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Registered:
May 2002
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Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 03:57
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Does anyone get their tyres pumped with Nitrogen at the moment?
Bob Jane T Mart in Haberfield reckons they will offer it in about a couple of weeks time.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 04:08
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My ol man had this done to his 4X4. Meant to make towing feel a little better and make the tyres last a bit longer 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 05:37
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Well that is interesting. I am not too sure about it though as most motorsports don't use Nitrogen as far as I am aware and if anyone loves to control tire temps it's motoracing to the fore.
Have to do some research................ 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 05:40
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Aircraft are required to inflate their tyres with nitrogen to minimise the chances of a tyre exploding when landing. Aircraft tyres get very hot very quickly, and the presence of oxygen can cause spontaneous combustion in extreme circumstances.
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This Directive was issued in response to the catastrophic loss of an airliner and reports of severe damage to others as a result of wheel well tyre explosions. The explosion of the tyres has been attributed to the spontaneous combustion of gases generated within the tyres at elevated tyre temperatures. Inflation of tyres with an inert gas reduces the oxygen content to a level below that at which ignition is sustainable.
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This is taken from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority web site. You can view the full document here:
http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/aircraft/ad/adfiles/e quip/whe/WHE-004.pdf
Now, do you really think your car tyres are going to get this hot? It may be an issue for heavy trucks or race cars, but not road cars. IMO it's just an excuse for Bob Jane to charge you for filling your tyres!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 05:46
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| dylusion wrote on Thu, 05 June 2003 14:13 |
My dad just put some wheels on the camry, he is mates with the owner/operator of the local bob jane, he did the nitrogen for free, it is meant to make the tyre run cooler and last heaps longer.
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Yeah it makes sense, but it is also said to make the tyre wear more evenly and last longer or somethin.. i am not a scientist, just going off what some one has told me.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 05:54
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LOL my cousin just got new tyres on his 180B and the tyre guy talked him into putting nitrogen in... I just laughed... ok it may have some application in a race setup but it has absolutely no tangible benefit to a road car that I can see. Sad thing is he paid $6 a tyre  I asked him what he was going to use to inflate they tyre if it should loose a little pressure.. he had to go ask the tyre place and they told him just use normal air at a servo... thats just classic why bother putting it in, in the first place
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Location:
bris
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 06:14
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from memory, nitrogen has less thermal expansion that oxygen (air) thus giving a more even tyre pressure more of the time
at least i think so anyway...
also it could be snake oil being fed to every bob jane customer:S
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 06:45
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According to the "experts" it helps stop moisture buildup in the wheels which is a major problem on any car and it also doesnt leak as easily as normal air!
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 06:58
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V8 supercars have used it for ages. It would have been useful at wakefield as my tyres only lasted 5 hot laps.
I've also read stories for bikes that have had it for two years and still doesn't need a refill.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 07:16
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Yes it's used for racing by those who can afford it and can be bothered with the extra equipment involved. There is less expansion in nitrogen over compressed air as it contains no moisture. Therefore there is less of a pressure increase from cold to hot. If you bother to take pyro readings across the tyre when hot and adjust pressures to maximise grip, you then take note of the pressures after they cool down. This then becomes your optimum cold pressure setting. Nitrogen does not make rubber last longer.
Laurie D
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 07:36
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| Laurie D wrote on Thu, 05 June 2003 17:16 |
Nitrogen does not make rubber last longer.
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This is not 100% true. The moisture buidup inside the wheels can/does make the rubber go brittle which in turn causes cracks. This is the most common cause of blow-outs on highways according to RACQ.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 08:31
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Oh no!!! I would have thought the most common cause of blowouts was neglect!! ...or poor tyre quality.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 09:47
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Laurie got it right.
Nitrogen doesn't leak as easily as air - complete load of crap!!
If you get air from a decent air compressor with a water trap you get minimal moisture contamination.
I've got a gut feeling that the RACQ have been licking Cane Toads!!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 10:14
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A few points:
- Air is 80% nitrogen, so any differences in thermal expansion between air and pure nitrogen will be minimal and not noticeable in any road application.
- As Blown86 mentioned, moisture is not an issue as most air compressors filter the moisture anyway.
- Pure nitrogen MAY increase the life of the rubber in your tyres (reduces oxidation), but let's face it, 99.9% of tyres get worn out LONG before degradation of the rubber becomes an issue.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 10:23
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especially most of the people on this forum, who are not known for their grandma styles (a few people aside)
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Location:
GoldCoast/Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 10:41
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Air 80% nitrogen?????
Ok so how does the 22-23% of air is Oxygen fit into that equasion??
