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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 08:03
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Hey, I heard a rumour yesterday that you can no longer import/comply cars with popup headlights... can anyone confirm this, or call BS on it?
If true it'd be great for all of us with mk3 supras, older mr2s (or both  ) since supply suddenly goes way down. Getting parts is gonna be (even more of) a bitch though.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 08:15
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thats bs id say
but new cars in aus cannot have them
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 08:27
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hahhahahahahhahahah
what kind of bs is this?
does that mean all aus cars with pop up head lights have to be taken off the road?
As long as there are still cars with pop up headlights here, then I don't see why it can be problem.
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 09:00
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that is honestly THE DUMBEST rule i have ever heard  even dumber than the 130km/h limiting on cars 
whoever make this bs up MUST be shot 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 09:31
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what a dodgy ass rule
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Location:
Hobart
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:02
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why would pop-ups be of any concern ? all they do is pop up and look neat
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:19
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As I said, I'm sceptical about this myself, that's why I posted it. The new rule as I heard it applies to cars being imported (regardless of age) - I very much doubt they'd try and put all cars with popups off the road, they're just trying to limit the number of new (to Australia) cars on the road. Something about popups killing pedestrians... who obviously shouldn't be on the road anyway. 
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:20
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Because when people hit pop up headlights it hurts.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:22
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so explain to me the roobar legality?
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:22
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If this idea has anything to do with Mr Scruby then I'm definitely going to go buy a sword, and start sharpening it.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:23
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Thankgod theyre getting rid of those dangerous popupheadlights i feel much safer taking my chances with the bullbars 
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:26
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Well you can bounce off of roo bars, so they must be safe.
Right?
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Location:
NSW, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:27
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i'm sure the ruling now is that no car can be designed with pop up headlights due to some bs about having an accident
but that doesn't mean old cars with pop up headlights can't be registered and shit
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:36
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Interesting isn't it?
Then why are Ferrari, Lamborghini, Corvette and other high end sports cars still being imported?
Don't tell me the government is going to be prejudice to the average Joe who wants a sports car?
Cheers.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 10:42
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That's it, I think it's time we start calling for legislation demanding that pedestrians wear HANS devices and helmets whenever they are within five metres of a road. If it's necessary for us car owners and drivers to take on some responsibility, then why don't we share it around! Surely it's irresponsible and deplorable to be even CLOSE to a road without the proper safety equipment so as to avoid further trauma and death on our roads. We must tackle this problem head on, VIVA LA REVOLUZIONE!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 11:16
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oi pedestrians i dont drive on the footpath, so dont walk on tha goddam road
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 22:37
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I'd like to see the stats and evidence that proves they are dangerous. Did they crash test pedestrian dummies against popups and compare it to normal cars? What are the odds of getting hit by a car with it's popups up? Compare that against the odds of getting hit by a "SUV" with or without a bullbar. Every second car seems to be a 4wd sorry "suv".
I don't think I'll tape my lights down just yet. Could be good for us people dreading the drop in our car values when the 15 years is up on imports (assuming that it effects imports only). Sept 2006 for ST185 CS.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 22:40
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Just when i was about to do a soapra conversion on my car
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 22:46
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UGH you fools
The new ruling as I understand it, is no NEW(read it, yes.. it sais new.. as in hasnt been made/designed yet, got it?) can be released(for the 1st time) in aus with pop up head lights, they are trying to phase them out(even though it will take like 25 yrs). When someone gets hit with a set of pop ups out at a higher speed, instead of just going over the hood, it rips them to shreds..
Importing cars with pop ups is fine..
as long as the car with pop ups were made before the ruling.
They have the same ruling in japan now, thats why the current model NSX lost its pop ups
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Sun, 14 November 2004 22:52
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I stand by the fact that bull bars and SUVs in general do more damage.
Personal opinion? you should have to show proof that you live in a country area or regularly go 4wd-ing to get a bull-bar - get all those hormonal soccer mums into something a little less dangerous.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 01:47
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The point is pedestrians shouldn't be getting hit by cars in the first place. It's a pretty unco-ordinated thing to do.
