for my Cusco cambertops.
As you can see in the first photo the adjustment bolts slot through the plate and extend a few mm below the plate. In doing this they would interfere with the upper hat on the coilovers being able to sit flush against the bottom of the camber top.
Solution: Get some small spacers machined up to sit between the cambertop and the upper hat. Looks like this now:
Hope taht was helpful.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 16:20
|
|
which is why a pair of my cusco camber tops came with some washers
thanks for the info takai
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 22:05
|
|
|
Aye, if you look closely there is a washer in the first pic. When i designed my own spacers i took these into account, and designed them in.
|
|
|
Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Thu, 16 September 2004 23:34
|
|
Yeah i'm quite sure Noltec make the 2 kinds, one uses polyurahane around the spherical bearing in the top (spelling), then they make a more race orientated one without the polyurahane and supposedly more adjustment.
I dont think they would make adjustable lower control arms, but you dont need to either! Its quite easy to fit Sigma control arms, or I think its one of the MX cressidas have longer arms. FYI RA28 arms, along with AE86, are 300mm long.
With a 35mm RCA fitted and wanting neg camber, you definately need to extend the control arm or get a different designed strut top to the Noltec item (and by sounds of it kmac item) that I have. So 2 options there really. I'm going to be moving the pivot point out of my control arm (not extending it so to speak) to get zero bump steer, but this is related to the rack n pinion swap. I'll be moving out each side 20mm which should give me plenty of neg camber with my current strut tops. Basically then the strut tops will just be for fine adjustment.
If you extend the control arm, you'd want a longer threaded shaft between the inner and outer tie rods.
The radius rod has a fair amount of adjustment for castor on it. I reckon this is enough, but Noltec can add more thread to it so you can run more castor again.
Don't see why a non-adjustable swaybar would cause any problems.
Any other questions just ask.. I've got the RA28 handling soooo much better now than what it ever has before. The AE86 used to always out-corner it but now the 28 is catching up quick
| blackRA28 wrote on Thu, 16 September 2004 21:29 |
Ah okay this is all very interesting..
So Noltec mite make a second top with greater-adjustment (~6mm), i mite email them and see if they still do and a price, and see if they even make adjustable lower control arms ..
If not, would a local engineers shop be able to make up something like this pretty easily?
So to really have control over your camber/castor/toe in the RA strut, With an 32-35mm RCA fitted, would be best to extend your lower control arms slightly, fit adjustable strut tops, am i right?
seeing id be getting a few new bits are there any other pieces in the front end that need to made be adjustable/or extended? custom tie-rods? will a non-adjustable swaybar pose a problem?(cant see why it would)
Im fitting a freshly rebuilt steering box soon to finish replacement of all the steering components, so im getting keen on the idea of going to the next stage with the suspension and get rid of bump steer..
plus I want that -camber! hehe
Thanks,
Guy
|
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
|
|
Re: Installing Camber tops
|
Fri, 08 October 2004 05:26
|
|
Guys,
If your strut mounting plate (centre plate)in the Noltec strut tops are hitting the inside of the shock tower, you can modify them to get more camber.
Here is a quick how to.
1. Before touching the strut tops.... make a note of where you would like to stut to be located (maybe 5mm further in?)
2. Remove Strut top from the car/strut
3. Position the centre plate where you would like it to sit. Assume there was enough room in the shock tower.
4. On the side where the mounting plate excess comes out of the sandwich plates, scribe a mark around the sandwich plates. (this is the part that fouls on the inside of the shock tower)
5. Disassemble the strut tops so that you have just the strut mounting plate.
6. Cut the mounting plate on or near the scribe mark to remove the excess mounting plate. I suggest leaving a margin in case you wish to run less camber in the future.
7. Install the strut top (without the strut) to the shock tower to check for the necassary amount of adjustment.
8. Re-install strut to strut top.
If you have any questions, let me know.
Mark.
|
|
|
