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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 08:45
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Do K&N make these for the 20 valve?
I would think that these would be more effiecient than throttle socks and probably sound better.
What part number, diameter and has anyone got pics of these?
Any info.
cheers
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Thu, 02 December 2004 22:33
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They make 'em, and they are far better than the Uni Filters, but at around $60-$70 a pop, they are a bit exxy!
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 00:26
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It would be worth it. 
I am going to get some titanium throttle pipes made up so i need some rough measurements. i saw it somewhere and i have to have it. What diameter are your intake pipes slutty?
So far my 20V engine alone with all the goodies, without the exhaust, is going to cost me about $5500 aaprox. 
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 00:28
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I'll have to measure them....
$5,500??? Bargain! That's about $1.5k cheaper than mine (new engine that is)
Why are you going titanium anyways?
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 04:12
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In that case, that's pretty expensive for nothing fitted.
And good luck getting over 200hp unless you want to spend over $20k on an Atlantic spec engine (forged crank will cost $3k alone).
190 is my target, but that's using 304deg/10.5 lift cams, machined/knife edged crank, fully grooved bearings, race prepped rods, TODA hi comp forged pistons, race prepped head with very extensive porting and a few more tricky bits and pieces.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 04:24
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man
thats quite a list over 10 grand just in parts...
as for your question, garage annex (http://www7.airnet.ne.jp/annex/) makes a kit containing 4 filters and 4 filter attachment flange plates and 8 bolts for 37800 yen. fits both ae101 and ae111 throttles.
http://www7.airnet.ne.jp/annex/air_%20filterl.htm
translation:
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Price YEN 37800 Yen (substance price YEN 36000 Yen)
Inhalation the area it is large, adopting the filter of K & N make.
Another you can wash with the washing kit of the sale.
16 valve 4 cyl equipped, to install even in the car, there is an example because.
Please inquire. (You can install in also AE111.)
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 04:47
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| ae86drift wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 15:24 |
man
thats quite a list over 10 grand just in parts...
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Who's list? My list?
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 04:55
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Surely 200 hp is possible. 160hp standard.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:00
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| Evan wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 15:55 |
Surely 200 hp is possible. 160hp standard.
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I thought you meant rwhp
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:02
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Nah that would be crazy expensive with an n/a.
But would 200hp at the crank be ok goal?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:02
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| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 15:12 |
In that case, that's pretty expensive for nothing fitted.
And good luck getting over 200hp unless you want to spend over $20k on an Atlantic spec engine (forged crank will cost $3k alone).
190 is my target, but that's using 304deg/10.5 lift cams, machined/knife edged crank, fully grooved bearings, race prepped rods, TODA hi comp forged pistons, race prepped head with very extensive porting and a few more tricky bits and pieces.
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3k?
hahaha u wish jellyfish
the Tomei forged counter balanced 10000rpm crank is 400 000 yen = $5000AUD
the JUN forged counter balanced crank is 640 000 yen = $8000AUD
thats without tax and not shipped...
im shooting for 210hp also, tossing up using a ae101 manifold adaptor with quads or a SSworks keihin FCR carb kit... that and toda engine 'kit' which included: cams, valvetrain, gasket, pistons, shims, rings, springs, rods. with a tomei crank to finish it off. looking at $12k in parts alone.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:03
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| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 15:47 |
| ae86drift wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 15:24 |
man
thats quite a list over 10 grand just in parts...
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Who's list? My list?
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evans
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:03
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from what most engine tuner in the know told me was the 20v black only have 145-150 hp.
for 5k you can buy a fully prepared and rebuilt 20v silver (complete) and have 190-200hp. incl. light weight flywheel & clutch kit.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:05
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Once i get 200hp i will start stripping the weight with FRP hatch and bonnet. Goal for weight is about 850kg dry.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:06
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silver is 160.
black top is 165hp
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:08
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then install a roll cage and have max. fun at the race track without getting booked..
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:11
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Garth, there's a great way to keep costs down when building a serious engine. It's called not buying everything that has a Japanese brand stamped on it and is ridiculously overpriced!  
I can get you a forged crank for around $3k that is as good, if not better than your items listed above.
And while we're on the subject, you guys should specify whether you are aiming for flywheel or rwhp.... Garth, 210 rwhp will cost you more money than it's worth! As I said before, an Atlantic SHORT motor (240rwhp capable) will cost you upwards of $20k - this is before extractors, exhaust, inlet, flywheel, clutch, ECU and driveline to cope with it.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:21
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| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 16:11 |
Garth, there's a great way to keep costs down when building a serious engine. It's called not buying everything that has a Japanese brand stamped on it and is ridiculously overpriced!
I can get you a forged crank for around $3k that is as good, if not better than your items listed above.
And while we're on the subject, you guys should specify whether you are aiming for flywheel or rwhp.... Garth, 210 rwhp will cost you more money than it's worth! As I said before, an Atlantic SHORT motor (240rwhp capable) will cost you upwards of $20k - this is before extractors, exhaust, inlet, flywheel, clutch, ECU and driveline to cope with it.
