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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 03 September 2004 03:11
 
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| HyDrA wrote on Fri, 03 September 2004 13:08 |
I know i've kept you all waiting... but oh well...
Excuse the lack of filter, I still need to pick one up (what should I get? apexi pod?)
http://www.users.on.net/hydra/cars/celixx/images/s wap/pipe
It's not pretty, but function takes priority over form 
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Not too shabby at all. What did the silicon bend cost ya?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 03 September 2004 03:15
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More than I'd think it'd cost
I'll go look for the price... I might still have a receipt.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 03 September 2004 03:18
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I'd love to look at the pics Chris, but can't access the site from work  Same goes for Miss Universe's ass (shabby or not)
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 03 September 2004 03:19
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$75 for a 70mm 90° silicone bend from ASE...
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 03 September 2004 03:20
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Fri, 03 September 2004 12:48 |
I'd love to look at the pics Chris, but can't access the site from work Same goes for Miss Universe's ass (shabby or not)
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Hahah.... is there any site that you can see pics on? Or would having an external proxy server help? 
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 03 September 2004 03:47
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Oh yeh, the intercooler you see in those pics is a standard GT4 item... thankfully bbaacchhyy had an ARC version of this cooler...
http://www.users.on.net/~hydra/images/toymods/pic0 00024.jpg
Just need to get it welded up with new pipes, and at least one new end tank... and get that BOV taken off, a pipe welded on, and all that so I can use it as a plub back
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 03 September 2004 09:07
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going all stainless on the GT4 .. easier , comes in the bits i need at a good price + mate can weld it for me where needed 
the aloy end tanks on the cooler make up for blingage factor ..
and rocket industries have pretty cheap silicon reducers/joiners too ( compared to other places ive tried )
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 03 September 2004 11:42
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Ah jeez,
I really could not be fucked reading all of this, but honestly aluminium cooler pipes to save weight, Fuck all 200grams. Are we building multi million dollar race cars here or wat. For bling bling i used stainless cooler pipes which are polished, for price if you dont give a shit how it looks mild steel, and if you can afford it the ultimate would be aluminium but i doubt in the applications of ppl who frequent these forums it would make fuck all difference. You could have more performance gained from a PROPERLY desinged pipe work, ie. SHORT as possible and smaller diameter pipe work to get the flow up. I would think in our application that LAG associated with filling up 4000000000000000 cc of intercooler pipework would be more important that the benifits of using aluminium cooler pipes. Remember we aint building RACE CARS ffs.
Cheers Adam
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Wed, 08 September 2004 14:16
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ALLOY, MILD STEEL, STAINLESS STEEL, TITANIUM?????
are you guys all freakin nutz.
its obvious that the best material for intercooler pipes is PVC  i found the cheapest place to get it from was bunnings, although they do keep it in a strange location, one would think it would be in the automotive section, but fo sum strange reason they keep it in the reticulation section 
they even stock 45 and 90 degree mandrel bends, its farkn fantaztic. Not to mention the pre fabricated BOV inline adaptors.
Hope this helps
MWUHAHHAHAAH
Matty
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Wed, 08 September 2004 23:08
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My friends laughed at me when I bought PVC pipe for my intercooler plumbing. Well, who's laughing now?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 03:23
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The intercooler does the cooling... not the pipes
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 03:38
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| HyDrA wrote on Thu, 09 September 2004 12:53 |
The intercooler does the cooling... not the pipes
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So the aim to keep the air as hot as possible until it gets to the intercooler? Or to stop heat being radiated out through the piping as well as the cooler? I would have thought that the air post-turbo and even post intercooler is usually going to be hotter than the environmental air (unless is cases of extreme heat soak ...where the turbo isn't going to be used anyway such as idling or slow traffic) Or is the air sufficently heated by the radiator etc to make it hotter than the intake air in the piping?
