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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Sun, 07 November 2004 09:44
 
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Sydney boys?? All the good GTE's are in Canberra!  
BTW: Where do you guys get your metal head gaskets? I assume you mean multi-layer style like TRD or HKS, not copper gaskets??
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Sun, 07 November 2004 23:35
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ok boys, after reading this thread and doing abit of research, AND after driving 'AE86Boy's 4AGTE ae86 on the weekend, i have to say that i'm definately going ahead with the conversion. The power is damn impressive and perfect package for a light 4cyl with little lag.
I currently have an AFM 4AGZE with 2.5 exhaust, VR4 front mount, stock computer and boost mod already done. I also got my hands a bigport RWD GE manifold/throttle body and a sump with an 8 dash male already modded to run the oil return from the turbo. My only things left is an adequate turbo and exhaust manifold, oil lines and maybe a surgie.
Just wondering if anyone has any advice on running a stock GZE computer to run certain power, and what are the pros and cons of an aftermarket one?
Would a T28 roller be beneficial as opposed to a ball bearing?
any good links/articles would help (have read most toymods FAQ, but good threads/links to tech articles would be great) appreciate it!
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 00:22
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| Quote: |
Just wondering if anyone has any advice on running a stock GZE computer to run certain power, and what are the pros and cons of an aftermarket one?
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I ran the stock ECU (AFM crank angle sensed version) on my 4AGTE for quite a while and it went well (about 154rwkw on 15psi). The benefits I gained from going to an after market ECU:
*a little more peak power and a massive gain through the mid range, increase in torque
*the after market ECU allowed the use of 440cc injectors (7MGTE)
*allowed the removal of the vane type AFM
*better throttle control (I can only assume the reason may be attributed to the AFM removal??? When the standard ECU was used it was difficult to control the boost with the throttle i.e. it would want to be either "on" or "off" full boost. Now the throttle control is much better)
*I didn't lose any of the factory ECU features eg cold start, fuel economy etc, my aftermarket ECU appears to be well tuned and is as good in these areas and better in others. I am happy with my choice of changing over.
The cons of aftermarket ECU's are commonly known eg. meeting emmissions standards (not a problem for us here in Canberra at this stage), getting it correctly tuned, the cost of the initial tune etc etc.
| Quote: |
Would a T28 roller be beneficial as opposed to a ball bearing?
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Roller bearing = ball bearing the two names are thrown around for the same thing. Turbos come with either ball bearing (roller bearing) or bushings. Ball bearing turbos have the advantage of faster spool up and in most cases are generally of newer design than there bushing type counterparts. If I was buying a turbo now and had the cash I would go ball bearing, but at the same time, my bushing type one is working well and spools up nice and quickly.
NB a friend of mine is currently building up a 4AGTE with a brand new ball bearing T28 so I will be keen to see how it performs on the road in comparison to mine.
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 00:46
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Thanks 
yeah i've had the talk before of ball bearing and rollers before, it all seems ambiguous at times, but im interested to see how the raw feel of the actual difference of the 2 are distinguished when driving, so far i've been impressed with lower end turbochargers, so i think a T28bb would be interesting to see.
It seems as though the stock compueter will be used with mine, $$$ is holding me back, but from what i heard it would be adequate for my application.
What sort of wastegate is everyone using on theirs?
Also, i have found a cheap T25g turbo for sale, minus compressor, anyone have good figures from these?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 01:45
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you can happily run up to about 14psi on the stock (gze)computer (because you can upgrade to a nevo pulley which runs 13~14psi and its fine, but the stock injectors will probably starting to get high in their duty cycle) but as stated upgrading to an aftermarket is much better in all repects, but if you cant afford it, run the stock computer, save some money then upgrade
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 02:53
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yep, so anyone rate T25G's for 4AGTEs?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 03:22
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| ke382TG wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 11:22 |
| Quote: |
Just wondering if anyone has any advice on running a stock GZE computer to run certain power, and what are the pros and cons of an aftermarket one?