When you compress air it changes the ratios of oxygen to nitrogen??
LOL!!  Dude you are just compressing the air, not adding or removing types of gases when you compress air from the atmosphere!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 10:43
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aahh... thought so
78.1% nitrogen
20.9% oxygen
0.9% argon
0.1% others
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Thu, 05 June 2003 10:45
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of course, it depends where you take the sample, how much humidity, and whether you're measuring my moles or mass.
regardless, nitrogen is 75-80%, and oxygen is 19-23%
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Fri, 06 June 2003 12:47
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The bottom line is Nitrogen filled wheels on your road car is just.......well a load of hot air......
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sat, 07 June 2003 02:13
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| Cool1 wrote on Thu, 05 June 2003 14:08 |
My ol man had this done to his 4X4. Meant to make towing feel a little better and make the tyres last a bit longer
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Make tyres last longer?
So does checking them everytime you fill up you lazy rich bastards. 
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sat, 07 June 2003 03:25
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Because Nitrogen doesnt leak as much as air, he doesnt have to top up the tyres out in the middle of Australia.
He had trouble with his wheels getting to much moisture in them and stuffing the tyres.
Using Nitrogen has fixed this problem.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sat, 07 June 2003 04:30
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After that ....I give up!!!!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sat, 07 June 2003 10:01
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Oh dear!!!!
...and nitrogen makes the tyres rounder so you get better fuel economy.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sat, 07 June 2003 10:22
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I was hearing that filling your tyres with Nitroigen gave the car another 20RWKW of power...is that rumour or true 
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sat, 07 June 2003 13:08
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Wonder what'd happen if you filled them with methane?
*starts eating burrito's*
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Location:
Sydney, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sat, 07 June 2003 14:40
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Or maybe fill them with helium and change your number plates to "ZEPLIN"
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sun, 08 June 2003 03:42
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Why not fill ur spare tyre with laughing gas and run a line to ur fuel supply... no more ugly blue bottles
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sun, 08 June 2003 08:56
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nitrogen doesn;t really do anything its mostly bullshit. just runs ur tyres a tad bit cooler, like 3, 4 degrees, whoopedoo
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sun, 08 June 2003 13:11
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Mis-information and speculation is a great marketing tool, personally i havent taken the time to measure the 1000th of a second difference between here and the local newspaper store, because i usually take the temp. of my tires every time i pull over.
on another note, wouldnt the temp. of nitrogen increase after the heating process of tire wear, and therefore require a gas change or top up ? ie. constant expansion and contraction...
Who wants cold rubber ne how ? i thought creating sticky rubber would be more advantagous than frozen rubber...
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sun, 08 June 2003 13:43
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The idea of Nitrogen is that it doesnt leak as much as compressed air. Which means you dont have to keep filling your tyres up at servos with 10% water.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sun, 08 June 2003 13:45
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Guess that could be a good thing when u can buy enuff nitrogen in a spray can for 2 dollar ... no more lining up for air compresser at the servo
note: dont quote me on that price..
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Sun, 08 June 2003 13:48
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I have no idea on prices but my old man was going through lots of tyres traveling around OZ. Once he got the Nitrogen in there he didnt have to keep topping them up at the outback servos.
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Location:
North Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Mon, 09 June 2003 09:51
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The guys at work use Nitro all the time, might swipe a big bottle for the garage
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Mon, 09 June 2003 09:57
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Any reasons they use it Paul?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 10 June 2003 07:42
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nitrogen filled tyres......
remember the nitrogen cream bulb thingys. they were/still are lots a fun.
as fortyres. seems like a waist.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 10 June 2003 13:39
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Those cream bulb things actually contain nitrous oxide, not nitrogen. Very different stuff!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 10 June 2003 14:04
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isnt nitrogen an inert gas?
therefore it doesnt change pressure with temperature changes?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 10 June 2003 14:07
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Nitrogen is an inert gas, however ALL gases change pressure in response to temperature. It's called the Ideal Gas Law:
PV = nRT
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 10 June 2003 14:09
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I think that would have to be the main factor that attracts the reason for application in tyres...
Less likelyhood of tyres reducing in pressure, and if i remember quickly, it does not heat at the same rate as that of oxygen...
Still, if I was going to the length of worrying about which gas was in my tyres I'd want something that would take a few nails / glass bottles / small children... and not deflate (like the hummers)
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 10 June 2003 14:11
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Hoo rah Norbie... you can go straight to the top of the class !
I can barely remember what I had for breakfast let alone the formulae of high school...