I don't know how high a speed you are talking about Jag7799, but really as soon as someone is hit at about 50km/h+ they are either dead or probably disabled for life. Being 'cut up' is probably going to be the least of their worries compared to say spinal/neck injury - although admittedly blood loss and internal trauma could cause complications (ie loss of oxygen to the brain, permanent brain damage etc).
Seriously, how far are we willing to go to make cars safe? At the moment we live in a serious paradox, we want to make cars safe, but we don't want to sacrifice the convenience of risk (ie higher speed travel). So we keep coming up with pissweak band-aid solutions that don't change anything. Example look at how heavy a car is these days - because of 'safety' features these things regularly tip the scales at 1200+kg even for a little 5 door hatchback.
Do you have any idea how much that extra momentum is going to screw a pedestrian up? Even with 'crumple' zones (which do sweet FA in regards to pedestrian safety they are designed to reduce impulse forces in the case of car-car collision only, or maybe car-elephant), the pedestrian is going to get bounced off into next week, or orbit. (well actually it's more likely that the pedestrian's internals will absorb the impact resulting in them being 'crushed', meanwhile the 'body' will simply roll off the bonnet when the car finally comes to rest, but I wouldn't want to scare anyone)
If we REALLY wanted to do something about road safety then we would all be wearing helmets when driving (facial and cranial injuries constitute the majority of injuries in accidents) we would be wearing harnesses (and sacrifice rear seating capacity), nomex driving suits and as pedestrians we would wear full leathers, helment, HANS device and skidders on elbows on knees so that when we do get hit we have half a chance of surviving as a vegetable.
But the fact of the matter is, no one wants to change anything because it's all too "inconvenient". Even getting aome advanced driver training is too out of the way for most of us (I can't talk in that regard, I've never had any!)
Having said all this, I don't think pop-up headlights are that cool anyway. It's just annoying me that this is how we improve road safety. I mean this rule is going to make 1 in a 1000 (or some other large number, let's say 100) accidents 'less fatal'. Okay, maybe if I asked the family of that 1 in a 100th accident if it was worthwhile I would probably get an affirmative answer, but I still feel sorry for the 99 other familes who get shafted by complacant motoring/governing authorities.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Toymods member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Rydalmere, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 03:18
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*AGREE THOROUGHLY WITH FRACTOID'S EDIT*
Look out, coming through in my SUV with a glorified bullbar (ok it's a light bar) and pedestrian-killing LightForce 170mm spotties!! What a farce.
As has already been said, it ain't gonna make a shit's worth of difference if someone has a set of pop-up headlights or a nudge-bar, or even a full Carmageddon-esque spiked offensive on the front of their car. WHO CARES!! The government sure as hell doesn't, that's blatantly obvious... the people whom it employs, who would be nothing more than little old men who be way too overqualified to hold any civilian position wearing coke-bottle-thick glasses and no hair, "working" in the very dark recesses of an office without an inkling of an idea of how humans and cars interact, that take public transport to and from work.... they just have no idea. Regardless of who they are, what they look like or what they do to screw us drivers over, they'll never understand that driver training is an investment worth having. Scare tactics and multi-million-dollar campaigns at the Easter holidays make not a shit difference to the road toll for that space of time - it does matter who's on the road and who is so stupid that they should NOT be. I don't know what the police and RTA think we're thinking of when we drive a car, that the ad campaign they spend our hard earned $$$ on has any effect on us while we're driving and that it's secretly in the back of our mind, sorry we're too busy focusing on the road and other stupid drivers for that. 
