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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 12 October 2004 20:59
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Hi
I am in the process of getting cams.
Wade cams have said that 267 Deg cams will go good in my car and that’s all well and good.
My worry is that the standed ECU in my AE82 Twin cam 16v can only handle 260 Deg cams as via this man has said. Bill Sherwood
Have any of you guys had any problems running 267 deg cams with the stock ECU any thoughts or surgestions please let me know thanks guys.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 12 October 2004 23:05
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I'd be very interested in what you find 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 12 October 2004 23:20
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I know i would like to know too but no one seems to wanna comment
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 01:18
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Whats the lift on the cams?
I installed HKS 256* intake and exhaust cams a few weeks ago, they have lift of 8.5mm I think.
I was going to go 264* cams, but as I couldnt get any sure answer from anyone about how they would run on stock ECU, I just went the milder option.
Anyway, yes they run quite nice(I also have ported head, extractors, 2.25" exhaust), but idle is pretty crap.
I am yet to touch the cam timing, but ign timing is advanced a fair bit.
Put it this way, you do know the car has cams in it, the idle is either too high when warm or too low when cold, and sometimes it likes to stall when its had a workout or cold depending on how its set.
For this reason I would be hestintant fitting 267*.
But idling aside, I am happy with the 256's, expecially the new exhaust note
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 01:35
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Why is your idling so bad i have read of lots of ppl putting bigger cams in than what you have and had no trouble with idling
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 01:55
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I guess it depeneds on what you describe as having trouble idling
Im very picky...
This isnt my area of expertise, im just telling you my personal experiance.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 02:05
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These are the specs i got from wade cams
Profile Actuation Make/Model R/Ratio
872A Bucket/Svalve Toyota Twin Cam 4AGE 1600 In1 Ex 1
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------
Cam Lift Duration Duration Valve Valve Cam Lift Phase
Adv @050 Clr Lift tdc <)
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------
Intake 317 267 220 0.009 0.308 044 110
Exhaust 317 267 220 0.009 0.308 039
-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 04:42
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Ive use 288 8.5 lift cams with a standard ae92 88kw computer and the car wont idle smoothly below 1200 rpm. Below this rpm its just too lumpy. I believe that 272 7.5lift cams will idle somewhere at 1100 rpm smoothly. You will probably find that it'll run lean if you havent upgraded your injectors, and you wont be able to get it spot on if the ecus not remapped.
Hope this helps in some way
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 05:19
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i got on my spec sheet that comes with the cam it says cam lift 317 and valve lift 0.308 so what is this in mm
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Location:
Melb VIC
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 05:30
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317 cam lift = 8mm
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 05:55
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| rxjohn wrote on Wed, 13 October 2004 15:30 |
317 cam lift = 8mm
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hay mate how do did you work that out if you dont mind me asking
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Location:
Melb VIC
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 06:02
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multiply by 25.4, divide by 1000,
its thou of inch converted to mm
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 08:37
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I've heard that companys measure the cam duration differently. So you cant compare different brand cams of similar duration?
Seeing as my 256's have 8.5mm lift, does anyone know if these would have a longer duration than say a 256 from Wade?
And what would effect idle more, the duration or lift?
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 08:52
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| AE82-Morg wrote on Wed, 13 October 2004 06:59 |
Hi
I am in the process of getting cams.
Wade cams have said that 267 Deg cams will go good in my car and that’s all well and good.
My worry is that the standed ECU in my AE82 Twin cam 16v can only handle 260 Deg cams as via this man has said. Bill Sherwood
Have any of you guys had any problems running 267 deg cams with the stock ECU any thoughts or surgestions please let me know thanks guys.
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dude im waiting for their stock to come in as well. Frm what i heard, 267 degree should idle fine with a little increase in the idle. The dude at wade cams also said that the next degree they have (280 i think) would still work fine on standard ecu, injector etc...but i'm not too sure about that.
didnt bill sherwood say 270 degree instead of 260 for standard ecu?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 10:39
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b1gb3n
Thats what i have been told by them aswell keath from wade cams
said
267deg
These set of cams will run fine on the standard ECU and also he said that he would be very suprized if i have to replace any shimms at all as most of the ones he has fitted it was just bolt the cams in and nothing else.
and i have seen a few things and ppl correct me if i am wrong but i belive you can not upgrade your injectors unless you change your ecu now i might be wrong.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 11:20
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USDM? thats a new one.
i think you may find that american 4ages use AFM load sensing as opposed to MAP, AFM type engines dont suffer from big cams as much as MAP engines, its the same with turbos on the two different engines.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 12:26
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| shinybluesteel wrote on Wed, 13 October 2004 21:20 |
USDM? thats a new one.
i think you may find that american 4ages use AFM load sensing as opposed to MAP, AFM type engines dont suffer from big cams as much as MAP engines, its the same with turbos on the two different engines.
