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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2004
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radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 08:44
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I was heading down a 60 road and a cop went past, he turned around, pulled me over and gave me a ticket sayin i was goin 75. Im pretty sure I wasnt going 75.
I was goin over 60 but. Is it possible for a radar to check your speed when a cop is driving towards you? Either he was screwing me around or my speedo isnt workin too well.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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I supported Toymods
On probation
Location:
Brisbane, Queensland
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 08:48
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gooooooooooooooooooooone
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 09:41
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ahh oh well, it was only one point cos he knocked it down to 74 so it wasnt 15 over
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Location:
Hobart, TAS
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 10:51
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pigscough
dispute all your fines! if everyone did this they wont get any money and it will be tied up in the courts forever!
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 11:02
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| negative boost wrote on Sun, 05 December 2004 21:51 |
pigscough
dispute all your fines! if everyone did this they wont get any money and it will be tied up in the courts forever!
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mate up here (australia), it doesnt work like that. hows an open/shut case gonna be in the courts forever? youve been watching too many movies.
you could have asked to see the reading, he may have been bullshiting and only got you 14 over, or he did get you 15 and was good to you. its not a big deal, pay the fine and get over it.
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 11:17
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Pays to aske to see the reading and to see a calibration date and report (they are supposed to carry) If not in current test period it's invalid.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 11:28
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They dont have to show you a reading or calibration date anymore.
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 11:49
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| Cool1 wrote on Sun, 05 December 2004 22:28 |
They dont have to show you a reading or calibration date anymore.
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Shows what you miss when you've driven for 30 days in two years
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 11:58
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The swine tried to get me last weekend in the same manner. Said I was doing 92 when I'd just pulled out of a side street!
He asked if I admitted I was doing that speed, and of course I denied, just in case they didn't get me on the radar. He then asked if I wanted to see the radar screen, which I replied "no". I didn't think to ask for a printout. Should have. He ended up making me get out of my car and look at the radar screen. I just looked at it and said "uh huh" (he was obviously trying to get me to confess in one way or another).
Ended up giving me a 15 and over ticket. That's now 9 points in 3 months gone after not losing a point in 5 years! Better than the 30 and over (instant licence loss) that he could have given me I guess.
Just really shits me knowing that they know that I know that it's bs. I hadn't even got up to 60. And then he says "Consider yourself very lucky..... Have a good day".
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Location:
Coffs Harbour
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 12:58
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the courts trick does work i got done in april 4 an offence and have delayed it till this tues....
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 13:48
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| Jorrs wrote on Sun, 05 December 2004 22:58 |
the courts trick does work i got done in april 4 an offence and have delayed it till this tues....
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They still tack on extra charges for every scheduled court date.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 13:53
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so you original fine gets doubled by the magistrate ('cause you plead not guilty and the evidence contracts your story) and each letter from the court asking yout to turn up costs you about $70
... clever trick? or just a trick to easily lose more money?
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 13:54
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| Quote: |
Pays to aske to see the reading and to see a calibration date and report (they are supposed to carry) If not in current test period it's invalid.
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and Jeremy, I got done for (supposedly) 80 in a 50 zone (what the ticket says)
both myself and my passenger were a) suprised at my being pulled over and b) aghast at the reading on the gun.
I told the officer it was rather erroneous and that as I hadn't even left second gear very unlikely that was an accurate reading (if I am going 80 in 2nd my car is screaming its tits off - I don't usually drive like that in 50 zones)
completely bogus, and I told him so. I may have been speeding 60-65, which is fine, but just to pull this figure out of the air really bugs me.
I am going to court - I think what (may have) generated the bad reading was the fact I was accelerating. Their calculations are for consistent speend over a period of X second(s)... physics formula for velocity taking into consideration acceleration is vastly different than the one which includes constant velocity (how readings are taken)
That can be my only explanation aside from a totally fudged camera or method of operation
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Location:
central coast NSW
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 23:25
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I wonder if sometimes cops confuse acceleration with speeding. I was pulled over on my rgv for apparently doing 80 (its a suburban 40 zone past lots of cafe's and shops). No way I was doing that, i'd only just grabbed 2nd gear (about 50kph), and the street was full of traffic.
I cant complain though, I said to the cop I was tired and just kept pace with the bike in front of me without thinking (other bike was a mate - but I didnt say that). In the end he didnt even ticket me for speeding, so I think he knew he was full of shit, maybe he didn't like 2 strokes.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: radar question
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Sun, 05 December 2004 23:31
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well I was accelerating fast out of some lights on a side road
if you do not take acceleration into account the readings get completely screwed
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 02:29
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| thechuckster wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 00:53 |
so you original fine gets doubled by the magistrate ('cause you plead not guilty and the evidence contracts your story) and each letter from the court asking yout to turn up costs you about $70
... clever trick? or just a trick to easily lose more money?
