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Registered:
May 2004
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Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 07:26
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Hi all,
I own a 1986 Toyota Supra Twin Turbo. It is a GA70, and has a 1G-GTEU in it.
I purchased it about 8 months ago and the previous owner had taken very good care of this car, it is in prestine condition and he had carried out the following work:
Auto to manual conversion (W58)
Full engine rebuild with chrome faced piston rings, flowing, porting and polishing of the cylinder head.
Rebuilt turbos (2x CT12)
2.5" exhaust system excluding downpipe (no cat converters)
I have all receipts for the work.
Since then I have replaced the downpipe with a 2.5" pipe, replaced all filters and oils - including fuel filter, I run the car on magnatec, replace the oil religiously every 5,000km and use genuine Toyota filters. I work for the Toyota dealership here in New Zealand and have always used genuine parts when I can. I have installed a K&N panel filter and a turboxs boost controller (currently running at 10psi). I've checked out basic ignition components and they all seem to be testing okay, I put a new set of platinum spark plugs in just to be sure.
The engine feels strong and although not as powerful as some other turbocharged cars I have been for a ride in it does go well, blows no smoke etc.
Last saturday night I decided to put my car on the dyno for the first time, my mates dad owns a workshop with a dyno and although it is a very old style dyno (doesn't give you a graph with torque/kw and air:fuel ratio like the newer ones) it still does the job, his dad just writes down the various torque/horsepower figures at the various rpm's throughout the revrange. It basically has gauges with needles. I didn't find out what my air:fuel mixtures were throughout the run.
Initially as the car was brought up to peak power it developed a minor misfire, which he thought to be fouled plugs from babying the car around in traffic for the last couple of days.
As we brought the car up once again to max power the misfire was gone but I did notice the car blowing some black smoke at max power, now I realise that factory engine management does give a very rich mixture on boost to protect itself from detonation.
Max power was 136 horsepower, or 101.5 kilowatts.
This in my opinion is pathetic. The car doesn't feel like it's a 136 horsepower car, all my workmates from work who have been for a ride say it definitely doesn't feel like a 136 horsepower car. I'm wondering whether the calibration of the dyno is incorrect, so maybe I should try one of the newer types of dynos here in New Zealand. Other cars that night on the dyno - for example Skyline GTS25t - which looked to be reasonably stock except for exhaust - made 290 horsepower.
I suppose I need to confirm the power output on another dyno but if it is still a problem then I guess I need to start looking at if the car has an overfueling problem and perhaps run a compression test through the car. The idle is sometimes a bit 'poppy' but the car is very smooth throughout the revrange and generally runs very well.
Anyway I'm sorry for the very lengthy post but I'd really like to get to the bottom of it. Perhaps I'll see if I can get dynod on another dyno this weekend and get back to you guys with my results.
Cheers,
Mike.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 08:47
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Dynos should only be used as a tuning tool unless a direct comparison can be made that same day. Dyno Dynamics Shootout mode provides a level playing field, but only when the operator actually knows what they are doing.
While lower than I would expect, it is unfortunate but true that the earlier 1G's (by 1986 I'd be assuming yours is a Gen2) don't make as much power as their later counterparts. As a direct comparison, I'd say the dyno is whack.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 11:48
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Well, according to that, 290hp is 216.34kw at the wheels - which is not the norm for a stock GTS25, rather it'd need exhaust, ECU, cooler, and high flow turbo for that kind of result...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 21:22
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86 model suggests it's either a gen 1 or gen 2 1g-gteu so 101kw sounds about right.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 22:07
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yeah dude i only got 92 kw from my automatic stocker soarer with the same engine 1g-gte mines stock as a rock running 9psi boost factory although the afr was showing that the car was running very very rich
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Location:
South Eastern Subs
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 22:51
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I got 97rwkw with a 3 inch cat back exaust and a pod filter..Also running very rich.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 23:08
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| IRA11Y wrote on Mon, 22 November 2004 16:52 |
157Kw less 30% drive train loss = 109.9KW @ Rear wheels
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Don't you think 30% is a bit big for a drivetrain loss with a W58?
With the older A34DE Auto for sure, but not the W58.
I'd be using something around the 20-25%
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 23:21
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My gen 2 made 110rwkw on standard boost.
My gen 3 made 150rwkw on 16psi.
The standard power for a manual gen 2 seems to be 95-110rwkw depending on exhaust/intercooler etc. It sounds like your is pretty much average for a standard setup.