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I ran the stock ECU (AFM crank angle sensed version) on my 4AGTE for quite a while and it went well (about 154rwkw on 15psi). The benefits I gained from going to an after market ECU:
*a little more peak power and a massive gain through the mid range, increase in torque
*the after market ECU allowed the use of 440cc injectors (7MGTE)
*allowed the removal of the vane type AFM
*better throttle control (I can only assume the reason may be attributed to the AFM removal??? When the standard ECU was used it was difficult to control the boost with the throttle i.e. it would want to be either "on" or "off" full boost. Now the throttle control is much better)
*I didn't lose any of the factory ECU features eg cold start, fuel economy etc, my aftermarket ECU appears to be well tuned and is as good in these areas and better in others. I am happy with my choice of changing over.
The cons of aftermarket ECU's are commonly known eg. meeting emmissions standards (not a problem for us here in Canberra at this stage), getting it correctly tuned, the cost of the initial tune etc etc.
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Spot on, I'll assume your runnin a T28 and give Des a comparison. The setup I have recently made 155rwkw @ 13psi (MTX-8 ECU), (Rx7 injectors) I believe it is worth abandoning the Stock ECU. (this was with soaring intake temps..)
[Updated on: Mon, 08 November 2004 03:23]
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 03:31
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hmmm i'll take that into account, which reminds me, how are the intake temps compared to a 4AGZE, much overheating? would my 12inch thermo be adequate?
155rwkw, thats impressive Andrew, i drove a similar powered 4agte on the weekend, even that was a handful 
Yours a T28?
also what diameter i/c piping is sufficient? just wondering if my current pipes can do the job for the turbo
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 04:30
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i'm interested in a comparison between the WRX td04 and the GTiR T28, as i have access to both and td04s are generally pretty cheap.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 04:37
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It seems as though the stock compueter will be used with mine, $$$ is holding me back, but from what i heard it would be adequate for my application.
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$$$ is what hold us all back  The factory ECU will provide enough power for a lot of fun and a big leap forward from the supercharged setup. Later on it's easy to change to aftermarket if you feel you want to.
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What sort of wastegate is everyone using on theirs?
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Mine's an internal wastegate, but I did port it out to the absolute limit of the wastegate flap. This gave much better boost control. Before the porting it suffered from boost creep.
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ke382TG: What computer are you running now?
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Just a Microtech MTX8, only a relativley basic computer but it works a treat and has been super smooth in all conditions (anyone who has driven the car or been in it will vouch for this).
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which reminds me, how are the intake temps compared to a 4AGZE, much overheating? would my 12inch thermo be adequate?
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My car never had a readout for the air intake sensor when it was supercharged so I can't compare the two. But on my current setup I can see the intake air temps and they sit on ambient or just a few degrees over ambient, even on the track doing 20 minute session didn't see air intake temps rise much above ambient (maybe 7 or 8 degrees over ambient at most). I have a cold air box completely sealed from the engine with 2 x 3 inch feeds. I give my car a good thrashing somtimes eg. the track, drags etc and am yet to see intake temps much above the ambient temps (except for sitting in traffic without the car moving, they tend to go 15 - 20 degrees above ambient on a hot day).
Mine only runs a 12inch thermo fan and the radiator has nowhere near the frontal surface area that you sprinter guys get and I am yet to get the car too hot (track sessions don't bother it, hills don't bother it, traffics not a problem etc). Just make sure your radiator is in good working order.
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155rwkw, thats impressive Andrew, i drove a similar powered 4agte on the weekend, even that was a handful
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Handful = FUN 
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also what diameter i/c piping is sufficient? just wondering if my current pipes can do the job for the turbo
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My car started out supercharged and in that form it was common knowledge to keep the piping short and not too large. The piping from when it was supercharged has mostly been retained (where possible as it is polished aluminium and costs too much to toss in the bin). So mine is as follows 3 inch pipe from air filter to turbo, 2 inch from compressor housing to intercooler, 2 inch (tapering out to match the size of the throttle body) from intercooler to throttle body. Seems to work fine, but I would go 2.5" instead of 2" if I was starting from scratch.
There are a lot of 4AGTE's around and a lot of questions, a cruise one day of 4AGTE powered vehicles could be cool??