Not that it makes much difference - but it'd be interesting to hook up some thermocouples and a datalogger to find out which material suits the car best.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 03:47
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Most of your intercooler pipes are being routed through the engine bay. Do you have any idea how hot it can get inside your engine bay? Turbo cars especially get incredibly hot under there!
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 04:16
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| Quote: |
My friends laughed at me when I bought PVC pipe for my intercooler plumbing. Well, who's laughing now?
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does PVC really work??
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 04:23
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| brett_celicacoupe wrote on Thu, 09 September 2004 14:16 |
| Quote: |
My friends laughed at me when I bought PVC pipe for my intercooler plumbing. Well, who's laughing now?
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does PVC really work??
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note the part that i bolded
| Wildsupra wrote on Thu, 09 September 2004 00:16 |
ALLOY, MILD STEEL, STAINLESS STEEL, TITANIUM?????
are you guys all freakin nutz.
its obvious that the best material for intercooler pipes is PVC i found the cheapest place to get it from was bunnings, although they do keep it in a strange location, one would think it would be in the automotive section, but fo sum strange reason they keep it in the reticulation section
they even stock 45 and 90 degree mandrel bends, its farkn fantaztic. Not to mention the pre fabricated BOV inline adaptors.
Hope this helps
MWUHAHHAHAAH
Matty
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[Updated on: Thu, 09 September 2004 04:25]
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 04:37
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Someone should show pics of their PVC intercooler piping
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 08:12
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Considering i have never tried this but is a car enginnerable with pvc intercooler pipe work?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 08:32
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Sarcasm people, SARCASM.
Oh and did someone ask for pics? From the Norbie archives:
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Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 09:20
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| Alainve wrote on Wed, 01 September 2004 19:08 |
Mild steel is the best material for barbeque plates.
-disperses heat evenly, hard wearing generally non toxic
Stainless is shit for barbeque plates.
- poor conductor of heat needs massive burners to heat evenly without cold spots. harder wearing than mild steel but is heavier and some grades are toxic
Aluminium is also shithouse for barbeque plates.
- altho the best dispersion of heat for even cooking also has downsides of very soft so plastic utensils should be used to avoid shavings in your sausages and has also been linked to alzheimers disease.
in the end stop arguing like biatches over small things and think about your sausages
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now that some new materials have been introduced ill add some more
PVC is NOT to be used for barbeque plates due to high temperatures and extreme conditions of a barbeque. highly toxic with low melting point(before your sausages are cooked) also extermely soft means utensils should not be used on it.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 10:25
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NORBIE - your a champ ay, i am also using the new found underated material known as PVC on my 1J so far no probs at all and it has been on there for just over a year, since i did my 1J conversion. And yes every laughed and sed it wont work blah blah blah, the thing is in stock form i managed to run a 14flat with the only mod being the PVC pipes, now there were other supras at the drags at the same time with mods, including boost and xzaust and even cooler which were runnin 14.1's
Do the maths people, its obvious that the PVC made a KILLA difference to 1/4 times due to there excellent flow capabilities
well maybe it woz my superb driving 
Matty
p.s. dont be afraid of the PVC!!!!!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Northern Beaches
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 11:46
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ive got a new cooler to put on, where would the best place to get some mild steel piping be? Im on the northern beaches if anyone knows a good place.
I also need to go from existing piping, which I think is 2 1/4 or 2 1/2 inch upto 3inch for the new cooler, whats the best/cheapest way to do this? Do they have size changes in mild steel?
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 12:05
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 09 September 2004 18:32 |
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While I think that using silicon connectors, alum etc is a total wank...after seeing that pic, I might just spend a few bucks on steel or rubber piping and some rubber bends!!! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 12:25
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didn't you keep blowing the pipes up with too much boost norbie?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 13:37
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Um... that's a 6M in those pics, and I never turbocharged it, and I thought it was fairly obvious I wasn't being serious!
For the remainder of the humour impaired, DON'T use PVC for your intercooler piping. Thankyou. That is all.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 14:41
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you got me!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 17:41
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| 3T-GTE wrote on Thu, 02 September 2004 12:19 |
Interesting thread...
