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Location:
Auckland, NZ
Registered:
April 2004
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W57 or W58?
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Wed, 01 December 2004 23:34
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Hey ppl, now I know theres been a lot of discussion about this, and there still doesn't appear to be a definitive answer as to whether some W58's come with alloy sandwich plates. Well anyway my W58 died... monday night it lost second gear, today it decided to lock itself in 1st on the way to work, managed to wrestle it out and drive home with just 3rd and 4th (no 1st or 2nd gear anymore)... a mate had just bought a "W58" for his car, happily onsold it to me knowing I needed it more. However I was a little dubious upon seeing it as it had an alloy sandwich plate. Now the guy he bought it off reckons he had the ratios counted and it is a 58... what I'm hoping you guys can do, is provide an honest opinion about whether this new box is in fact a 58, and if so then why it has an alloy sandwich plate?
Also people claim 57's and 58's are almost identical, that the 58 isn't stronger, so will I be fine running it if this IS a 57?
*Linking because the images are fairly large so I don't want to load down anyones connection unnecessarily*
W58 that I've just pulled out (Note: this is a w58 out of a GA70 supra that came with my manual conversion kit)
http://www.boost.org.nz/Box/58.jpg
Supposed W58 that is about to go in...
http://www.boost.org.nz/Box/57.jpg
Direct comparison of both boxes...
http://www.boost.org.nz/Box/which1.jpg
Something I noticed written on side of MY W58...
http://www.boost.org.nz/Box/58-1.jpg
The same location on the supposed 58, but different number...
http://www.boost.org.nz/Box/57-1.jpg
Now the supposed 58 is supposed to have come out of a MKII Supra, and the chassis plate I've been told says W58. Could it be that MKII supras did have W58's but they were alloy plated as opposed to the MKIII supras steel plated W58's? Or is it more likely that the gearbox has been replaced at some stage with a W57?
Help me out guys, cheers 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 01:25
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Yes, W58's did come with alloy sandwich plates - I have one here, and have counted the fifth gear ratio to confirm. The alloy sandwich plated W58's do come from the 1982-85 Mk2 Supras as you suggested, also from RA65's. I don't believe they will be any stronger than any other alloy sandwich plated gearbox, though given the fact you killed second gear, I'd say this is not your issue with your box. The steel sandwich plate is more for reinforcement of the shafts than overall gear strength (and yes before all the other genuis's chime in, I realise it's all relative).
My solution to your problem is simple - change your driving style or put a stronger box in.
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 06:24
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You will need to swap the rear housings over to get the shifter position to the rear-most location.
I realise that may be stating the obvious - but stating the obvious is better than missing it!
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 06:27
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Housing and selector fork as well actually, more stating the obvious. Having pulled apart 2 W57's about 20 times (each), I have learned that it is important not to knock the thing into gear when you are re-assembling the gearbox !
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 06:30
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| ra23celica wrote on Thu, 02 December 2004 14:27 |
I have learned that it is important not to knock the thing into gear when you are re-assembling the gearbox !
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BLOODY OATH!!
I was there for hours trying to figure out what I did wrong!!
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Location:
On your mum!
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 06:31
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ha ha, learning as you go is great fun. I cannot remember if I swapped the selector fork or just the cast piece that bolts to the shaft (the gizmo that accepts the nylon shifter bush).
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 06:35
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| gabe wrote on Thu, 02 December 2004 17:30 |
BLOODY OATH!!
I was there for hours trying to figure out what I did wrong!!
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Me too - first time around - it was killing me !!!!
And you take the Young Ones Award for 'Complete and Utter B@st>@rd of the Year' as you could have told me about this before I started !!!!! 
Just joking mate !!!!
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 13:11
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| YelloRolla wrote on Thu, 02 December 2004 14:31 |
ha ha, learning as you go is great fun. I cannot remember if I swapped the selector fork or just the cast piece that bolts to the shaft (the gizmo that accepts the nylon shifter bush).
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Both the shifter positioner and the selector fork need changing.
Nothing else does.
Its just a bitch that you have to remove the rear housing to do it.
And yes, I too have had my fair share of fucking around with the selector while putting a box back together.
MUCH easier to do it vertically than horizontally
And MAKE SURE you check that all gears can be selected before bolting it back up.
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Location:
Auckland, NZ
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 20:04
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Thanks for all the advice guys.
In the end its come down to the fact that I don't want to pay $350 for a box I have to swap shifters on, so I've given the alloy plate one back to my mate, and went out and bought a C33 Club S Laurel to get me around while my cars up on jackstands and I commence the search for a MKIII rear shifter steel plated W58 (Wish me luck :\)
In the meantime, I'll also be disassembling my gearbox for a learning experience, and seeing exactly what's gone wrong... (although yes, I'm aware me chopping 2nd all the time is what killed it, the box had ruined 2nd gear synchros and a bad whine in 5th when I got it...)
If anybody has any auggestions or advice for dissasembling (and possibly attempting a home rebuild) on a w58 for me, other than not knocking it into gear when pulled apart 
Cheers
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Mon, 06 December 2004 00:28
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| Looonie wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 04:04 |
In the end its come down to the fact that I don't want to pay $350 for a box I have to swap shifters on, so I've given the alloy plate one back to my mate, and went out and bought a C33 Club S Laurel to get me around while my cars up on jackstands and I commence the search for a MKIII rear shifter steel plated W58 (Wish me luck :\)
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You know its a 15 minute job to change the shifter position over?
| Looonie wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 04:04 |
If anybody has any auggestions or advice for dissasembling (and possibly attempting a home rebuild) on a w58 for me, other than not knocking it into gear when pulled apart
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http://www.celicasupra.com/w58teardown/csw58.html
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Location:
Auckland, NZ
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Mon, 06 December 2004 00:44
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Negative... I would have thought pulling the box apart to remove the selector fork and shaft is a fairly substantial thing to do? Again not something I really want to do for a $350 box...
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Nope, its actually quite easy.
As said above, putting it back together can be tricky due to the slector moving while sliding the casing back on, but youll figure out how to do that quite quickly.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Mon, 06 December 2004 00:45
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| Looonie wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 08:36 |
Negative... I would have thought pulling the box apart to remove the selector fork and shaft is a fairly substantial thing to do?
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Yeah, its just 10 bolts to separate the rear half, 6 bolts on the shifter positioner, one bolt holding the selector thing in
Do this on both boxes, clean it up, gasket goo, be careful when putting it back together, and just make sure its all tight.
Probably closer to an hour for first timers, but it is the cheaper way.
Good luck finding an xA70 box for that price (most places will ask $550ish) and if you do, it will probably be an MA70 box, which will require a bellhousing swap anyway.
Think about it, an hours work while sitting around with a few mates enjoying some beers, or an extra $100-$200.
If you can find an xA70 box for cheap, go for it.
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Location:
Auckland, NZ
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: W57 or W58?
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Sat, 11 December 2004 04:03
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Well... as an update
Ringing around, only found two rear shifter W boxes, both W57's, one $500+gst and the other $750+GST (the 750 one I can get for $400 as a cash deal through a mate but with no warranty...)
So in the meantime while desperately hoping for a cheaper W box to come along, I started dismantling my 58... and what did I find...
Haven't gotten the rear casing off yet, but I'm thinking that might be where the problem lies
Now all I have to do is figure out how to get it off, and find a replacement...
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