I think I'll have to rice up my car with some spikes.  They think having a car with pop-up headlights is more dangerous than ones without, I got a bit of info for ya... if your number is up, it's up. Nothing in the world can change it.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 03:19
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im not ont he side of this law or anything.. but im just stating
imagine someone going up a bonnet at 60 km/h without pop ups.. rolled up the body, still hurt
now add some pop ups.. when they roll up the hood, the arch of the back hits the pop up where as rest of body keeps trying to go, you've just broken your back in 2 places 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 03:53
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| Jag7799 wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 11:19 |
im not ont he side of this law or anything.. but im just stating
imagine someone going up a bonnet at 60 km/h without pop ups.. rolled up the body, still hurt
now add some pop ups.. when they roll up the hood, the arch of the back hits the pop up where as rest of body keeps trying to go, you've just broken your back in 2 places
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Umm... if you get hit more than a very glancing blow at 60km/h, you are DEAD. If you fall off a 14 meter high cliff, you'll be doing 60km/h at the bottom. If I'd just fallen 14 meters I don't think I'd particularly care whether I was landing on a smooth bonnet, a bullbar or a popup headlight. I'd be too busy dying from internal injuries and massive trauma.
Of course, if you assume the car is doing 20km/h when it hits the pedestrian, then sure, I can see popups doing more damage than not. But again, if you get run over by a car doing 20 then the universe has just noticed that you can't swim and ordered you to get out of the gene pool.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 06:03
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euro rules have banned hop-up lights for all new cars as of 2007 ? (correct me on date)
but they are defianntly gone.. look at all cars on the market what has pop ups.. C5 Corvette is the last thing i can tyhink of with them. and now thats supersceeded by the C6 which dosent have popups.
thats said i was of the belief that old cars being complianced had to conform to the appropriate saftey standards as of their date of manufacture. so your 1993 st185 with hop up lights will have to conform to saftey standards of 1993 which allows pop up lights.
to my knowledge NOTHING is made with pop ups anymore as they wont be able to be sold in europe as or 2007 and i think most other areas are following suit around that time too. so it'd be silly of a manufacturer to build a new car they can only sell for 2 years before needing a major redesign. even the exotics which have had hop up lights for many years dont have them now.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 07:26
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it's all so dumb.
popups are cool, dammit!
I can think of other things for the goverment to stress about
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 07:59
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why don't we all just buy foam cars
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 08:02
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| jackel wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 15:59 |
why don't we all just buy foam cars
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What, and have the chassis strength akin to that of an AE86, I think not.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 08:02
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yeah I reckon
or start strapping pillows to the outside of our cars
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 08:14
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Ide rather be pinned against a stoby by a bull bar than have the entire car wrapped around me. Pop ups are cool!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 08:23
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Couldn't they make popups pedestrian friendly? Couldn't they make them so they collapse backwards in a cushionee kind of way when something similar to a pedestrian wacks them? There are so many other things that they should also look at. I guess if europe are banning popups then Oz has to follow, not that we make any (that i'm aware of).
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 09:20
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| Hawk wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 19:23 |
Couldn't they make popups pedestrian friendly? Couldn't they make them so they collapse backwards in a cushionee kind of way when something similar to a pedestrian wacks them? There are so many other things that they should also look at. I guess if europe are banning popups then Oz has to follow, not that we make any (that i'm aware of).
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ive never seen a car that pop ups look better on than a good set of planned headlights
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 09:25
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and popups aren't "planned"???? HUH??
my popup lights are offended, and proabably won't come up now
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 10:36
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| Jag7799 wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 17:20 |
ive never seen a car that pop ups look better on than a good set of planned headlights
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You couldn't get the nice lines of an MA61 without popups.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 11:11
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 21:36 |
| Jag7799 wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 17:20 |
ive never seen a car that pop ups look better on than a good set of planned headlights
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You couldn't get the nice lines of an MA61 without popups.
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yes you could.. just use the original holes for some normal lights
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 11:13
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heres the nsx example
old pop up light model
new lights, though not best angle
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 11:21
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i like the MA61 pop-ups...
also popups seem to get headlights in low-slung cars at a much better angle (up higher facing out and down) to the road - than if the same low-slung car had lights tucked into the front bar/guards...
OR.... maybe we could have cars made of nurf foam so i could deliberately crash into wankers without hurting myself.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 11:47
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I knew that example would come up, personally I feel they look kinda ugly.
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Location:
Ballarat, Victoria
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 12:03
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| draven wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 09:52 |
I stand by the fact that bull bars and SUVs in general do more damage.