Here is a link to some pics of how mine is set up, since the pics a few more things in the engine bay have been neatened up and the cold air box has been fitted (made in polished aluminium, will get pics up shortly):
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=39171&start=0&rid=204&S=7f5eb3f91b98 ca0171ddbcaa2ce6e661
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 04:58
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Simply awesome mate
A 4AGTE cruise would definately be an idea, that way alot of the questions and comparisons can be answered.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 10:06
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if i knew you were interested in going turbo i would have let you check out my setup at the toyfest.
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Location:
Inside a giant turbo (syd...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 10:55
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i cant wait to get the brand new s15 BBt28 turbo on my car. Does anyone know or have any specs of how these perform or how good a turbo they are?
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Location:
western suburbs,sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 11:24
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yeh.. im using a t28bb on my gze i can't wait to drive her i've just got to get my plumbing done.
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 11:24
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| EVOSTi wrote on Mon, 08 November 2004 21:06 |
if i knew you were interested in going turbo i would have let you check out my setup at the toyfest.
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oh dude, your car was in the carpark right? I was chattin to so many people not sure if i spoke to you or not, but i seen your car before on the cruise i think - would love to see what else you done to it
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 11:28
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Can i ask you guys what you paid for your T28bb's?
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Location:
western suburbs,sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 11:34
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$700 from sss automotive but i reckon i got ripped off!
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 11:46
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Yeah those grimsy bastards eating away on their kebabs while selling you parts  
Was there anything wrong with it? warranty? Seems like a fair price to me unless there is something really dodgy to it
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Location:
western suburbs,sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 11:57
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Na the unit is in perfect condition they're just pricey c*nts they reckon they quote 850 to anyone else but ive spent around 3k there my mate has bought about 10k worth of stuff from them they would have sold the t28bb to him for around 400 its just who you know in this case but yeh its in great condition i hope
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 12:12
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Too true. I once bargained one of them for a genuine Bride seat which was used in his 180sx for track, he wasn't gonna sell it but i kept pushing him making him decide to sell it if i offered good cash, i whacked him down abit but decided it sounded dodgy
i bought about 1K of stuff before, and got em down quite abit, i think they remember me cuz i went back and they gave me a free Sabelt harness, i was just looking for a steering wheel which they didn't have
anyway back to the 4AGTE's, im thinking about relocating my battery cuz i need that space for my intake setup, i'm assuming most of you guys had issues with space around this area? I also heard that low/high mounting the turbo does not really make a difference although i'm leaning toward a slightly low position.
thoughts?
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Location:
western suburbs,sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 12:20
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Ive got mine sitting in line with the rocker covers but i haven't got the motor in yet so i wouldn't be able to help but i reckon i've still have heaps of room even with the battery still in original position but yeh i'd like to fabricate a neat cold air intake setup so i'll probably ditch the battery to the rear.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 12:40
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Alot of the setups i've seen still have the battery in the front. Plus there's also certain legalities about have a boot battery in an ae86 due to the non-sealed hatchback.
$700 is very reasonable for a perfect t28bb. The price of them is pretty inflated though, for what they are.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 14:13
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I have a 4agte..
AE101 4AGZE Block, AE92 Bigport GZE Head
Complete rebuild with new bearings etc (2000ks ago)
ARIAS Forged pistons from US (8.5 C/R), ARP head stud kit ARP rod bolts
Supercharger removed
HKS GT2510 turbo on custom manifold
RWD intake manifold
Custom 3" Dump pipe
3" Mandrel bent exhaust
Haltech E6K ECU
Greddy Profec B EBC
N/A Bigport cams
HKS Cam gears
Stainless intercooler piping
Hybrid type bar + plate intercooler
Bosch Vl turbo fuel pump.
Pierberg lift pump and 1ltr stainless surge tank.
Out of a 3sgte grpa i had in a st162 and a decent horse powered 200sx previouse ride. I prefer this little engine any day very responsive and an awsome note. thanks Alem.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
fairfield NSW
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Mon, 08 November 2004 20:48
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how soon does boost come on for you guys?
i test drove my car yesterday and holy carp, the boost is almost instantaneous....
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Location:
North Shore, NZ
Registered:
April 2003
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Tue, 09 November 2004 05:28
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OHHH niceeee 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Tue, 09 November 2004 05:46
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damn
thats some impressive power
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Tue, 09 November 2004 06:33
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mine made 174KW@W's when the wastegate was fucked. boost was very unstable. since i replaced the actuator a re-tune should put me over the 200KW mark.
its fairly laggy tho.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Tue, 09 November 2004 07:15
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Yeah, i got one. Cant wait till its finished!