Put a bleed on it for some more power. Even the gen 2's make 140rwkw @ 15psi.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Mon, 22 November 2004 23:46
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mine made 137rwhp on a Gtech Dyno thats with a leaky head gasket and only 5psi due to farked seal in one of the turbos
note: 137rwhp was the average over 7 runs
only mods are exhaust and filter as bleed valve wasnt hooked up at that stage
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Tue, 23 November 2004 02:41
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I changed my AFM and got a huge improvement, managed 123rwkW on standard boost with my Gen2 1GGTE. Only mods are 3inch exhaust and pod filter.
Check your A/F ratios guys!
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Location:
Yowie Bay, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Tue, 23 November 2004 13:04
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i had 234hp at the rear of mine
was running hks to4 though....
unfortunately didnt dyno it before then
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Tue, 23 November 2004 21:59
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[quote title=Dylo wrote on Tue, 23 November 2004 13:41]I changed my AFM and got a huge improvement, managed 123rwkW on standard boost with my Gen2 1GGTE. Only mods are 3inch exhaust and pod filter.
what afm did u use mate thats interesting to know 
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Tue, 23 November 2004 23:33
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fark, i thought my 1ggte was running a bit underpowered. i got 133.7rwkw at the last dyno day. it's a gen2 with gen3 turbos running 11psi, 3 inch exhaust and EMS ecu.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Tue, 23 November 2004 23:40
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HMM INTERESTING,so a 3 inch exhaust 2psi boost and aftermarket ecu will only give around 40kw for me
shite that not woth it
i was planing on putting in a 3 inch exhaust and upping the boost , no ecu mods want to keep the stock ecu , ive alredy got the muffler and cat in 3 inch , but by the looks of it i aint gonna get much out of it , do u guys reckon i should do it , or leave it i dun wanna spend so much moneyand get close to nothing out of it
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Location:
Auckland, NZ
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 01:18
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157rwkw at a dyno measured 13psi of boost
1989 1G-GTE with 130,000kms
No air filter
3" exhaust with 2 full size mufflers taken off a supra so by no means new, eliminated cat with 3" piping, factory downpipes and front pipe.
Bleed & Needle valve setup to achieve desired boost. (Reading about 16psi on my gauge, but the dyno read it at 13psi so *shrug*)
Manually converted
Open diff
And running filthy rich... everyone fell over themselves getting out from behind my car when it ran coz of the clouds of black smoke coming out the back 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 01:30
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And running filthy rich... everyone fell over themselves getting out from behind my car when it ran coz of the clouds of black smoke coming out the back
hehehe same thing happened to mine people in the back of the car were running for cover when it was floored at peak boost all of em were crying due to the fumes from the car lolllllll
Gr33nM0nk3y
just remember dude as i said before i wont be using aftermarket ecu , so i wont even get 20kw out of the setup thats whats bothering me
im oly gonnabe getting a good 3 incg system and upping the boost
worth it or not guys
btw ive alredy had my licence suspended for 6 months so car wont be doing any running around for that time so maybe iil save and do it then
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 01:37
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Of course its worth it.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 02:05
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| indian wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 12:00 |
btw ive alredy had my licence suspended for 6 months so car wont be doing any running around for that time so maybe iil save and do it then
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I think im about to lose mine for twelve months, if that happens ill just go teh 2JZ, you should think about doing the same
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 02:12
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loll man wtf did u do , tell me u werent going more than 40k over i thnk thats 12 months suspension farkkkkkkk
public transport suckssssssssss
i was 38 over and lost it 5 months and 30 days to go now lolllllll
90 in a 50 zone  
bastard was hiding in a bush and jumped out and flagged me down
was running for me train to go to work 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 02:17
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103 in 60 zone overtaking a B-Double
camera, im fucked
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 02:23
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fark thats sucks big time man thats like 43 over good luck u will need it ,
its true the rumor with soarers everyone who ive said ive got a soarer has asked me one thing
HAVE U GOT ANY SPEEDING TICKETS YET
and the worst part is i was thinking of that same sentence and smirking due to the fact i havent had one yet while i was going to drive my car and a minute later got busted and got a ticket
owned big time by the copper
i think these cars come with a speeding ticket from the factory
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 02:26
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| indian wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 10:23 |
i think these cars come with a speeding ticket from the factory
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Although I think this should be the end of it and this thread should get back on topic, my best mate had loads of speeding fines with his old car, and since he got his GZ20 he hasn't had any.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 02:55
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 03:22
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Indian.
Check the error codes in your car 1st. Then if it doesnt tel you why its runnin so rich start looking down other avenues.
I would start at the source and borrow an AFM that you know works and plug it in and go for a run. It figures out the mixtures. Mine used to boost up fine and go hard from 3500 - 5000 revs, then would feel like your going nowhere and would just rev, error code was telling me - air temp sensor error. Changed the AFM and the thing went like a dream. Revs all the way to almost 8 and pulls all the way thru.
