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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
October 2002
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Ford vs. Holden
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Sat, 12 October 2002 23:32
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Well Bathurst is about to start and I was just wondering despite us all being Toyota people, which do we prefer, Ford or Holden. Personally I'm a Ford man and it shits me when narrow minded yobos rave about Holden when they really have no idea.
For one, the new BA Falcon as a base engine has a 4 litre straight six engine with 182Kw and 380Nm, as opposed to 152Kw and some crappy torque figure on the VY base engine. The road cars are more powerful than Holden's and the performance V8 road cars are now that way too (Monaro 225Kw, TS50 250Kw, and just wait 'til you see the GTO at 320Kw vs Holden's 298Kw Clubsport!).
No doubt about it, in V8 supercars, Holden is the bomb. They rule at it and Skaify baby's a damn awesome driver, but look at the broader perspective. Holden dominates a pissy, national-scale touring car championship in Austrlia. Ford however, supplies engine to two Formula 1 teams under the Cosworth name (Arrows and Jaguar), gets results in the World Cart series (Indy 500) and has a relatively successful WRC program with the Focus. Ford lost the WRC last year seeing Colin McRae lose to Richard Burns by writing off $600 000 worth of Focus WRC in the final stages of the last rally for the year due to driver error.
Sure they aren't doing well at all in the V8 series, but as a company and in the motorsport world, Holden would find it near impossible to be half as successful or exposed as Ford on an international scale.
Anyone who thinks V8 Supercars is the be all and end all of racing is just a pub yobo and should wake up. Personally, I'm going for Ford this weekend (Skaife's gonna win and he deserves it though), but I have to flick over to see who wins since I'd rather watch the Suzuka F1 come 3:15 this arvo.
Cheers.
[Updated on: Sat, 12 October 2002 23:52]
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 00:01
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I say: GO SKAIFEY!!!
I am somewhat of a Holden Man when it comes to V8 Supercars but I reckon that the new BA supercar looks awesome... Dick Johnson also stated that "It feels a lot better in the front end"... So they've obviously done something right...
And right now it's 3 mins to go!!!
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 00:42
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Oh no, not another one of these threads!
The only reason that Holden wind the V8 supercar series is because they spend millions of dollars in development of their cars! Even when we see the new ford on the track, the only way it will have a chance of wining is if they dont need to spend any money on the development! Time will tell I guess!
But I have to aggree with you Richard, Anyone that thinks Holden is better because they win in the supercar series is a little kid! The cars are in no way the same as the cars you buy of the show room floor!
Now lets see how many little bites I get 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 00:48
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You can say all you want but the sales figures are the proof. Fords suck (ATM anyway) The BA's should tip the scales I think, I predict a good year for ford. That supercar was fuckin sweet. Go the mustang!!
As for the drivers, Lownds won in a holden and sucks in a ford. Enough said. I will admit thgat Skaife is dominating this year, I think it is a combination of driver and car though.
Tim.
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Location:
Melbourne Eastern Suburbs
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 02:36
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Remember how Holden was trying to keep the VY secret? Like no adverts or prerelease brochures etc...
Then 4 pictures of each VY luxury level appeared on some yank Ford forum/website, and the whole "secrecy" thing fell apart.
Thing is, a multi-billion dollar company can sure keep some things under wraps- perhaps there is more to the new Commodore than meets the eye? I mean, it's stupid that they are entering the VY into the market and attempting to ride on the popularity of the VT and VX.
I reckon that Holden is such an intelligent company, that they might have a little secret up their sleeve. Maybe these VYs they've been having at dealerships about the place are just a taste test?
I hope so anyway 
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 07:13
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SKAIFE IS THE 2002 BATHURST WINNER!!!
I told you all at 10:00am that he would win it...
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 07:20
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I gather the race is over?
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 07:30
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Yep, all over...
1st - Skaife/ Richards
2nd - Ingall / Richards
3rd - Bright / Mezera
4th - Kelly / Pretty
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 07:38
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I still didn't see the new Ford done up! Although I did see the pace car 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 07:45
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GO SKAIFE
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 08:03
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um, what happened to skaife in the r32? oops! did i say that, thats right the nissans won so then they changed the rules to make it holden vs ford.
goods drive by mr skaife tho.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 08:37
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just thought id like to clear this up. alot of people just seem to think it was a big scam to get rid of the skyline.
as you know, they adopted the group A rules to try and make the race more interesting.
anyway, to the point, we all know that they really did it to get rid of the sierra, not the skyline  ...... or atleast in my opinion
o and i dont think the change was too bad. if u think about it, the skyline was made to compete in group a events. none of the other cars were really. so they have a pretty big advantage from the start.
i guess its just like junior sports, they dont make kids of different ages play because the advantage is too great *pictures 18 year old beating up 9 year olds*
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Location:
Coffs
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 08:56
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Yes it was a good race watching HOLDEN win the top 5.
