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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2004
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Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Mon, 29 November 2004 09:45
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heya there guys im very new to this forum but have researched a wealth of information on toyota engines. Ive become a huge fan of toyota celica's and the 18rgeu engine which im planning on getting in my next car.
I currently own a shit stock shitty rice burning mitsubishi lancer gli 1998 and im going to sell it to embark on a project to get a toyota celica 1978 ra23.
Now i do want to put an 18rgeu engine into it, i just havent had any luck finding out who specialises in putting these engines into these older cars in queensland and brisbane, ive just recently moved up here, and i want to get the thing converted to efi i dont want the usual solex carburators as they usually have.
im wondering exactly what the figure would be for a mildly modified and installed efi 18rgeu including computer (wether it be a modified ecu or aftermarket one) modifications would include basics such as ported and polished headers, oversized valves, mild cams and profiling if possible.)
and as for an ra23 celica, it would be difficult to find one in good condition wouldnt it as rust would eat the car alive. What would be a good estimate on dent and rust removal and then a respray in a deep navy blue colour for this particular model of a car?
it is a long term project as i have driven a friends older celica and loved it and wish to keep it for the long term, is the 18rgeu a good and inexpensive choice to make? or is it a bit to difficult to source.
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Mon, 29 November 2004 10:19
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1978 celica is a RA40
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Mon, 29 November 2004 10:45
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Hi,
The RA23 is 1975-1977.
The 18RG engines will bolt into your car without any hassles. You can also whack in a 1G engine, which fits into the RA23, with some work.
For nomral driving the EFI offers no power advantage over a properly tuned carb engine. If you're going to turb the engine and do other mods, then the EFI 18RGEU is a good choice.
If you want to keep the engine standard, then get an early 18RG (with carbs) as they were the most powerful stock 18R engine that Toyota made.
In any event, we want pics!!!!
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Mon, 29 November 2004 10:52
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| enigmav2 wrote on Mon, 29 November 2004 19:45 |
I currently own a shit stock shitty rice burning mitsubishi lancer gli 1998 and im going to sell it to embark on a project to get a toyota celica 1978 ra23.
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smart move - tho dont expect the economy of safety that the lancer might have afforded you 
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Now i do want to put an 18rgeu engine into it, i just havent had any luck finding out who specialises in putting these engines into these older cars in queensland and brisbane, ive just recently moved up here, and i want to get the thing converted to efi i dont want the usual solex carburators as they usually have.
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the best to do this is probably you - after going and looking at GUE installs and doing lots of reading here.. You'll find manuals about the car/engine hard to come by - when in doubt search and ask...
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im wondering exactly what the figure would be for a mildly modified and installed efi 18rgeu including computer (wether it be a modified ecu or aftermarket one) modifications would include basics such as ported and polished headers, oversized valves, mild cams and profiling if possible.)
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jeez - as little as $600 and keep going up until you think it's out of control.
i'd suggest going thru the for sale section of the forums to guage prices for ECUs and engines
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and as for an ra23 celica, it would be difficult to find one in good condition wouldnt it as rust would eat the car alive. What would be a good estimate on dent and rust removal and then a respray in a deep navy blue colour for this particular model of a car?
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depends how much you want to spend... this was my end budget for my RA40 rebuild:
http://members.optushome.com.au/mkhala/red_celica/ budget.html
again .. the more time you spend on it, the less it will/may cost you
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it is a long term project as i have driven a friends older celica and loved it and wish to keep it for the long term, is the 18rgeu a good and inexpensive choice to make? or is it a bit to difficult to source.
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yes... and no. there's a growing number of 3T-GTE installs and a few brave souls doing 3S-GTE transplants
the 18RG is an old engine - perhaps you'd have a lot more fun (and less aggro) with a newer engine?
good luck anyway!
cheers, charles.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Mon, 29 November 2004 13:02
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| river wrote on Mon, 29 November 2004 20:45 |
For nomral driving the EFI offers no power advantage over a properly tuned carb engine.
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While the factory EFI engine has no more peak power than the twin-carb engines, on the street it works a lot better thanks to its superior low-to-mid range torque and broader power band. No hassles with cranky idling or cold starts either. For a street car you'd be silly to go with carbs unless you're willing to spend a fortune on new Webers and getting them tuned by a pro (which are hard to come by these days).