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Location:
Auckland, NZ
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 03:40
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Ahhh speeding tickets... I think its good I got all my hooliganism and stupid shit out in my younger days with my other cars... Haven't really had any issues with the Soarer except for onetime a cop pulling me up for not wearing a seatbelt coz I was going 20m around the corner to the gas station... other than that, I seem to keep getting these pesky 62kph speeding tickets in a 50k zone... damn cameras.. maybe I should just stop going over 60
The weird thing is, I do 90kph on the motorway, but I do 60kph in 50k zones, unless theres housing around then I rarely push much over 50... Good old revenue collecting cameras
Dylo: You say it revs all the way to almost 8?!?!?!?! Mine redlines at 6,800 and rev limits at about 7... how the hell do you get yours to 8?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 03:45
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Can we not turn this into yet another speeding ticket thread? PLEASE?
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Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 05:52
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Dylo,
The problems that you have sound exactly the same as the problem I have. The car goes completely flat over around 5500rpm, on the dyno the car actually loses power and torque and 1psi boost over 5000rpm. Unfortunately I don't know of anyone else who has a 1G-GTE so I may have to find a wrecker with an AFM that I can experiment with.
Cheers,
Mike.
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 05:54
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yeah mine was recorded at 8.2 psi wen its supposed to be running 9 psi dunno why
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Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 05:57
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I also forgot to include in my last post that I checked error codes and the computer is not throwing any codes.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 06:33
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| MR 1GGTE wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 13:17 |
103 in 60 zone overtaking a B-Double
camera, im fucked
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You deserve it, with that level of idiocy.....
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 06:44
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| AE86slut wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 17:03 |
| MR 1GGTE wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 13:17 |
103 in 60 zone overtaking a B-Double
camera, im fucked
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You deserve it, with that level of idiocy.....
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hey slut:
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 06:53
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maybe you lose boost up top because the turbos are so damn small.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Plumpton/sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 07:21
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| Chris Davey wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 17:53 |
maybe you lose boost up top because the turbos are so damn small.
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The problem also would be your intercooler I found that with the stock cooler my boost would fall from 18psi to 15psi after 5500rpm it is because the air is getting to hot for the engine to run efficient
INDIAN
I am running an EMS computer and 17 psi boost and my car made 167rwkw and it was definitely worth it over stock boost figures
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Location:
Yowie Bay, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 08:38
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modified the standard afm
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 09:16
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| Dabbid wrote on Wed, 24 November 2004 19:08 |
modified the standard afm
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how did you do that?
i hear the 1G afm's are very shitty 
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Location:
Yowie Bay, Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 11:38
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slowly cutting away more and more of the flap in the afm
be careful not to go too far or the fuel pump switches off at idle, fortunately this didnt happen to me, but a mate of mine did it
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 21:42
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ummm the stock cooler was apparently good for 200kw ah well any excuse will do to take it off and fit a bigger one , but then again wont there be a bit of lag as the tubos are too small to runa larger intercooler
also with modding the afm , if the flap is mad smaller wont the air go back the other way when the throttle is shut , which will affect the sensor in the afm causing fuelling problems
cause in the stock afm the air is reversed through a small hole that bypasses the sensor , so it doesnt get a negative reading
hope thats making some sense here
also Dabbid did the fluttering noise increase by any chance in ur car by modding the afm and were u runnin the stock turbos
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 22:15
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dabbid i know it might be a bit much to ask but is there any chance i could get a photo of what you have done as i dont want to either cut to far, or cut the wrong bit, im pretty sure i know what youre talking about as i had my AFM off when i put in my filter, its metal isnt it?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 22:30
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am i like the only person with a map sensored 1g? After reading all your posts, all of you's seem to have afm
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Location:
newcastle nsw
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 22:37
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make that two, map sensor for me too
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 22:42
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i wish i had a map sensor
the AFM on the 1G sucks
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Location:
south east - melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Disappointing Supra Dyno
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Wed, 24 November 2004 22:57
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map sensor wtf how unless ur runnin aftermarket ecu ummm which u are
yeah id like a pic of the afm chopped as well Dabbid
do u know how much u chopped off at least and di it make any improvement thats worthwile and what improement did u notice
mehh maybe i need a pod filter afterall im still using stock airbox with the front end cut open and theres a leak somewhere in my car can hear hissing noise when backing off the accelerator pedal
lolll sound kinda like the hks ssqv going off but much quieter its like having the sound of a bov but no bov lolllllllll
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