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that is the gheyest theory ever!! it is your right to go to court and fight every fine,ofcourse your testimonial is going to contradict theirs and or the evidence,thats what court is for..there have been so many cases of speed cameras getting it wrong lately i think it is worth trying your luck,go down to an eastern ck night with a gtech or some formal device and present to the judge that your car is incapable of reaching the speeds outlined by the radar,take pictures of the road and distance from turning onto the road to the point you were clicked...it doesnt take much to do and the sheer effort involved will go in your favour...
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Location:
central coast NSW
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 04:28
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I'd be interested to know how radar guns work, and what their limitations are. Does their accuracy depend on how they are used, or are they a fool proof "point and shoot" item? Are their different types that are used?
for example, RobST says if you dont take accel into account the readings are fudged...so how would the gun try and correct for accel? And for measuring speed, would the gun have to know the angle of incidence of the beam relative to the target vehicles motion? Such Q's are why i'd be interested to know about them.
Can anyone give a proper explanation of how they work please? (not dribble about how they send out a beam and it bounces back with magic numbers...)
Sorry if this is hijacking the thread, I think it is partially relevant though...and I only thought of this at the drop of a hat, so I havent had time to search through the archives for old posts on this - apologies if there are old threads on the topic.
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 04:36
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this is a bit off topic, but do they take demerit points for parking violations now? 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 04:50
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| dimmy77_03 wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 15:36 |
this is a bit off topic, but do they take demerit points for parking violations now?
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Yep! what a farce huh,well only in NSW I think??
Im just waiting for someone to just go Milat on some RTA soon. Its bound to happen!
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 05:06
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that's fucked up big time IMO  dirty dick-lickers
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 07:05
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1. Wait until a couple of days before the fine is due then express post them a letter explaining the situation.
2. 6 months later they'll write you a letter saying some BS about not being able to let you off for such an offence regardless of your previous driving history or extenuating circumstances.
They will also give you another 14 days to pay.
3. Write them another letter asking for copies of relevant documents (radar calibration, brand, model, area's radar suitability survey etc.)
4. 6 months later they'll send you a letter saying that you have to contact the freedom of info bureau or some such rubbish.
They will give you another 14 days to pay.
5. Request the info from the Freedom of info bureau... they will take another couple of months to get the cops to send over the info.
By now it has been at least 13-14+ months since you got the fine! The documents have more than likely been lost or archived in hard to retrieve places.
See the cops pass on the details to the infringement processing bureau (just a copy of the infringement notice) and then consider their job done... if they hear nothing for ages (1+ years) they generally archive the other info and couldn't be f'cked retrieving it.
Its like in any job... you give marketing something... they didn't do anything with it and then come back 1 year later asking for more details... you're like well f'ck off then its not my fault you can't do your job properly!
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 09:18
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| Toobs wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 17:05 |
1. Wait until a couple of days before the fine is due then express post them a letter explaining the situation.
2. 6 months later they'll write you a letter saying some BS about not being able to let you off for such an offence regardless of your previous driving history or extenuating circumstances.
They will also give you another 14 days to pay.
3. Write them another letter asking for copies of relevant documents (radar calibration, brand, model, area's radar suitability survey etc.)
4. 6 months later they'll send you a letter saying that you have to contact the freedom of info bureau or some such rubbish.
They will give you another 14 days to pay.
5. Request the info from the Freedom of info bureau... they will take another couple of months to get the cops to send over the info.
By now it has been at least 13-14+ months since you got the fine! The documents have more than likely been lost or archived in hard to retrieve places.
See the cops pass on the details to the infringement processing bureau (just a copy of the infringement notice) and then consider their job done... if they hear nothing for ages (1+ years) they generally archive the other info and couldn't be f'cked retrieving it.
Its like in any job... you give marketing something... they didn't do anything with it and then come back 1 year later asking for more details... you're like well f'ck off then its not my fault you can't do your job properly!
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I have just tried this exact thing. After so many months of asking for documents and such, I finally got a letter from SPER's saying that the time I had to argue in court was up and that I had to pay the fine. I had my solicitor write back to SPER's saying I have a legal right to have my day in Court and all the bullshit. This went back and forward for a while until I was finally allowed my day. I turned up to court and basically said that I didn't aggree with what the officer accused me of, the magistrate then asked if I was accusing the cop of lying, I said no and that the cop was simply mistaken. To my surprise the magistrate then said that purgery cases could not be dealt with in a magistrate court and she would sending this to the blah blah blah court. I thought this was all cool until my solicitor said that if I turn up to this court it will cost me 10k and upwards and if I don't turn up it will be around 8k.