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Mon, 29 November 2004 20:42
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Hi,
Yeah, you're right Norbie. When I was speaking to Willo (the driver of the Chickadee Chicken Celica that was in Bathurst) he was saying the EFI didn't offer better power but was much better than the carbs in drive-ability and power band. Also, he said there was less hassle in setting up the EFI than carbs.
I got carbs and they got tuned by Frank Kleinig a couple of months ago. I think Frank is one of the few dudes alive who can properly tune these things. When he dies/retires I'll probably have to go EFI! However, in the interim, my traditional old school 18RG will keep its carbs. I love the sucking sound of them and they look so much cooler than an EFI.
suck.. suck.. suck.. suck... and on the down-change gurgle.. gurgle.. gurgle..
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Mon, 29 November 2004 23:38
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Having had both in my cars I prefer the carbs for the weekend run and efi for daily driving, (and winter starts).
That being said you can install these engines in youself very easily as the 18R-G(EU) bolts straight in onto the standard mounts and the engine swap can be comfortably done in a weekend for a novice if you have the tools to do it.
The 18R-G is not going to give you the throw you back in your seat sort of power, but if you are keen to "do it yourself" the results are excellent compared to the wheezy 18r-c. and is a much cheaper option to get you started on the road to modifiying Celicas.
I stood over the engine bay of my celica for about 3 weeks before I got enough courage up to pull it out but once started the other engine was in the same day and partially wired up.
The best advice I can give for the novice is to start simple and small and build up from there. I started this way and am now looking at selling the 18R-GEU Celica Setup for a 1G-GTE now I feel I can achieve that conversion.
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Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Tue, 30 November 2004 00:16
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Word of advise. Unless you want love working on cars, get a loan and buy someone's baby that they have poured their love and money into.
I have done the stripped shell, engine upgrade (1GGTE), respray, repair rust, everything new. The WHOLE works. I am now at month 11 with my car off the road. Keep in mind I was very inexperienced and the whole process has been very much a learning experience. I also work full time.
The time and money you will put in can easily work out to the same as paying $10,000+ for a very nice Celica.
The only difference is that if you do everything yourself you can have 100% confidence that you know the exact condition of your car, inside and out.
In hindsight I would get a loan, and do it that way. I love my car, but are horrified by the concept that someone could smash into it. The attachment is not financially based, but the fact that I have put so much blood sweat and tears into the thing (literally). It was mean't to be my every day driver, but considering the investment, it will probably be just for the weekends now.
Oh yeah, also research into good rustproofing. (search for POR-15)
Older celicas are really prone once the rubber seals start to go.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Tue, 30 November 2004 11:48
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Thank you for all the feedback. i really appreciated the Efi verse Carby arguments brought fourth. I do want it to be something of a weekend cruiser, and i just like the ring of EFI , ive looked at the 3t-gte engine upgrade as well and it may seem extremely viable. But the only reason i prefer the 18rgeu over all other engines is its classic heritage, one of the first Dohc engines from toyota that produced good power and has dual overhead camshafts, i just dont like the ring of SOHC.
And expenses wise yes, i will be looking to spend a small fortune, the managed fund is maturing and in its final stages, so im deeply considering a cruiser for the weekends no minor detail spared.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Ra23 & 18rgeu question for new person that has just started out.
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Tue, 30 November 2004 13:11
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Its definately a lot of work rebuilding a car yourself. As suggested before it would be much easier to buy someones already modified, but thats the problem, it still will be someone elses baby. If you work on your car, build it from the ground up, its yours and no-one elses.
Still, it would be quite a good idea to find a celica with a nice body, no rust and good paint, and go from there. If you want to do the paint thing, expect it to be off the road for a long time. I am about 10 months into my restoration, and I've only really got around to doing the paint.
EFI is definately the way to go if you want a good daily driver, but twin carbs is quite old school and cool, just a pain to tune. I have both for my 18RG but I'm not sure what I'll be putting on mine when its on the road. Probably the EFI.
Good luck with whatever you do!
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