Personal opinion? you should have to show proof that you live in a country area or regularly go 4wd-ing to get a bull-bar - get all those hormonal soccer mums into something a little less dangerous.
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LOL soccer mums, what a perfect mental image
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Mon, 15 November 2004 12:35
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| Quote: |
Umm... if you get hit more than a very glancing blow at 60km/h, you are DEAD. If you fall off a 14 meter high cliff, you'll be doing 60km/h at the bottom. If I'd just fallen 14 meters I don't think I'd particularly care whether I was landing on a smooth bonnet, a bullbar or a popup headlight. I'd be too busy dying from internal injuries and massive trauma.
Of course, if you assume the car is doing 20km/h when it hits the pedestrian, then sure, I can see popups doing more damage than not. But again, if you get run over by a car doing 20 then the universe has just noticed that you can't swim and ordered you to get out of the gene pool.
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ROFL - that's the funniest thing I've read all day...and so true as well
Someone downsize that massif pic, I'm getting ticked having to scroll to read every post.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Tue, 16 November 2004 00:37
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| Jag7799 wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 19:11 |
| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 21:36 |
| Jag7799 wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 17:20 |
ive never seen a car that pop ups look better on than a good set of planned headlights
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You couldn't get the nice lines of an MA61 without popups.
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yes you could.. just use the original holes for some normal lights
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I think someone has pop-up envy
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Tue, 16 November 2004 00:39
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And putting normal lights in original holes is considered 'planned' is it?
Its not just a cheap bandaid fix to enable the car to be legal?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Tue, 16 November 2004 00:42
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| CrUZsida wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 11:39 |
And putting normal lights in original holes is considered 'planned' is it?
Its not just a cheap bandaid fix to enable the car to be legal?
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no.. but what i mean is, i dont like pop up lights anwyay, id rather a set of normal lights..
Feral MR2's car is a good example too
pop up lights look great, when down.. when up they look ghey
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
Albion Park, NSW
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Tue, 16 November 2004 07:39
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| fractoid wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 14:53 |
Umm... if you get hit more than a very glancing blow at 60km/h, you are DEAD. If you fall off a 14 meter high cliff, you'll be doing 60km/h at the bottom. If I'd just fallen 14 meters I don't think I'd particularly care whether I was landing on a smooth bonnet, a bullbar or a popup headlight. I'd be too busy dying from internal injuries and massive trauma.
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Well, I agree that this law is a pretty poor attempt at reducing pedestrian injuries, that there are many more higher risk items that should be addressed well before popup and that if a pedestrian is being hit then someone has stuffed up already and that's what should really be fixed. However I would have to disagree with the equation being as simple as being hit at 60 means your dead.
Taking the cliff analogy, if you fall 14 meters onto rocks then yes, you're stuffed. But if you where falling into water then the issue becomes how you hit. If you hit it flat then you're still stuffed, on the other hand if you actually do a proper dive you walk away.
It's not about how fast you are going but how quickly you slow down. Back to the case of being hit by a car, it's how quickly you are brought up to the speed of the car.
If you hit a large flat frontal area, like a bus or 4WD then it's just like hitting the water flat, you're stuffed. On the other hand you hit a bonnet and assuming worst case and the car doesn't actually slow down you'll roll up over the whole car. Not only is the time to be brought up to speed increased significantly but you also never actually reach 60 km/h so the impact on your body is far less. The closest case I have to experiencing this is coming off a bicycle at a speed somewhere between 60 and 70 km/h. I hit the road which has to be less forgiving than sheet metal and glass yet was able to carry the bike (which was totaled) home suffering bruising, grazing and carpet burn from my clothes. So the human body can definitely survive an impact from that speed receiving only recoverable injuries.
However, add something flat in the way over the car to stop one part of the body suddenly and that part is broken. So instead of receiving recoverable injuries someone just got a broken back.