So if your planning on arguing your case, make sure you think carefully about what you say
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 09:26
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Rob, I was still in second gear too! 92km/h! I was accelerating fast, but I was certainly not doing 92...... I think that's a really good point you raised about the acceleration thing and I will be using it in my letter. Thanks bud.
And Toobs, I'm gonna follow your instructions too. Just for an experiment.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 10:31
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bah, as if your car couldnt do 100 in second!
from listening to friends experiences, writing letters usually gets you nowhere. sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you just delay the inevitable or end up paying more. however one friend of mine just simply didnt pay it, ignored all the letters then some time later (within a year) got a letter saying some crap about a statute of limitations i think, something about how it was too long ago for them to follow up so the fine was dropped. WTF???
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Registered:
June 2003
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 12:48
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Well, the whole "writing a letter" thing does work sometimes. I did it and got off.
I just made sure I did my homework - took digicam photo's of the road where it happened, gave a clear and concise argument. As long as you don't just waffle and bs, and your argument seems reasonable, you stand a shot at getting off.
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Location:
western suburbs,sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 13:01
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Remember when they had wrx cop cars years ago they got taken off the road due to their faulty speedos being out by a couple of k's innocent motorists were getting done. 
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 13:20
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| Cool1 wrote on Sun, 05 December 2004 22:28 |
They dont have to show you a reading or calibration date anymore.
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they have to in nsw i have been pulled over before and the policeman has said that he got me doing 115 in a 100 zone i knew this was bs so i asked for the reading he said i dont have to show you i repeated my request, didnt wait for his reply and promptly walked over to the drivers side door. the screen which says his speed and my speed said 0 and 0 respectively. The policeman called me all sorts of names under the sun and left with his tail between his legs.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 13:27
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| skit wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 15:28 |
I'd be interested to know how radar guns work, and what their limitations are. Does their accuracy depend on how they are used, or are they a fool proof "point and shoot" item? Are their different types that are used?
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There most certainly is why do u think police do courses to teach them how to correctly use radar guns.
Handheld radar guns must be used at a 15 degree angle to the road to get accurate speed readings. I do not know about the car mounted ones.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 13:27
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| 4agte wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 23:20 |
| Cool1 wrote on Sun, 05 December 2004 22:28 |
They dont have to show you a reading or calibration date anymore.
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they have to in nsw i have been pulled over before and the policeman has said that he got me doing 115 in a 100 zone i knew this was bs so i asked for the reading he said i dont have to show you i repeated my request, didnt wait for his reply and promptly walked over to the drivers side door. the screen which says his speed and my speed said 0 and 0 respectively. The policeman called me all sorts of names under the sun and left with his tail between his legs.
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For over 2 years now rules have been changed and they do not have to show you any reading at all. In fact most high way patrol cars dont have any way to show you the speed you were doing.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 13:31
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| 4agte wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 23:27 |
Handheld radar guns must be used at a 15 degree angle to the road to get accurate speed readings.
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I'd like to know where you got this information from.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 13:39
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to answer ur first post they might not in qld but i can assure u this cop was very pisse at me it was not like he was gonna let me off they have to show u the reading otherwise i guarantee u it wont stand up in court when they are standing in the box and my barraster is asking them why they couldnt show me the reading the judge will want to know why they couldnt aswell if they were so called telling the truth. If the police car has no way of telling your speed then how do they know ur speeding??
About ur second post i spent alot of time researching radar detectors and the like and came across a guy who was an ex highway patrol officer in the states who now tests radar detectors. He was giving a demonstration of the same radar gun as used in the nsw police force i think it was either hawk or something of the same it was a while ago.
He said that the radar needed to be at 15 degrees to the road to provide an accurate reading
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 13:52
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| 4agte wrote on Mon, 06 December 2004 23:39 |
to answer ur first post they might not in qld but i can assure u this cop was very pisse at me it was not like he was gonna let me off they have to show u the reading otherwise i guarantee u it wont stand up in court when they are standing in the box and my barraster is asking them why they couldnt show me the reading the judge will want to know why they couldnt aswell if they were so called telling the truth. If the police car has no way of telling your speed then how do they know ur speeding??
About ur second post i spent alot of time researching radar detectors and the like and came across a guy who was an ex highway patrol officer in the states who now tests radar detectors. He was giving a demonstration of the same radar gun as used in the nsw police force i think it was either hawk or something of the same it was a while ago.
He said that the radar needed to be at 15 degrees to the road to provide an accurate reading
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Ok this is where I state that I am one of very few that setup radar and laser units in mobile cars through out Australia. As I said its been over 2 years since the police have had to show speed readings.