That would suck if skaife lost because some wanker littered. (or tho there was alot of wind around so that may of not been the case). For people that dont know what happened 2 plastic bags got stuck in front of the radiator of his car and it over heated bad.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 09:07
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This also happened to a Ford and was the reason it broke! So was said on the news!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 09:48
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Yeah the 00 car got one bag in the radiator and cooked the engine even though they pulled the bag out then hit the track again the engine gave up, where skaifes car had one bag in it for about 5 laps then at the end the whole radiator was full of bags for another few laps but the Holden kept itself together unlike the ford did
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Location:
Canberra, ACT
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 10:15
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Yeah, the last 7 laps where the best, one of the HRT blokes said that they had never run the engine that hot, I'm guessing they may not have even tested them that hot, but either way, it is very impressive...
A little side note, I was driving back from Tuross Heads on the long weekend back to Canberra, and I saw no less than 5 falcon's (mid '90 models) pulled over broken down (bonnets up) and only one old torrie on the side
go the holdens
-Andrew
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I supported Toymods
Location:
yandina sunshine coast
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 10:29
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all over for another year
Ihave been a ford fan for years but was really hoping ingall/richo would knock off the biggggg budget twr teams
on thing of interest next year (the first time in 30 years) ford are building race cars in house and there will now be parity and millions of bucks spent from both sides
just remember the holdens crossed the finish with ford diffs!!!!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 11:42
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What a shit race. no matter how far ahead you get they keep bringing out the FOIF+_&#$}(_$F safety car. what a bunch of women ( no offense ladies) did you hear them whingeing and whining about the kerbs in the 60's and 70's? noOOooo. PLUS they cancelled the REAL CARS in the historic race after half a lap.
I think hoplden fans should keep in mind that a 3rd generation 5.7 has a significant advantage over an old 5.0 much more so over 1000km.
Ok I'm done now.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 13:17
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| ttsoarer wrote on Sun, 13 October 2002 20:29 |
just remember the holdens crossed the finish with ford diffs!!!!
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 Thats funny.
Hey that BA Falcon that Dicky took for a strap, did it have a solid diff or the IRS?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 21:29
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that car was done up to Supercar levels so i reckon it would of had a solid diff not IRS as its against the rules
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 21:44
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Frankly, I preferred the Touring car racing when:
A) It was a little more reflective of what you could buy in the showroom - eg. "loosely" based on a road-going model, unlike now where there is no similarity whatsoever and,
B) When other makes were allowed to compete (before they became too good and had to be removed to cater to the beer-swillers on the Mountain)
It is completely farcical in current form, and I for one have largely lost interest...
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Location:
Mornington Peninsula
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 22:37
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Go holden!
Well what a good race it was. Brock finished 1 place better than he started, he had fun which was the main thing. We had to skull our drinks everytime the pace car made an apperance so there were quite a number of people passed out by the end.
I've always been brought up to be a holden girl, I think my dad would dis own me if I was a Ford person. I'm not a fan of the BA's cause the look very similar to the VX, Ford could have been a bit more original. Comparing the AU's and the VX's comfort VX wins hands down. Being tall I find the way the seating is set up in the AU is uncomfortable front and back. The way the roof is shaped everyone I know that doesn't travel in the AU's all that often always hit their head. The rear wheel arch comes into the cab of the car a lot which makes it arkward to get into.
That's just my 2 cents worth.
Go Skaife!!!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 23:30
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All I can say.. is who REALLY had to watch the race to see who would win????
BUT.. I still can't wait till Toyota gets there butts into gear and get the Avalon out there to play with those guys...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Sun, 13 October 2002 23:33
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| biased99 wrote on Mon, 14 October 2002 07:44 |
Frankly, I preferred the Touring car racing when:
A) It was a little more reflective of what you could buy in the showroom - eg. "loosely" based on a road-going model, unlike now where there is no similarity whatsoever and,
B) When other makes were allowed to compete (before they became too good and had to be removed to cater to the beer-swillers on the Mountain)
It is completely farcical in current form, and I for one have largely lost interest...
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Don't give up yet, from what i've heard there is a 24Hr Bathurst race on around the 16th of November which i think is a type of Production Car race and Holden is putting in a 7L V8 Monaro but i've been told it won't be able to Win as its not a Production car but it is still aloud to enter the race, i may be wrong about this but its just what i've heard. hope its true 24Hrs no sleep here i come 
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Location:
Mornington Peninsula
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 00:27
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| HSV_gal wrote on Mon, 14 October 2002 09:30 |
BUT.. I still can't wait till Toyota gets there butts into gear and get the Avalon out there to play with those guys...