However, as I said before I think that popups would only be a small risk item in terms of numbers of incidents. Probably in a similar figure to say hood ornaments like a Jag or Rolls Royce have. I would think even the addition of roo or bullbars to a 4WD would cause little more injuries than the already large flat area of the 4WD would be doing. The other big issue with 4WDs, etc is the height. Chances are you're going to be hit above your center of gravity and go under the vehicle and being run over is always going to be bad.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Tue, 16 November 2004 09:19
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I think that's a little overly simple. The BEST case scenario is rolling over the entire car - chances of that happening are fairly remote though.
I think you are failing to take into account the force related to the twisting moment as your head slams into the bonnet! Seeing as the axis of revolution is around about knee or upper thigh height (for an adult) you will find that your head will generally slam extremely fast into the bonnet, and generally at such an angle to cause neck/spinal injuries and with enough force to cause severe enough brain trauma that could result in death.
Also I don't think you are taking into account the difference in materials used for the front of a 4WD vehicle and a bull bar. Chances are a bull bar will absorb little or no energy of the impact via deformation or flexing/heat, that is why they are dangerous, the impulse related to the collision is much much shorter than when you hit some plastics and sheet metal. When the impulse gets shorter and shorter, and more energy is being transferred to the pedestrian, you will notice that it hurts a crapload more.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Tue, 16 November 2004 09:44
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| FWDboy wrote on Tue, 16 November 2004 17:19 |
I think that's a little overly simple. The BEST case scenario is rolling over the entire car - chances of that happening are fairly remote though.
I think you are failing to take into account the force related to the twisting moment as your head slams into the bonnet! Seeing as the axis of revolution is around about knee or upper thigh height (for an adult) you will find that your head will generally slam extremely fast into the bonnet, and generally at such an angle to cause neck/spinal injuries and with enough force to cause severe enough brain trauma that could result in death.
Also I don't think you are taking into account the difference in materials used for the front of a 4WD vehicle and a bull bar. Chances are a bull bar will absorb little or no energy of the impact via deformation or flexing/heat, that is why they are dangerous, the impulse related to the collision is much much shorter than when you hit some plastics and sheet metal. When the impulse gets shorter and shorter, and more energy is being transferred to the pedestrian, you will notice that it hurts a crapload more.
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Uh-oh, mechanical engineer alert!  this is starting to bring back my dynamics lectures... He speaks truth though, if your legs get whacked out from under you at 60, chances are you're going to be spun around fast enough that you'll leave a head-shaped dent in the bonnet. Helmets should be compulsory for all pedestrians.
The whole thing with impulses is also important - you know how computer hard drives are rated at some ridiculously high accelerations (100s of Gs)? Well, that acceleration only occurs over the deflection distance of the casing (bugger all, on the order of microns) and so that big impressive number boils down to 'if you drop it from 2 foot, it'll break'. Same thing applies here. A collision with total deflection (your head + bonnet) of 20mm is going to do 1/2 the damage of a collision with total deflection (your head + bullbar) of 10mm.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Tue, 16 November 2004 13:59
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| Quote: |
Uh-oh, mechanical engineer alert!
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Haha - actually I'm just a fanboy of mechanical engineers Maybe when I cbfed studying again I'll start laying claim to the title!
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Location:
Albion Park, NSW
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Wed, 17 November 2004 06:34
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The issue related to the twisting moment can be a valid argument but it depends on how you're hit. The human body is not a stiff thing and there is a great deal of flexability in the hips. So you need to take into account how much impact is taken by the legs and the joints to work out how much you are spun into the bonnet. That's assuming the pedestrian hasn't seen the car coming and tried to jump out of the way, in which case they can miss the bumper entirely and go straight onto the bonnet.
By worst case I was reffering to the car not slowing. If the car was slowing then firstly, you aren't hit at the full speed, and if it slows enough you won't go over, you'll roll back down. In this case you will have suffered less impact than the car not stopping where you keep going over the top. If you go over a car doing 60 that keeps going you will go over the top and this has to be worse than being hit by the car slowing down enough for you to not roll the whole way over.
I wasn't trying to say that you'll definately survive but rather that it depends on how you hit, that there is a reasonable chance and that you may possibly be suprised by the number of people that do survive being hit by a car.
