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Registered:
August 2002
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How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Fri, 19 November 2004 22:34
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I want my car to be 100% road legal, emissions safe and hassle free including registration time. It currently is in this state, however the next phase of modifications when it comes off the road will take it out of this realm.
What i need to ask is, a standalone ecu (in my case a microtech LTX-12s), can it be engineered in some way shape or form without doing it in a dodgy manner?
I really don't want to go dodgy, but Greddy E-manage is about as good as it gets to use as in intercepter it would seem if this is not possible.
Ideas, solutions, stories?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Fri, 19 November 2004 23:53
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Dale (10sec rx7) has mentioned the later microtechs actually fit in the standard ecu housings.
So rip the guts out and place your ltx in the stock cpu housing 
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 00:14
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| EvilJack wrote on Sat, 20 November 2004 10:53 |
Dale (10sec rx7) has mentioned the later microtechs actually fit in the standard ecu housings.
So rip the guts out and place your ltx in the stock cpu housing
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I think he said NOT dodgy 
I can't see there being a problem with getting it fitted then get an emissions test to make sure it is ok. If it isn't, give it a tune until it is.
It doesn't do much else besides that so if that is not legal then that seems pretty bloody stupid to me.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 00:14
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he also said
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Ideas, solutions, stories?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 00:27
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suppose there is more than one way to skin a cat hey
*back on topic*
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 00:51
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Rex too has this dilemma, And although the Motec is emissions capable (not sure about the Microtech though). It depends wholly on the tuner.
In SA we have an emissions Lab which can pass/fail a car according to the ADR/EURO drive cycle standards.
However its approx $2000 pass or fail. A cunt yes, but if its $2000 once to ensure there are no problems then begrudgingly so be it. The hard thing is crafting out the settings which are guaranteed to work so you dont have to have several $2000 attempts.
An emissions certified aftermarket ECU, mut also be locked, usually (password or mutilation) so that it cant be re-tuned. But get friendly with you tuner and he/she (ha!) will probably just unlock it for you afterwards.
Rex is trying to negotiate if being a pre ADR37 car he can get his Motec passed by a simple 4/5 gas test. As TSA holds all the cards though it is unlikely.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 00:53
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Rexs other option is to hide it very well and leave the stock box in there with a dummy loom.
Silly really as the Turbocharger and throttles are hardly standard its unlikely any policeman'll miss them...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 01:06
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yep, same rules for nsw - cant have aftermarket ecu's unless it's the "lockable" motec.
buy yourself a trashed ecu and house the microtech in it.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 02:00
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RING AN ENGINEER!
My computer (GM Delco) is engineered (as well as my pod filter).
If you get it "tuned" and its putting out bad emissions, then its probably not tuned properly!
To get mine done, I had to get an emissions test done, I don't think much else actually.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 02:36
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most engineers simple wont pass a car with a tunable ecu - passing emissions isn't the problem.
btw pete - who's your engineer?
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 03:14
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go to another engineer
i know afew that dont care as long as u past the the emissions of the car it came out of
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 07:05
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| draven wrote on Sat, 20 November 2004 13:36 |
btw pete - who's your engineer?
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Phil Scott (Phil Scott Automotive Consulting)
I picked him out of the book, he's definately not one of the "dodgy" ones. I consulted him before, during and then after the conversion and then he came and checked everything off.
From my report:
"The 1UZ fuel and ignition systems and an aftermarket air cleaner assembly have been fitted with this engine. The engine management system is a Delco pre-programmed unit. When tested the exhaust emmission readings were found to be within the specifications of the applicable ADR."
Maybe because its a "pre-programmed unit" thats how it got through.
At any rate. My original comment still stands - RING AN ENGINEER!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 07:22
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I'm going to - i just want to find one that will pass my car on emissions, not ecu control
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 11:09
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Your states suck!
If that is the case, I would be doing the dodgy method.
Also, re dodgy engineers: why would you care? if they are dodgy and they pass you, then you are now legal in the eyes of a police officer. Is this not what you are after?
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 11:25
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| Chris Davey wrote on Sat, 20 November 2004 22:09 |
Also, re dodgy engineers: why would you care? if they are dodgy and they pass you, then you are now legal in the eyes of a police officer. Is this not what you are after?
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Yeah but are you legal in the eyes of your insurance company?
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 11:34
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My step dad is building a fairly impressive conformadore, 6.3L supercharged. The engineer will pass all of his mods engine, transmission, blower, brakes etc but wont pass the haltech ECU.
Realistically any computer that has been custom tuned (properly) will pass emissions as well as a mass produced factory computer will.
As far as I know a lot of guys with commondoors are hiding the aftermarket ECU and leaving the stock one with a dummy loom. The RTA are aware of this little trick. I've heard if they suspect it they will unplug the dummy loom and see if your car still starts (which it will). The workaround is to earth your aftermarket ECU through the dummy loom of the factory ECU. So when the RTA inspector unplugs your dummy ECU loom the earth for the aftermarket ECU is unplugged aswell.
hope that helps someone.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 15:35
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or better yet, hide the mtech inside a standard ecu case, with minor mods to the back, and if they unplug tat it will definitly not start
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sat, 20 November 2004 20:21
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yeah I guess if your standards are low enough to use a motec
..nah I'm just jokin. But not all aftermarket ecu's will fit inside the case of the factory one.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 04:26
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mtech being microtech, sorry for confusion (referring to earlier mention in this thread of ltx12 fitting in standard case)
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 06:03
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| Chris Davey wrote on Sat, 20 November 2004 11:14 |
| EvilJack wrote on Sat, 20 November 2004 10:53 |
Dale (10sec rx7) has mentioned the later microtechs actually fit in the standard ecu housings.