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I don't think Toyota's are making Avalons anymore. My b/friend does the electronic components for Toyota and said they are scrapping the Avalon and they're are brining out a new car, I heard it could be called the Picnic. Pretty crappy name.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 01:04
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I could be wrong... I was just told that Toyota were working on an Avalon to run with the V8's...
BUT.. like I said... The amount of people that spin Crap these days, it's a believe it when I see it situation!
and yes.. Picnic is a crappy name.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 02:29
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Yeah, the 24hr race is comming, I am going, even think I'll camp (even though you can see the things from my house!) I also heard that Nick Cage wanted to race in it?
Tim
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Location:
Mornington Peninsula
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 03:30
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Just spoke to my b/friend
Apparently the Avalons have sunk because no one was buying them. They are actually going to make the Camry's with a 5lt RWD. Don't know how successful they'll be but we'll have to wait and see.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 04:00
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| ra23celicachick wrote on Mon, 14 October 2002 13:30 |
Just spoke to my b/friend
Apparently the Avalons have sunk because no one was buying them. They are actually going to make the Camry's with a 5lt RWD. Don't know how successful they'll be but we'll have to wait and see.
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Sounds sweet. All they really need is the 4lt vvti they already have and throw that in, but I guess there is something about the crowd and 5litres. Must make them feel more sophisticated because that is the size of their "yuppie" wine casks. Ohhhhh! luxury!
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 04:28
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hey just a bit of trivia for ya. the new BA and VY have the exact same back(not diff but actual body shape)and just different lights etc. my cousin works at holdens plant in adelaide. oh yeah look out for the new twin cab ute coming out in the near future!!!!!
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Club Member
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 07:24
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Yeah that's correct... The Avalons are selling like hot cakes, NOT!!! No-one wants to buy them at all...
The Picnic is kind of a gay name but It's already in Japan... I read about it at work when I was bludging one day...
A Camry 5 Litre RWD!!! Is there any information about this car anywhere??? That'd be sik!!! Finally, they're gunna make a nice Camry... What body shell will it be using??? I reckon that they should make it using the Widebody Shell... I loved that Super tourer car that they made...
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 09:19
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Well good on Skaify (Damn him and damn Holden!). But the Ford engine is allegedly faster, just the geometry setup sucks (front brakes and supnsion failing on most of 'em). Couldn't believe that bag that screwed Lowndes up and Skaife kept it going to win. Damn!
Ah well, at least Mr. Schumacher won the Japanese F1 for me. Now there's a legendary driver. He is a GOD!!
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 13:15
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The problem with that 5l UZ is that the V8 Supercars are rev-limited to 7500rpm.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Mon, 14 October 2002 23:17
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hahaha bloody pushrod dinosoaurs, as i said the yanks definitly have the right idea, work a real V8...
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Location:
Balranald
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Tue, 15 October 2002 06:32
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| Richard84 wrote on Sun, 13 October 2002 09:32 |
......Personally I'm a Ford man and it shits me when narrow minded yobos rave about Holden when they really have no idea.
For one, the new BA Falcon as a base engine has a 4 litre straight six engine with 182Kw and 380Nm, as opposed to 152Kw and some crappy torque figure on the VY base engine. The road cars are more powerful than Holden's and the performance V8 road cars are now that way too (Monaro 225Kw, TS50 250Kw, and just wait 'til you see the GTO at 320Kw vs Holden's 298Kw Clubsport!).
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Yeah the new Falcon may have better performance specs but have you sat in one??
OH DEAR  
Commodore wins hands down
Holden really do know how to make comfy seats
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Tue, 15 October 2002 08:28
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The seats may be comfy but there is just not enough leg room in the Holdens! They may be ok for a female to drive but not a male!
I dont know about you but I dont like driving for 4 hours with my legs togeather! And before anyone says "no no the Holden is wider so it must have more leg room" go get a tape measure and see for your self!
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Tue, 15 October 2002 11:39
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| AE82TwinCam wrote on Sun, 13 October 2002 20:15 |
Yeah, the last 7 laps where the best, one of the HRT blokes said that they had never run the engine that hot, I'm guessing they may not have even tested them that hot, but either way, it is very impressive...
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i have it on fairly good authority that the engine in skaifes car was no where near going kaboom like lowndes. the liquid coming out the back was water from the overflow and the water temp was 118° whereas HRT has tested them to atleast 124° and not had the head crack. the gearbox temp was at 181°.
also although the bags were covering the intake there is a little gap above the mesh so cool air could still pass over the radiator... just at a much lesser volume.
as for HRT having the biggest budget, their sponsorship only comes to approx 3million a year (maybe a tad higher than the other big teams) but the extra money their use for R&D comes from the sale of merchandising.