Just wondering if mick knows/related to / is this person http://www.billzilla.org/smugstain.zip???
He certainly sounds familiar.
I could be wrong though. 
Shane, So what have you decided on as the best solution for your situation / budget?
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ahahah if that is you kingmick you look just like i expected
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Thu, 09 September 2004 21:45
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i remeber seeing a 4agze at toyota day a few years back that had PVC intercooler pipeing to a front mount i/c. not sure if i have any pics of it though.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 10 September 2004 02:07
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Stock jza70 cooler piping has a couple of plasticy/rubbery bends that go under the front radiator support thingy. Not as soft as rubber, and a definate plastic feel to them.
Coping with heat and oil would be a problem with PVC piping.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 10 September 2004 03:50
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I ran a small section of pvc when i had my 1g-gte in my celica. used the stock rubber hose to. worked quite well..
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 10 September 2004 09:21
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ohh NORBIE i thought u was being serious hahaha, although i didnt beeleev that it was connected on the 6M.
Ok so u guys still think its too dodgy ay, ahh well duznt matter, tha proof is in da pudding  and while it keeps holding up on the 1J i aint plannin on changing it.
Matty
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 10 September 2004 10:03
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how good is that! love it! now imagine painting the pvc in gold crome paint!bling bling bling! if it works and its in your budget range use it.what about AG pipe or yellow gas pipe(if it can hold gas under pressure it will hold boost safley). those pvc pics have made my day! id like to say that i would never ever give someone a hard time, ever, if they used pvc and did it themselves and it was all they could afford. its better to try than to be a dreamer. well done, you have shown what can be done on a tight budget, if it works its all good! materials make a small diffrence, when you are chasing a few horsepower they make a huge diffrence.
mick
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 10 September 2004 10:28
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For the record, the photos above are a mock-up of the intercooler pipes for my planned 6M-GTE project (which somehow turned into a 2JZ-GTE project, but that's another story). The idea was to get the general shape sorted using PVC, then take it to an exhaust shop and get them to replicate it in mild steel. It's a good way to save yourself a tow to the exhaust shop if you're a DIY'er.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 10 September 2004 15:10
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Actually, the Crown is running a section of 3inch PVC piping in the intercooler tract at the moment. (mind you it is AFTER the awesome Garrett IC in the nose) 11.04@125 with PVC piping. Sounds rather stupid eh? I was planning to change it-but considering it is out of sight and mind, and has provided no probs thus far, it's staying right where it is.
You can use it, but you need to assess the temps it will see-both internal and external.
Sean
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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theory Question
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Fri, 17 September 2004 13:26
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OK back to what could have been a really good discussion
IMHO Mild steal shoul dbe avoided if $$ allow, If your like me and your car has regular periods of not being driven then the chance of it Oxidising internally isn't something that apeals to me.
Stainless verse Alloy.
BOTH will work very nicely, are great and flexible mediums for a tallented fabricator and will last for bloody ages !
The question I have is this:
After the intercooler the air charge is nice and cold (if all is working well) Given the underbonnet temps will always be higher than the freshly cooled intake charge which medium (Alloy or stainless) will deliver the coolest charge to the throttle body for
a) - A road car (prelonged driving periods)
b) - A 1/4 mile car (short quick driving periods)
Assume both mediums are of equal thickness
A short reason as to why would be nice and punctuation is a requirement Poor spelling (like mine) is acceptable lol
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: theory Question
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Sat, 18 September 2004 03:03
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| thetoyman75 wrote on Fri, 17 September 2004 23:26 |
IMHO Mild steal shoul dbe avoided if $$ allow, If your like me and your car has regular periods of not being driven then the chance of it Oxidising internally isn't something that apeals to me.
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That's why you get it HPC coated (internally AND externally), which is what I did. This acts as a great insulator and also eliminates the possibility of corrosion.
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Location:
perth WA
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Sat, 18 September 2004 14:59
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If you had the money, could carbon fiber be used for intercooler piping? Apart from cost, what would be the disadvantages of using it?