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Location:
Wallerawang
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Tue, 09 November 2004 11:59
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Come on boys where's the pics !!!!
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Tue, 09 November 2004 14:23
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I can't understand how everyone can whip together 4AGTEs so quickly! 
I've been building mine up for years & planning it for even longer (well, it seems it), and the bastard's still not finished. 
A bit more detailed info is here:
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&g oto=120&rid=&S=371a9ba9dd69ea86807752aa5f2 c08c8
but basically is rebuilt GZE bottom end, bigport head, HKS GT2510, Autronic, 3" zorst, ARE 'cooler, adj. cam gears, & so on & so forth... if you want more there's the link. ^
I took the ECU in to get a base map yesterday so I can start it up, the only other thing I need is a fuel pump (which is coming with the ecu) and I can give it a test fire & then take it in for a tune, then I can see if all the hard work & hard cash was worth it.
Judging from what everyone here thinks, I'll be a happy little boy! 
And as for a 4AGTE cruise, FUCK YEAH! I'm doing a pretty shit job of being the official cruise dude at the moment, but once my car's back on the road I will probably end up living in it, so there will be cruises aplenty!
Although once my engine's tuned & all running nice I've then gotta get the prick engineered, blue slipped & registered (& I'm not even gonna think about insurance), so I'm not holding my breath...
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Location:
North Shore, NZ
Registered:
April 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
fairfield NSW
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Tue, 09 November 2004 21:14
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| BigWorm wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 01:23 |
I can't understand how everyone can whip together 4AGTEs so quickly!
I've been building mine up for years & planning it for even longer (well, it seems it), and the bastard's still not finished.
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mines taken just over 2 years
jesus some of you guys have some serious power there.
i'd be happy to crack 150rwkw
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Tue, 09 November 2004 22:46
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Bigworm and EVLGTZ, very very impressive
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Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Wed, 10 November 2004 00:33
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i was wondering what kind of fuel economy you 4agte guys get?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
North Shore, NZ
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Wed, 10 November 2004 00:57
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| andrewa wrote on Wed, 10 November 2004 13:33 |
i was wondering what kind of fuel economy you 4agte guys get?
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I get 380-400km from 45 litres on 98 octance with a mix of round town and open road driving on daily boost setting of 1 bar.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Wed, 10 November 2004 09:25
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where/how have you guys run oil feeds and returns?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Wed, 10 November 2004 09:52
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oil feed from the original oil pressure sender hole in the block (via a T-peice) with a return fitting brazed into the side of the sump, as high as possible.
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Location:
Inside a giant turbo (syd...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Wed, 10 November 2004 12:28
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thats how mine goes as well.
whipped up quickly because mines just a stock as 4agze from aw11 mr2, with bolt ons.
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Location:
Rockhampton, Queensland
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Wed, 10 November 2004 12:31
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Hi all,
my gte in my 92 rolla sedan has 205 horses at the front wheels.
I am using a 13B rotary turbo. 3 inch exhaust, yada yada yada.
running at 20psi.
Cheers!
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Wed, 10 November 2004 13:37
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Here's a couple of pics of mine from Toyota Fest, courtesy of Paul/Lucid.
I don't know why, but for some reason Pauls camera always makes my car look almost pink..... 
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
February 2003
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Wed, 10 November 2004 14:41
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Damn, I wanna get mine on the road & running like optionUP's!
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Thu, 11 November 2004 06:00
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well maybe yours is taking so long cause your building it up to show car standard? mine took a coupla months, coulda knocked it over MUCH quicker if i wasnt so damn lazy. but it helps beeing an app mechanic i spose
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Thu, 11 November 2004 06:44
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Sweet pics fellas.
Now for the big questions.
What flywheels are you guys using, and where do you get your clutch from? There seems to be issues with finding a decent pressure plate for the GE flywheel that has enough clamp, even after being modified by reputable workshops. Mine is off the road at the moment for this reason (again!)