And with the 4wd with or without roobars issue, the difference we're talking is in ms, not enough to make much difference to a person at that speed. Also that you will most likely go under a 4WD means that even in more low speed accidents they pose a far greater threat. Add that there are a signifigant number of 4WDs being driven through built up areas and the risk factor of being hit by a 4WD as opposed to the family sedan that could probably replace it for what use it's getting then the greatest reduction in pedestrian injuries could be achieved there. By comparison banning roo bars, or pop up headlights is nothing more than a dissmal attempt to make it look like something is being done, it will achieve a little but if they where serious then there's better places to start.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Wed, 17 November 2004 07:01
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OK, here's a random idea that sounds stupid until you realize it's exactly how the government works: They're banning popups, not bullbars, because popups cause messier casualties than bullbars. You get hit by a car with popups, and if it hits you wrong you're gonna redecorate your surroundings with red stuff. You get hit by a car with a bullbar, you're gonna look not much different, just be a bit squishier. Either way you don't care because you're dead, but you can guess which one will be on the news causing an outcry against 'dangerous cars'.
Farken bandaid government.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Wed, 17 November 2004 07:13
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Back to the point - what we are talking about is collisions that occur at 60km/h, not collisions that occur when the car was at one stage in it's life time travelling at 60km/h and a pedestrian got hit at a lower speed. The best case scenario if you are hit by a car going a steady 60km/h (for example doing something stupid like walking out from behind a bus that is kerbside whilst not looking to your right and getting totally cleaned up) is that you will roll over the entire car.
Obviously there are better scenarios - like the guy braking - but then that wouldn't exactly be a 60km/h collision.
I wouldn't be surprised at the number of pedestrians that survive being hit by a car - but the number that survive when hit by a car going 60km/h would be a very unremarkable number.
And if the number of pedestrians surviving is so good, then why the fuck do we care about pop-up headlights
Also, going under a 4WD is not as bad as going under a lamborghini. Furthermore, the surface area of a roo bar is definitely smaller than the surface area of a front grill. Bull bars are MUCH deadlier than you are making them out to be! They are designed to basically 'do nothing' and ensure that the car doesn't get damaged, much to the chagrin of the now-dead pedestrian/roo/etc.
Having said that, I totally agree - banning pop-up headlights is clearly a pointless political show-ponying exercise.
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Location:
Albion Park, NSW
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Thu, 18 November 2004 06:33
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Are we talking about being hit at 60 or people being hit by cars in gerneral? I though 60 was chosen as the maximum speed limit applying in most cases where pedestrians are hit?
Anyway, I think we agree on most things other than the point at which there is a reasonable chance of survival. The only was of really knowing that is with some reliable statistics which would be hard to obtain because we aren't generally measuring the speed pedestrians get hit at and even the driver will only have an idea of the speed they where doing before they saw the pedestrian and hit the brakes.
So on the couple of other smaller points, yes you'll likely do more damage going under a sports car than a 4WD but unless you're lying on the ground your most likely going to go over a sports car as the impact is going to be below you're centre of gravity and the frontal area is too small to catch and stop you. The chances of going under the 4WD are far greater and therefore the risk of sustaining the greater injury of going under the 4WD as opposed to over the sports car is also much greater. It's all a numbers game.
As for the bullbars being much deadlier, it comes back to our point of where people will survive. You say it's highly unlikely to survive being hit by anything, including a family sedan, so nothing is deadlier than that. I'm saying that there's a reasonable chance against a family sedan but little chance against a 4WD and that my point of reasonable chance of survival has been passed. Anything beyond that point becomes irrelevant.
I'd also like to say it has been a pleasure debating with someone who is able to keep producing reasonable, logical and thought out replies. Keep up the good work.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Thu, 18 November 2004 12:27
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i would presume that there isnt many pedestrians on the road at night. so it is presumable that most pedestrians are hit during the day.
Pop up lights arent poped up during the day. So whats the difference??
another thing is that most pop up light cars have a sharper front. in an event where a person is hit, it would be easier for this person to roll over a car, meaning less impact as opposed being hit by something flat and flying 10 metres forward.