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Location:
Brisn
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 12 October 2004 12:36
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I have been using Nitrogen for 2 years and can honestly say that it makes a huge difference with the performance and longevity of the tires.
I keep logs on my car for tax purposes and believe that the tires are lasting about 40% longer.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 12 October 2004 13:11
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we shall now call nitrogrn fill "Jesus", for his ability to raise the dead
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Location:
Tassie
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 12 October 2004 13:13
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I heard it was denser and was mainly used in extra low profile tyres.
But i might be wrong the guy who told me was trying to sell me his car.
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Location:
Brisn
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 12 October 2004 13:14
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I love that lol
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 12 October 2004 23:50
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NItrogenisnt a noble gas it is just less reactive than oxygen. Motor magazine uses it when they do there tyre test as it maintains pressure levels far more stabally than oxygen. Yes air is 78% nitrogen but the nitrogen is 100% nitrogen or near enough that they are putting into your cars. When Neil Crompton was talking about tyre pressures during the V8 coverage he mentioned that the V8's use nitrogen in the tryres.
Nitrogen is not as heat sensitive as oxygen and thus does not expand as much when tyre temp increasing thus keeping tyre pressures down at their optimum level.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Tue, 12 October 2004 23:57
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So you're basically regurgitating all the old wives tales about why nitrogen in your tyres is "good".
Your homework is to find out the thermal expansion rates of air compared to pure nitrogen (try Google if you don't have any reference material handy). You might be in for a surprise!
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 00:15
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| Nitrogen Fill wrote on Tue, 12 October 2004 22:36 |
I have been using Nitrogen for 2 years and can honestly say that it makes a huge difference with the performance and longevity of the tires.
I keep logs on my car for tax purposes and believe that the tires are lasting about 40% longer.
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hmm, newcomer = Nitrogen Fill..
think he has any vested interests 
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Location:
Melbourne, Victoria
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 00:17
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It doesn't seem worth the $24 it costs really...if it were cheaper, it might be worth it!
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Location:
Brisn
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 00:18
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I know it is working for me and if you are sceptical why not give it a go as it would only cost you $24 after you get some new tyres and record the difference
I'm just relaying my practical result. I'm interested in saving some money and this has worked for me
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Location:
Brisn
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 00:23
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I logged on here cause I saw some sceptics and wanted to let you know that I'm getting really good results hence Nitrogen fill
I have no other vested interest ei a bob jane tmart franchise lol
I own my own carpet cleaning business and have 3 trucks on the road with each tyre costing $170 each.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 04:35
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So you're saying that filling your tyres with nitrogen makes them last longer? In other words, the nitrogen inside the tyre magically decreases the wear rate of the rubber outside the tyre? Wow, that's some pretty amazing stuff!
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 04:38
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It wont affect the rubber in any way but tyre pressure has a major effect on the wear rate of tyres thus if the pressere is more stable and maintained at the optimum level it would increase tyre life.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 05:05
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If i put nitrogen in my tyres will they last more than the usual 5000kms?
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 05:10
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depend son how many burnouts you do
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 05:16
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 13 October 2004 14:35 |
So you're saying that filling your tyres with nitrogen makes them last longer? In other words, the nitrogen inside the tyre magically decreases the wear rate of the rubber outside the tyre? Wow, that's some pretty amazing stuff!
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Nitrogen has magical properties Norbert.
I'd dare say that correct maintenance of you tyres and steering will result in greater tyre longevity than filling your tyres with nitrogen.
I would hazard an educated guess and suggest that there would be no significant difference in tyre wear between air and nitrogen filled tyres. Of course the nitrogen fillers wouldn't dare put their money where their mouth is and conduct a randomized controlled double blind study just in case my little hypothesis were proven true.
Why not fill tyres with helium? As well as being a truly inert gas, it would have the added advantage of reducing unsprung mass. Then you could sing its praises regarding better handling and roadholding. Does anyone have the comparative thermal expansion coefficients for N2, O2 and He?
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Location:
Brisn
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 05:17
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Retaining pressure Nitrogen-inflated tyres retain pressures up to 3 times longer than tyres filled with compressed air. Therefore you don't have to check the tyre pressures as often.
Maintaining temperature Heat is one of the major factors in a tyre's life. The cooler a tyre can operate over long distances and excessive suburban work [in accordance with recommended cold inflation pressures], the longer the tyre will last. Nitrogen being a gas doesn't expand or contract resulting in better cornering and road handling, and therefore increasing the tyre life and reducing the risk of blowouts.
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Nitrogen filling for tryes
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Wed, 13 October 2004 05:18
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yes but your car would start to float.
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