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Sure they aren't doing well at all in the V8 series, but as a company and in the motorsport world, Holden would find it near impossible to be half as successful or exposed as Ford on an international scale
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Holden can't achieve that because it isn't a worldwide brand brainiac. its a subsidiary of General Motors. I'm sure if holden was refering to as GM in australia then the publicity worldwide would be much better. also i'm sure we all know how successful jaguar have been in F1 so far. sacking half the technical staff every year is a sure-fire way to start winning!
[Updated on: Tue, 15 October 2002 11:45]
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Location:
Balranald
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Wed, 16 October 2002 06:20
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| Cool1 wrote on Tue, 15 October 2002 18:28 |
The seats may be comfy but there is just not enough leg room in the Holdens! They may be ok for a female to drive but not a male!
I dont know about you but I dont like driving for 4 hours with my legs togeather! And before anyone says "no no the Holden is wider so it must have more leg room" go get a tape measure and see for your self!
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Well I think the back seat is HUGE in a Commodore. I'm 6 foot 3 and have miles of leg room even sitting behind dad who is 6 foot 1. Not sure how big you giants are but I wouldn't like to meet you in a dark alley
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Location:
Balranald
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Wed, 16 October 2002 06:23
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But then again some relatives have a Caprice and they are 2 foot 8 just about.....and there an elderly couple
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Location:
Adelaide and Queenstown T...
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Wed, 16 October 2002 06:24
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you can't tell me that the new monaro is not a sexy automobile.
Ford definitely has had some nice cars in the past- true classics but they have produced nothing but crap especially in Australia for the last 20 years (at least). All i know is my old torana was indestructable until a sigma decided to drive in front of me while I was doing 60 through an intersection and the cops said that if i wasn't in a torana then I probably wouldn't have walked away from the crash.
Have a look at some of the opels and vauxhalls that race all over the world, I definitely wouldn't scoff at one of those touring car calibra's, they look pretty wild to me.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Wed, 16 October 2002 06:36
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the Monaro might be nice to look at but they are VERY uncomfortable to spend any length of time in.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Berowra-Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Wed, 16 October 2002 08:20
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who cares if they are uncomfortable i'd still love one
saw a yellow GTS coupe the other day in the flesh and god its a sexy car, and i like cars which are cosy just like my 23 hate cars where you have heaps of room around you makes me feel more unsafe
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Wed, 16 October 2002 09:01
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| viagra_cressida wrote on Wed, 16 October 2002 16:20 |
| Cool1 wrote on Tue, 15 October 2002 18:28 |
The seats may be comfy but there is just not enough leg room in the Holdens! They may be ok for a female to drive but not a male!
I dont know about you but I dont like driving for 4 hours with my legs togeather! And before anyone says "no no the Holden is wider so it must have more leg room" go get a tape measure and see for your self!
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Well I think the back seat is HUGE in a Commodore. I'm 6 foot 3 and have miles of leg room even sitting behind dad who is 6 foot 1. Not sure how big you giants are but I wouldn't like to meet you in a dark alley
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I'm not that tall (only 6ft i think) but I have big legs! I dont have the kind of body to be driving something that does'nt allow my nut sack to breath 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Wed, 16 October 2002 09:22
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GIN5IE..
I wouldn;t mind one either... BUT... not as an everyday all day driver... like I said... they are uncomfortable...
it's like driving around in a ute all day...
nice cars but needs to have the seats rethought I think.
As for the coupe.... now THAT is a really nice car....
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Location:
Balranald
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Thu, 17 October 2002 05:48
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| Cool1 wrote on Wed, 16 October 2002 19:01 |
| viagra_cressida wrote on Wed, 16 October 2002 16:20 |
| Cool1 wrote on Tue, 15 October 2002 18:28 |
The seats may be comfy but there is just not enough leg room in the Holdens! They may be ok for a female to drive but not a male!
I dont know about you but I dont like driving for 4 hours with my legs togeather! And before anyone says "no no the Holden is wider so it must have more leg room" go get a tape measure and see for your self!
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Well I think the back seat is HUGE in a Commodore. I'm 6 foot 3 and have miles of leg room even sitting behind dad who is 6 foot 1. Not sure how big you giants are but I wouldn't like to meet you in a dark alley
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I'm not that tall (only 6ft i think) but I have big legs! I dont have the kind of body to be driving something that does'nt allow my nut sack to breath
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I don't know how to cut down the quote so i'll leave it like this...Try your parents owning a Cressida for too many years and lots of family holidays in it from Byron Bay to near Adelaide....non stop...with 2 biggish sisters as well competing for back seat room (sorry sisters). I really wish we had a Commodore then!
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ford vs. Holden
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Thu, 17 October 2002 07:09
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oh yeah have you guys seen the new GTO, its FU#@%^& amazing. i WANT ONE. theres always one parked in town. a yellow one, beautiful
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