So rip the guts out and place your ltx in the stock cpu housing
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I think he said NOT dodgy
I can't see there being a problem with getting it fitted then get an emissions test to make sure it is ok. If it isn't, give it a tune until it is.
It doesn't do much else besides that so if that is not legal then that seems pretty bloody stupid to me.
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An aftermarket ECU can only be engineered, a) Once it is tuned to meet emmisions, b) "Locked" after the tune...
The locking is to stop altering the tune after it being engineered, and I don't really know of any after market ECUs that have this locking function...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 06:28
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motec, thats it.
sucky but true.
so go get your $4000 ecu setup... *sigh*
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 07:24
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goes to show u how many people are doing the dodgy..
How do ECU manufactures stay in business, Id expect that a large proportion of programable ecus were put straight into road cars...
It doesnt surprise me that your not getting any helpful answers on this topic. Ive brought up similar topics before about engineering etc and got nowhere...
bugger all people drive legal modified cars.
maybe talking directly to the ecu manufacturer might help.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 07:27
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Other states can get away with it though. WA and QLD don't really seem to give a rats whether you have one.
I myself plan to have a legally modified car so I can shove the engineering report and pit inspection sheet in the face of the first cop who questions its legality...in the least smartass way of course 
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Glenmore Park, NSW
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 08:38
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and they'll still defect ya!
sad but true
Nathan
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 08:41
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This is where I draw attention to the bit about not being a smartass, being polite and making sure they know you've tried to do everything by the book, its amazing what you can get away with.
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Location:
Castlemaine Vic
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 09:24
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An Engineers report is still not a get out of jail free card tho, you can still get dicked either way
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 11:13
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What about a 1jzgte ecu + intercepter on a 2jzge, will this pass engineering?
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 12:17
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its a possibility glen.....
why not stick with the 2JZ-GE ecu and go with something like an E-manage or better and pull out some tuning for teh M90? I see no reason why an NA ecu can't have its mixtures etc changed enough to control a boosted motor
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 12:29
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| chrisss wrote on Sun, 21 November 2004 18:24 |
It doesnt surprise me that your not getting any helpful answers on this topic. Ive brought up similar topics before about engineering etc and got nowhere...
bugger all people drive legal modified cars.
maybe talking directly to the ecu manufacturer might help.
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Did YOU ring an engineer? FFS its 1 phone call and they'll tell you exactly what you can do and what you can't do. You don't have to say "Hi my name is Jo Bloggs and my numberplate is ABC123 is this legal?"
I don't understand why no one wants to RING AN ENGINEER!
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 13:40
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just go the emanage way.nothing wrong with it..hell i use a simple apexi safc with great results..and no headaches...
like said unless an aftermarket ecu can operate in closed loop there isnt much chance of running legal emissions.not to mention losing factory idle quality etc..
or wire in a michrotech as piggyback style if you whant the functions etc..has been done before.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 17:41
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...Sheesh they want to defect a aftermarket computer which is a couple of grand of technology...
Imagine saying to a copper, "my engine is tuned with a Gameboy Advanced"....
(There was some mob making some gear that allowed u to use a GBA as a controller)
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Sun, 21 November 2004 17:44
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| SupraPete wrote on Sun, 21 November 2004 23:29 |
| chrisss wrote on Sun, 21 November 2004 18:24 |
It doesnt surprise me that your not getting any helpful answers on this topic. Ive brought up similar topics before about engineering etc and got nowhere...
bugger all people drive legal modified cars.
maybe talking directly to the ecu manufacturer might help.
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Did YOU ring an engineer? FFS its 1 phone call and they'll tell you exactly what you can do and what you can't do. You don't have to say "Hi my name is Jo Bloggs and my numberplate is ABC123 is this legal?"
I don't understand why no one wants to RING AN ENGINEER!
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Or you could do that, just replace "jo Bloggs" and the numberplate with the info of some dude u hate...
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Mon, 22 November 2004 05:55
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i think someone completely missed the point of pete's post....
and some other people have missed the point that it's not the FUNCTIONS of the ECU that aren't legal, it's the ECU ITSELF!! Unless the ECU has been cleared, tested, and certified to comply with ADR's and EURO standards on a number of vehicles (at around $2k per test or more) then it's simply not legal as it does not comply with ADR's.
However, most engineers are happy to allow an aftermarket ECU through, but talking to a few engineers in YOUR STATE will clear this up for you people. For all i know i'm probably wrong on a few points because i have never talked to an engineer on this matter.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Mon, 22 November 2004 06:37
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| THE WITZL wrote on Mon, 22 November 2004 16:55 |
i think someone completely missed the point of pete's post....
For all i know i'm probably wrong on a few points because i have never talked to an engineer on this matter.
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Witzl You Funny
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Mon, 22 November 2004 06:50
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i need 6 ignition outputs for the 1jz coilpacks, thus i cant run the 2jzge ecu.
THe 1jzgte ecu has this functionality, and the 2jzgte ecu is too complicated.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: How to engineer an aftermarket ecu on a road car?
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Mon, 22 November 2004 06:54
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| ae86drift wrote on Sun, 21 November 2004 17:28 |
motec, thats it.
sucky but true.
so go get your $4000 ecu setup... *sigh*
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Actually, the new Halwin X Haltech software is also lockable.
Thou breaking the lock is as esy as 
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