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no, not at all. united states domestic market. its an industry term.
but yes, correct about the ecu's
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 13 October 2004 13:39
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just go for it ae82-morg
ecu needs tampering for bigger injectors coz ecu doesnt know that ur running bigger injectors!! pretty straight forward actually
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Sun, 17 October 2004 07:33
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So is it a good idea to install 267degree wade cams into a bigport 4AGE or not?
Will it make a difference?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Sun, 17 October 2004 07:58
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| Quote: |
he would be very suprized if i have to replace any shimms at all as most of the ones he has fitted it was just bolt the cams in and nothing else.
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hahaha sounds like someone doesent know what they are measuring then 
If you use a billet cam ( not stellite reground ) then there is no way that you will use the ALL the original shims, there may be one or two within tolerance but there will more than likely be over a third of the shims out of spec. Even stellite regrinds will usually need some re-shimming.
As long as your not increasing the lift ( factory lift is about 7.4mm from memory, somebody please correct me?)then 260ish cams should run on the 100kw ecu, all larger than factory degree cams will affect idle and fuel mix to some degree unless you dyno the cams in to get the cleanest idle ( which may not neccesarily give you the best overall result in terms of your fuel map anyway ). The big port ECU should run as well.
Increasing injector size is really not the best way to go about fixing the lean out, and youd probhably get better results by using the temp sender mod to richen up the mix than trying to go to injectors that will deliver too much fuel over the whole range. Working out and then finding an injector size to suit the air/fuel mix over the whole factory map to a feasable rate will be niegh on impossible.. the best thing of course is to use an aftermarket programable ECU ( illegal in most states for a road car )
AFM systems will as mentioned be better at sorting out the fuelling issues, but most AFM 4AGE's were either import engines or out of MR2's here AFAIK
JDM or USDM computers although varying in mapping for things like emmisions and fuels wont really make a lot of difference to how the ecu reads air/fuel and therefore responds to larger cams.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
February 2004
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Mon, 18 October 2004 06:17
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Try 272duration 7.5mm lift. That would be about the maximum duration and lift combo that ive seen to work on a factory computer * with the factory map, injectors etc.. <16v head head version>
*(satisfactorily! before really losing too much drivability idle etc..)
cHeErS
levin_86
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Mon, 18 October 2004 07:03
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| LEVIN_86 wrote on Mon, 18 October 2004 16:17 |
Try 272duration 7.5mm lift. That would be about the maximum duration and lift combo that ive seen to work on a factory computer * with the factory map, injectors etc.. <16v head head version>
*(satisfactorily! before really losing too much drivability idle etc..)
cHeErS
levin_86
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u sure bout that??
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney, NSW
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Mon, 18 October 2004 07:43
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  umm is 267deg. better?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 19 October 2004 02:27
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And here is another
Ben.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 19 October 2004 10:42
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I wouldnt go with something like a 272, until I had actually seen them run in someones car and perhaps driven it, then make the decision.
On second look my HKS cams are 256 and 7.5mm lift. They run good, and there is more power than you really need for the average hills run. Why go any bigger unless your going to do more mods later on?
My guess would be your probably going to get less of a power gain compared to the driveability you lose.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 19 October 2004 14:33
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Am running the Wade 872A (267.5)cams in mine with a standard ECU etc. idles fine. Never dynoed so can't get to specific. At the time, roughly 4 years ago, Wade's reckoned that 270 was the max duration possible with standard ECU and that the profile was developed in conjunction with Toyota Aust for consideration in a factory hot up MR2.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 19 October 2004 16:45
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now they claim that 280 would be fine on standard ecu. pulley etc...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Perth WA
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 20 October 2004 02:12
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FYI a friend of mine had HKS 264x8.1 cams with gears on his std gze with std ecu with no idle problems or coil binding.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 20 October 2004 04:33
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anybody here have personally had 272 on stock ecu??