Phil
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Thu, 11 November 2004 09:03
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it's not flash, but so far it's doing ok.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Thu, 11 November 2004 10:42
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i can hardly picture whats going on in that bay - boot!!
when you AW11 owners first got your cars, did it seem strange to work on your boot? LOL
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Location:
Inside a giant turbo (syd...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Thu, 11 November 2004 11:27
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nah, its that bad at all really. i dont find it much harder than my old gte sprinter, but it is funny when your putting bags or what not in your frunk (front trunk) and people are giving you looks like WTF!
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Thu, 11 November 2004 13:29
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| TE72_Turbo wrote on Thu, 11 November 2004 19:46 |
Wow. That looks like fun to work on! Makes me appreciate a front engine, RWD car, theres so much more room!
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it's actualy a very user friendly engine bay.
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[EDIT] I just noticed that you run TWO inlet valve covers! I'd laugh, except that I've done the same myself Did you find issues with letting blow-by gasses escape too? One 12mm breather just doesn't seem to be enough hey.
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never had any trouble with blow-by.
ae86slaver, there still is a boot behind the engine bay.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Thu, 11 November 2004 13:53
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| Quote: |
never had any trouble with blow-by
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So why the two breathers then?
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Thu, 11 November 2004 14:17
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So you do have some concerns about excess pressure from blowby then
Anything you can do to increase crankcase ventilation is worthwhile. I was planning to remove & weld up the second oil filler from mine though, to stop people asking me why I had two I just told them it was to ensure an even amount of oil in each side of the engine
Cheers
Phil
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Fri, 12 November 2004 01:42
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hey off topic.. any one had a tailshaft knock on the underbody of the 86?? generally happens underload?? its not a thumping noise but more of a loud rubbing?? anyone?? started after lowered springs installed, but had happened before...
i was wondering if was a common problem or if it just mine... if it does happen how do you fix? beat in the tunnel or what?
any help would be good?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Fri, 12 November 2004 02:08
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Centre bearing shagged? We had a dull knock on Glens MA61 when his went.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Fri, 12 November 2004 02:49
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ok boys, a few questions.
specifically,
throttle bodies - what are using? the standard sized ones from a 4age? i've heard that these can develop some play (e.g. tilt the butterfly 10 degrees and move side to side) that can bugger the throttle position sensor regularly. ken streeter told me to use a 3sgte body as it bolts straight on with only a little "boring out" of the inlet manifold required. has anyone used an sr20 throttle body?
itlet manifold - i've got a fwd 4age one sitting here that will obviously require cutting the ends off and swapping them for the rwd format. i'm guessing a rwd jap sprinter manifold would be the best option, but does any one know where i can pick one up and what the cost would be?
lastly, coils - has anyone tried doing a individual coil pack set up, using coils from an sr20 or similar (obviously, you would need an appropriate computer)?
any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Fri, 12 November 2004 04:56
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| white86 wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 13:49 |
ok boys, a few questions.
specifically,
throttle bodies - what are using? the standard sized ones from a 4age? i've heard that these can develop some play (e.g. tilt the butterfly 10 degrees and move side to side) that can bugger the throttle position sensor regularly. ken streeter told me to use a 3sgte body as it bolts straight on with only a little "boring out" of the inlet manifold required. has anyone used an sr20 throttle body?
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I've heard good stories about the 3sgte throttle body, ask drift86levin, he's proven some results with this mod and recommends it.
| white86 wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 13:49 |
inlet manifold - i've got a fwd 4age one sitting here that will obviously require cutting the ends off and swapping them for the rwd format. i'm guessing a rwd jap sprinter manifold would be the best option, but does any one know where i can pick one up and what the cost would be?
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The RWD jap ones are becoming a dime a dozen these days, you would be lucky to find one in an importing yard let alone one that is here for sale. Cut and shutting the FWD manifold just means more fuckin around
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Who has a 4agte?
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Fri, 12 November 2004 05:00
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On coils: later version of 4AGZE's (out of FWD AE92's and AE101's) had a twin coil set-up. Could be worth looking around for one of those.
I have also heard of someone using the coilpacks off a Hyundai Excel for a 4AGTE (I think).
I am still using a dizzy myself, although the plan is to go with coil packs some time down the track...
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