Cheers
Jeff
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Sat, 18 September 2004 15:51
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| stumpy wrote on Sun, 19 September 2004 00:59 |
If you had the money, could carbon fiber be used for intercooler piping? Apart from cost, what would be the disadvantages of using it?
Cheers
Jeff
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they have in some jgtc cars
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Wed, 22 September 2004 10:43
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My personal opinion is use what ever you can get made up easily and within your budget. steel, ally or stainless will work fine on a road car. Your better off spending your time and money improving flow and cooler efficiency.
Now if you want to get all technical about it, here is my 2 cents worth.
Turbo to Intercooler - Use aluminium. This will allow you to start knocking down the inlet temp before the intercooler.
Aluminium has the best heat transfer of the three materials and the compressed air will be a lot hotter than your engine bay temp. Anyone who thinks otherwise obviously has no idea about what happens to air when it is compressed. Yes it will get a little heat soak while sitting at the traffic lights but compared to your on boost temps it is nothing.
Intercooler to inlet - I would use stainless and wrap it in insulation so that the cooled air doesn't get any hotter.
Note my use of colour.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2004
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Fri, 24 September 2004 04:02
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| SupraPete wrote on Fri, 24 September 2004 13:34 |
Getting your turbo header coated/wrapped is great, keeps the heat in. Getting your dump pipe coated is good for keeping your firewall cooler.
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It's also good for not melting steering components, for those of us who have the dump pipe almost touching the steering rack.
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 01:48
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| manmx83 wrote on Fri, 24 September 2004 02:15 |
Regarding the price of coating mild steel-$12 a foot hpc inside and out in a choice of colours.
HPC coatings Brendale [bris] 07 38810885. I am taking some dump pipes there tomorrow,havent used it before.1 week turnaround is a bit of a drag but price is reasonable and I love mild steel as being user friendly particularly with ease of availability of mandrel bends etc.
I will definitely try it for my I/cooler piping.
More info and less insults in these posts would be great-but hey,its entertaining for the fence-sitters! :lol:sorry for the empty posts above.Doh!
Cheers.Pete.
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I was quoted alot more than that to get my dump coated, somewhere in the region of $90 a foot.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 02:44
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| Special Ed wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 12:28 |
I must disagree, any heat that can be retained inside the dump pipe will maintain gas velocity and reduce back pressure.
All good for turbocharger performance.
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You can disagree whatever you want, this IS the internet after all
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Wouldn't back pressure suck MORE pressure from the other side of the turbo? Thus making it spin even faster - quicker/more boost.
Please define "back pressure". I don't think its gas moving back towards the engine, or a pressure wave moving back towards the engine?
I thought it was when your exhaust was too thin. By all means have it as big as you want! Just don't keep the heat in it.
By your logic above, why not have a very thin but VERY fast flowing dump & exhaust (which has very high gas velocity) instead of a nice big dump & exhaust?
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 03:05
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Back presure is any sort of resistance to flow.
Less resistance to flow = more gas can escape the turbine area = more gas can flow freely through the turbo = more HP.
Hot air moves more quickly away from the turbine area. You still need a high volume (big pipes) but a hot big pipe is better still.
Some of the best 1j exhaust systems now incorporate a 4 inch section after the turbo, big volume there = big HP.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 03:45
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| Special Ed wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 14:05 |
Some of the best 1j exhaust systems now incorporate a 4 inch section after the turbo, big volume there = big HP.
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Big volume is great! If it was cold *I* believe it'd be even better. I can't see why high heat (and velocity) would be a good thing (after the turbo). Theres always going to be restrictions on the pipe like cat/muffler.
Trying to think how to test it. Maybe simply do a run before then after putting heat tape on the dump pipe. See if theres any difference in where the boost rises or peaks (and of course see the HP difference).
What do they do on big $$$ turbo drag cars etc.?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 03:47
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Maybe put a boost guage on the dump pipe and see what the pressure is when its wrapped vs not wrapped.