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Thu, 21 October 2004 01:47
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jaze86 has, he told me that they ran but it made power just too high up in the rev range, that it wasnt really worth it. He took them out and was after some 256 deg cams.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Thu, 21 October 2004 02:05
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| Skaney wrote on Thu, 21 October 2004 11:47 |
jaze86 has, he told me that they ran but it made power just too high up in the rev range, that it wasnt really worth it. He took them out and was after some 256 deg cams.
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What cams did he have in
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Thu, 21 October 2004 03:04
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4age cams has arrived at wadecams!! collecting mine this friday if things go well!!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Mon, 24 January 2005 16:53
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what to workshops normally charge for installing cams?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 25 January 2005 09:22
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I'd almost be tempted to try slipping them in, along with one of those Jaycar DFA kits and a bit of a damper on the MAP hose, and seeing how good I could get it. No promises, but you could probably get it to run reasonably well.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 25 January 2005 11:35
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Anybody know for certain the maximum lift possible without binding the factory springs? This may be a consideration for which cam you go for too..
I've got a set of 280 degree wade billets on order, but for a turbo 4AG with aftermarket ECU. I'm interested to see just how lumpy the idle gets...
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 25 January 2005 12:33
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As am I I'll let everyone know soon as I get mine started.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Tue, 25 January 2005 16:09
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| TE72_Turbo wrote on Tue, 25 January 2005 22:35 |
Anybody know for certain the maximum lift possible without binding the factory springs? This may be a consideration for which cam you go for too..
I've got a set of 280 degree wade billets on order, but for a turbo 4AG with aftermarket ECU. I'm interested to see just how lumpy the idle gets...
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the maximum lift allowed is around the 267 degree cams. cant remember exact figure, but u can find it on club4ag website. i remember the 280 degree one had too much lift for stock springs but the dude at wade claims it would be fine
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 26 January 2005 00:03
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Ok cool. Good thing I have some new springs too then. Thanks for clearing that up.
BTW: Remember to subtract your valve clearances from the cam lift specs to get actual VALVE lift: ie: the wade 267 cams are actually 7.8mm valve lift, not 8.0mm
Cheers
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Wed, 26 January 2005 01:37
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| Quote: |
the maximum lift allowed is around the 267 degree cams. cant remember exact figure, but u can find it on club4ag website. i remember the 280 degree one had too much lift for stock springs but the dude at wade claims it would be fine
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ok firstly, if you have no fucking idea what you are talking about then dont reply with miss-information. duration has little at all to do with the amount of lift you can use! Tell me, what lift does your so called 272 have?? is it 10mm or 7.5mm? if you cant answer that then you have no place posting something that someonelse has said without even understanding what you are saying yourself.
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Anybody know for certain the maximum lift possible without binding the factory springs? This may be a consideration for which cam you go for too..
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In terms of lift the first problem will be the shims, it is generally regarded that anything above 8mm has the potential to spit shims at high rpm and therefore over that lift will firstly need a shim under bucket setup. In terms of the spring itself the easiest way is to measure the height of the sppring at full compression, add in a safety margin of say 5mm then you should be able to determine what your maximum lift will be.
Something you will have to consider is that the more lift you have the higher rating spring you will need and therefore if you need to increase the springs dia. you "may" loose some lift. generally whenever you do a bigger cam you should automatically upgrade your springs anyway, just another thing to factor in to the cost of upgrading your cams.
club4ag has some good information as does Bill Sherwoods site, a little search will give you motre information than you can probhably get you head around, some of the clubman sites have some good tech as well.
[Updated on: Thu, 27 January 2005 06:56]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 267 Deg Cams for my 4AGE, Wade Cams, Regarding ECU
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Thu, 27 January 2005 03:18
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I ran TRD 272deg 7.5/9mm lift cams on my 100kw 4AGE w/ std ecu + intake and 2 1/2" exhaust.
I also ran adjustable cam pulleys. Idle was between 1200rpm and 1500rpm. It was lumpy, but didnt stall.
To give an idea of power difference. On a 30 degree day with plenty of hot air going to the pod filter in the engine bay it ran the same as it would on a cold 15 degree night with advanced timing and octane booster without the cams.
So the cams did make quite a noticable difference on the std ecu, however because of being a MAP sensed engine and having trouble sensing vacume fuel really did suffer a lot. About 10lt per 100km highway/city.
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