All the new high way cars I fit out have 3 cameras fitted. One on the C pillar facing the rear, one on the dashing facing the speedo and one on the A pillar facing forward. All three cameras are being recorded. The idea of this is so when a car goes speeding past the unmarked cop car, the video of the speedo will show the speeding car is obviously speeding. Again this is in all states. Yes even in NSW. These new cars are the reason the laws were changed as there no way to show what speed the offender was doing, but it does show dangerous driving.
As for your incorrect information on handheld radars, I think your a little confused with handheld lasers. Handheld lasers have to be pointed in a tight angle at the number plate and not at the windscreen like people think. Pointing a laser at the windscreen can allow the light to penetrate and bounce off the side window giving two reflected beams giving an incorrect reading. All handheld radars in use today are fool proof and dont need to be held in any special way at all.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 14:12
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so what brand of radars do they use?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 21:51
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| 4agte wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 00:07 |
if this is the case in nsw then y did they ask my father when he got pulled over if he wanted to see the reading. Why did the cop that pulled me over in his car have a display showing both his and the speeding cars speed. All highway patrol cars i have seen have this feature.
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Because most police dont know the law that they are employed to enforce.
The old equipment that used to be fitted had provision to see speeds. This equipment does not get used most districts as their budget allows the new equipment to be used. However some districts dont have the budget for new gear so they get the old stuff reinstalled in their new cars.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 21:54
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| 4agte wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 00:12 |
so what brand of radars do they use?
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What district are you talking about?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Mon, 06 December 2004 23:13
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Do those garage door openers/laser jammers work here in Oz?
Has there been any testing on them Cool1?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 00:26
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Laser jammers do work on the old laser units that were first put into use here however the new Gen units are not susceptible to the current to jammers(yet).
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 01:03
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hmm interesting
| Quote: |
All handheld radars in use today are fool proof and dont need to be held in any special way at all.
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except for that they must be pointed at the numberplate?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 01:34
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| RobST162 wrote on Tue, 07 December 2004 11:03 |
hmm interesting
| Quote: |
All handheld radars in use today are fool proof and dont need to be held in any special way at all.
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except for that they must be pointed at the numberplate?
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No. Only the lasers have to be pointed at the plates, although most users point them at the windscreen anyway.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 01:37
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how do I know what they were using? 
anyway, my numberplate was bent right over heheh so I guess it was a hand held radar or he would have said something
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 01:44
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The lasers normally have a sholder support with a big sight on top where as the radars are just a basic hair dryer shaped thing.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 01:45
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hmm well he brought it over to my car, so radar I am guessing thanks bro
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 01:48
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I wouldn't ever let it get to court... just slow the process down by writing letters.
Hopefully by the time you have to make the decision to either take it to court or pay the fine they will have tripped themselves up or passed the statute of limitations.
They won't go to court unless they're pretty confident they'll win so if you get this far just pay the fine.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 01:53
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thanx toobs
| Quote: |
I wouldn't ever let it get to court... just slow the process down by writing letters.
Hopefully by the time you have to make the decision to either take it to court or pay the fine they will have tripped themselves up or passed the statute of limitations.
They won't go to court unless they're pretty confident they'll win so if you get this far just pay the fine.
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yeah, done all that and now I am in SDRO territory so I have to pay $50 just to go to court 
but the accusation was so bogus I really don't feel like paying (and thereby legally agreeing with) the accusation - even a downgrade would be fantastic
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Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 02:45
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how long is the statue of limitations?? meaning how long is it befor it must be dismissed??
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: radar question
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Tue, 07 December 2004 08:37
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in regards to how do the radar systems work out your speed...
firsty n electromagnetic pulse is transmitted directed at the target. this travels at a roughly constant speed (constant enough for the accuracy that any road user is concerned about)
this pulse hits your vehicle and is reflected by the solid surfaces of your car. this refelected component is detected by the gun which can then eaisly determine the distance between it and your vehichle. (C/time)/2 speed of light/time taken between send and recieve / 2 (round trip)
this is then repeated momentarily after giving two distances and a time period between them. so the speed is determined by
(distance A - Distance B)/time
the time between the two pulses is generally a matter of milli seconds so your rate of acceleration is not going to effect the timing *that* much.
i wouldnt plan of using the "your gun is inaccurate becasue i was accelerating" story on backing up your case. esp if your going to court.
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(just wanna prove a point to the dickhead who issued it) . The thing is she was at the shops getting change for the meter, as soon as she gets back, there's a big indian dickhead pulling out his notepad and starts writing the ticket. She tells him what she was doing and he just keeps writing, so she's sitting there waiting in the car for him to finish it off, just in case he already had the plate number... The reason is "park after meter expired"