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hahaha i know, but teh JDM is teh sexxxxybeast
haha 210rwhp, with a 4age? impossible!
im talking fly man. flyyyyy
and i was offered a 2001 ex-atlantic engine (245hp) with 14000kms on it for $11K... cheap!
[Updated on: Fri, 03 December 2004 05:22]
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:29
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| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 16:23 |
| ae86drift wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 16:21 |
haha 210rwhp, with a 4age? impossible!
im talking fly man. flyyyyy
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Watch this space....... 
Well, 190rwhp anyways!
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bullshit. how?
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 05:57
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That would be one hard core n/a
i'm talking everything internally changed and improved.
That would be one sweet ride
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 06:01
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indeedy.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 06:19
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2oorwhp out of 1600cc means you have to rev. at least 10,500rpm. with extra high lift cams and the engine only last 2 hours like f-atlantic
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 06:45
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This is a 2 litre 20valve 4age we are talking about.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 06:55
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Oi evan I saw your sprinter in Strathfield Car Audio workshop today. Whats going on? I think your dad was getting out of it
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 07:02
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Nah wasn't mine. Not today anyway.
maybe it was petes. It looks identicle to mine.
But i did park next to you in supercheap auto a couple of days ago, when you were talking to a dude in a series2 RX7
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 07:07
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So theres two with a royal drift sticker on the window??
Yeah thats my mate adrian. Its a S3 RX7 13B ext port. I constantly chop him with my GZE. Its a classic.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 07:10
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There a a few running around also other cars like rx7's and what have you.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 07:25
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So what would you rekon would be the setup i need for 200hp at the engine.?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 07:45
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| Evan wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 18:25 |
So what would you rekon would be the setup i need for 200hp at the engine.?
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higher lift duration cams
bigger induction
shim conversion
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 07:47
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Shim?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 07:51
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from the master himself (http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm)
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170hp - 180hp
Still not any huge differences between the big and small port engines here. Not a lot more work required to get the extra 10hp from the engine now; just slightly bigger cams really. I'd recommend 288 to 304° duration.
180hp - 190hp
Definitely 304° cams, and you'll have to start paying attention to tuning the inlet manifold length, if you haven't done so already. This is also getting to the limit of what a lightly ported small port head can manage.
190hp - 200hp
Getting towards the upper limit of 304° cams, and you'll also need to have the compression up to a good 11:1. 200hp is about the limit for a small port head, no matter what the porting, so from here on the big port is the way to go. Another area that has pretty much reached its limit is the stock valves - Past 200hp you'll be needing the big valve kit. More on that next paragraph.
The standard exhaust manifold has also reached its limit, so 200hp is about as far as you can go with an engine that still retains a large amount of standard parts. It will need to be revved to around 9,000rpm to get 200hp, though if built properly the engine will still be able to be driven on the road.
200hp - 220hp
Past 200hp is where the 4AGE becomes a much more serious engine, and so it requires a much greater attention to detail. It's the point at which you have to start spending a lot more money, for ever decreasing results. But, if you want the extra power then you gotta spend the dollars ...
The reason I've taken the jump from 200hp to 220hp is that there's not a lot of people that make 4AGE's of around this amount of power, hence I don't have a lot of information as such. I've found that past about the 180hp mark, it's the pure racers that do their best to get over 200hp, and so there's a bit of a gap. The other reason I seem to have skimped over the 170hp - 180hp - 190hp - 200hp sections is that once the head work is done, it's really cam changes that make a lot of difference. You get a little bit here and there with compression ratio's, etc, but there's really not a lot of work to be done to get that jump from about 170hp up to around 200hp.
Cams up around the 310° mark, with 0.360"/9.1mm lift are needed. You'll also have to start thinking about getting some 'shim under' buckets, which have the valve clearance adjusting shims as a small 13mm pellet shim, rather than the 25mm dia shim that sits on top of the cam buckets. This is because with cams bigger than the low 300's and roughly 8mm lift, the 'shim over' buckets will occasionally catch the edge of the shim with the top of the lobe of the cam and spit it out the side, thus RAPIDLY destroying the bucket and most likely a fair chunk of head in the next few milliseconds. The shim under kits can be obtained from TRD at hideous expense, or from other racing shops for (merely!) large amounts of money.
The big valve sets are equally as expensive, but again I know of a way that can reduce costs. I have found that the valves from a 7MGTE Supra engine should be identical to the TRD big valve kit, for a fraction of the cost. They are 2mm larger than the 4AGE valves, and should not be fitted if the engine makes less than about 200hp because you will LOSE power. The other problem with the 7MGTE valves is that they're about 2mm shorter than the 4AGE ones, so much thicker shims are needed. With shim-over buckets this is an ugly thing, but I guess it's possible with shim-under type buckets.