Also, lights are located at the edges. If a person is hit at middle of the car, person should miss the headlights. if hit at the side, person should slide away frm the car as opposed to leaving a head dent on the bonet.
I could go on and start with engineering stuff like moment of impact, moment of inertia etc...but just after exams and cant be bothered!!
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Thu, 18 November 2004 16:18
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Actually that's a good point about deadliness...I mean it's kind of a binary thing, once you're dead, there's not exactly 'more dead' than dead.
Well from now on I'm going to wear a helmet when I'm close to the road.
Yep.
Starting tomorrow...
*cough* *cough*
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
south Melbourne/KL
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Thu, 18 November 2004 17:47
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im gonna save up and get recaro or bride seats for safety of ppl in car as well
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Thu, 18 November 2004 22:15
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It is just the governments small penis syndrome showing up again.
If they want to ban pop up headlights on new imports then go for it... more spare parts for us!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Thu, 18 November 2004 22:54
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We can't blame the australian government, they are just following what the rest of the world is doing. Standard headlights are getting smaller and smaller anyway, plus popups are a bit dated. I do think that in the future cars may have air bags on the front bumper to reduce injury to pedestrians. It will come in with the whole camera hooked up to a computer watching for dangerous traffic conditions. They already have software that can pick out individual people walking across the road in front of a car. They just have to hook it up like current airbags. (stupid) pedestrian too close in front of car = automatic emergency breaking; not stopping in time, about to contact front of car = deploy airbags.
My vision of the future, it won't happen over night but it will happen.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Thu, 18 November 2004 23:23
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Just stoopid if you ask me... Pop-ups are seriously not dangerous. ESp in day, when most ppl have their pop-ups down... And at night, if a dumb pedestrian cannot see a set up poped-up headlights while going on the road, then seriously the guy/girl should just be good as dead as they cannot see anyway.
HOwever, i do agree with the point where in the most UNLIKELY case that a pedestrian is dumb enouhg to run out to the center of the lane ...at night... and gets hit by a pop-up at 60km/h then it could prove more messy and deadlier than just a plain light car.
But seriously, i'd really really love to see the fact sheet of how many % of pedestrian actually gets fatal injuries from a pop-up headlight's car. I'd dare to say you'd be lucky to see more than 1% of all accidents.
But thinking in terms of car manufacture, it'll prolly cost less to maintain a car without pop-ups than one with.... lol yesterday i was trying to replace the globes in my headlights, i ended up having to take off 8 screws and 3 plates for one of my pop-ups...
But seriously in terms of accidents and that... its just total BS... serious TOTAL bs.
just a thought thoug, Perhaps those 'impact absorbin' bumpers could trigger the pop-ups to eject 45 deg sidways at 200km/hr to a hight of say 10m .. and make them parachute down so no idot standing watching the lights could get hit ROFL!! i know it wont happen, but what the hell!>
Chopin
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: popup headlights no longer allowed?
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Thu, 18 November 2004 23:27
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| Quote: |
We can't blame the australian government, they are just following what the rest of the world is doing. Standard headlights are getting smaller and smaller anyway, plus popups are a bit dated. I do think that in the future cars may have air bags on the front bumper to reduce injury to pedestrians. It will come in with the whole camera hooked up to a computer watching for dangerous traffic conditions. They already have software that can pick out individual people walking across the road in front of a car. They just have to hook it up like current airbags. (stupid) pedestrian too close in front of car = automatic emergency breaking; not stopping in time, about to contact front of car = deploy airbags.
My vision of the future, it won't happen over night but it will happen.
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Yep i agree, perhaps 2040+ we dont even need to 'drive' as its all automatic... and all cars will look the same, all cars will proolly be a big cushion with a tea table inside ROFL... if i had to drive a car with cameras scanning for dangerous activity, i'd feel like i'm being watched every sec too... best bet is that police will have access to these cameras... i dont like that!.. Also, a camera sees what a human can see, works on LOS [line of sight] so i dont think... (thats just me) that it can do much good anyway.
~Chopin
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