All maybes when I don't have a turbo'd car.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 04:09
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| SupraPete wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 14:45 |
| Special Ed wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 14:05 |
Some of the best 1j exhaust systems now incorporate a 4 inch section after the turbo, big volume there = big HP.
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Big volume is great! If it was cold *I* believe it'd be even better. I can't see why high heat (and velocity) would be a good thing (after the turbo). Theres always going to be restrictions on the pipe like cat/muffler.
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it's a balancing act.
when you loose heat in an exhaust, you loose both volume (higher density) and velocity, and the properties of the gas change...
friction with a surface is higher with a more dense gas, but velocity also increases friction . you also change the speed of sound in the exhaust gas, but post turbo, this is not a big deal (it is for NA cars)
think of it this way.... take 2 syringes and fill one with water, and the other with chocolate topping. now squirt them both... water is easier to squirt as less resistance... but if you squirt the water faster, there will be more resistance...
same for hot/cold gas.
i also agree that cat/muffler are large restrictions, but by then, the temp and velocity will have decreased markedly anyway (compared to pre/post turbo)
basically we are talking about a 3fold increase/decrease of gas volume.... if someone wants to do some fluid flow calculations (based on straight pipe and normal wall friction), please do
Cya, Stewart
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 04:34
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| SupraPete wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 13:44 |
Please define "back pressure". I don't think its gas moving back towards the engine, or a pressure wave moving back towards the engine?
I thought it was when your exhaust was too thin.
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SupraPete,
For those of us with a Dyno in the next room Backpressure is easily measured. It is as the name suggests, the amount of pressure in the exhaust at a given load. We regularly test it here under load and at full noise on the Dyno. Its actually quite interesting to see the differences. A 3" mandrel bent exhaust and a 3" mandrel bent exhasut can have some HUGE variances. It really does go to show the importance of having them built by someone who understands gas flow, not just any old exhaust builder.
As for hot verse Cold, I think Stu has that covered lol
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 04:57
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| SupraPete wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 14:45 |
[ Theres always going to be restrictions on the pipe like cat/muffler.
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it always was a wonder to me why people upgraded the back end (CAT back) of thier exhaust before the front end !!
Once the gas has reached as far as the cat it has cooled /condensed considerably and the flow rate is not as crucial as it is in the first few feet, (ie less than 2).
For perfromace - upgrade the dumps to cat section if you must only do half !! There will be a greater performance increase.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 05:09
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| Special Ed wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 15:57 |
it always was a wonder to me why people upgraded the back end (CAT back) of thier exhaust before the front end !!
Once the gas has reached as far as the cat it has cooled /condensed considerably and the flow rate is not as crucial as it is in the first few feet, (ie less than 2).
For perfromace - upgrade the dumps to cat section if you must only do half !! There will be a greater performance increase.
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Ed,
We get allot of woodducks calling here about exhausts, the easiest way to explain it is that an exhaust system will only flow as well as its worst restriction, (same as an intake)
Backpressure is measured as close to the back of the turbo as is possible, usually the base of the dump pipe. We have been know to measure either side of a cat or muffler if we are tracing a flow blockage in a unflanged system.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 05:50
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| thetoyman75 wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 15:34 |
As for hot verse Cold, I think Stu has that covered lol
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Covered - yes.
Answer to if its good to thermo wrap a dump pipe - no (not that I could find).
Not knocking the info, was good info, just didn't answer the question/debate.
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If its good to keep heat in the exhaust to keep flow up, why not wrap the whole bloody thing in thermo tape etc. to keep the heat in it up to and past the mufflers/cat/etc. Appart from the $$$ expense.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Intercooler piping
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Mon, 13 December 2004 05:52
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| Special Ed wrote on Mon, 13 December 2004 15:57 |
it always was a wonder to me why people upgraded the back end (CAT back) of thier exhaust before the front end !!
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Thats where all the sound is.
More sound = more power @ the ears.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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