There are two crankshafts available for the 4AGE, the 'small' one which has the big end journals of 40mm dia, and the 'big' crank which has 42mm big ends. The big crank weighs about 700grams more than the small crank, (~11kgs Vs ~11.7kgs) and up to about 200hp - 220hp it is stronger, but in practice there is little difference between the two cranks. This changes with more than that amount of power though ...
The factory exhaust manifold, which was good up to about 200hp, now must be replaced with a good set of aftermarket extractors. By good, I mean that they must fulfill a few criteria to make them good rather than merely average -
- The four pipes MUST be equal length, to within less than 1/4"/6mm.
- The four pipes must NOT have any crushed bends in them anywhere at all.
- The four pipes must go into the collector in the same sequence as the firing order of the engine, ie, 1-3-4-2. Many of them simple put the pipes into the collector in any order that's convenient, but these sort make less power than a good set.
- The collector must be around the 60mm dia mark. Many aftermarket extractors have 50mm collectors, and this is not large enough to make big HP
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 07:57
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Wicked.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Fri, 03 December 2004 08:26
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you should read his entire website
twice
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 01:18
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| ae86drift wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 16:21 |
| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 16:11 |
Garth, there's a great way to keep costs down when building a serious engine. It's called not buying everything that has a Japanese brand stamped on it and is ridiculously overpriced!
I can get you a forged crank for around $3k that is as good, if not better than your items listed above.
And while we're on the subject, you guys should specify whether you are aiming for flywheel or rwhp.... Garth, 210 rwhp will cost you more money than it's worth! As I said before, an Atlantic SHORT motor (240rwhp capable) will cost you upwards of $20k - this is before extractors, exhaust, inlet, flywheel, clutch, ECU and driveline to cope with it.
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hahaha i know, but teh JDM is teh sexxxxybeast
haha 210rwhp, with a 4age? impossible!
im talking fly man. flyyyyy
and i was offered a 2001 ex-atlantic engine (245hp) with 14000kms on it for $11K... cheap!
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HHHMM Cheap, why didnt you buy it?
Cheers
Steve
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Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 01:22
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| Evan wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 18:02 |
Nah wasn't mine. Not today anyway.
maybe it was petes. It looks identicle to mine.
But i did park next to you in supercheap auto a couple of days ago, when you were talking to a dude in a series2 RX7
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Might of been Pete's, he mentioned the otherday he was getting a pretty serious security system, "why be at straithfield i say" but, each to their own i guess???
Steve
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 03:29
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Yeah he is getting a pretty good alarm system.
But, I don't think he is getting keyless entry.
I wouldn't mind keyless entry, but thats just not 86 style. Bit too much "bling" for me and too much of a hassle.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Sun, 05 December 2004 10:17
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| ae86drift wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 16:29 |
| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 16:23 |
| ae86drift wrote on Fri, 03 December 2004 16:21 |
haha 210rwhp, with a 4age? impossible!
im talking fly man. flyyyyy
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Watch this space.......
Well, 190rwhp anyways!
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bullshit. how?
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Patience my friend..... I'll show you the build sheet when it's done 
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Location:
Sydney (Campbelltown...!)
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Tue, 07 December 2004 11:57
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you guys building race cars....
20v alone in a sprinter has a nice amount of power
read on a site that 272 degree cams in a 4age only gave it an extra 28hp with intake and exhaust mods
for the money i wouldnt build up a serious n/a motor for everyday use waste of money just wack a turbo on it, turbo a gze or buy a faster car...
going to rebuild my 20v with toyota parts just standard maybe metal head gasket and maybe set of crow cams as cheap $700 set for 20v... dont think i could justify spending $5000 on a rebuild and only get an extra 30 or so kw
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Wed, 08 December 2004 04:53
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Turbos don't have that real raw feeling that a worked n/a would have.
When you hear a 20valve with lumpy cams scream you are hooked. More responsive for twisty roads.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Wed, 08 December 2004 07:40
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| Evan wrote on Wed, 08 December 2004 15:53 |
Turbos don't have that real raw feeling that a worked n/a would have.
When you hear a 20valve with lumpy cams scream you are hooked. More responsive for twisty roads.
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This is true.
BUT.......
for the money you have spent you could have a nice 4agze or 4agte in there.
its all an individual thing and as long as your happy, im happy 
I agree with A86slut, you dont need all that name brand shit to have a fast car and hopefully when my car is finished in the next few weeks i will have proved that to a few people on this forum.
Good luck wit it all.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: K&N 20VALVE Throttle Pods?
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Thu, 09 December 2004 00:35
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| Flogbag wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 22:57 |
you guys building race cars....
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Pretty much..... I drive my car maybe once a week, and that's usually to go for a thrash late at night during which the car is gonna be revved, not sit in traffic.
I had a turbo kit ready to go on, but everyone is doing that. It seems the way to be different these days is to NOT have a turbo!
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