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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 14:13
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Hey people,
i just bought my MA61 and it had a 5ME in it. When she is warmed up to about 4 or 5 bars on the heat gauge i usually take it out to about 5000 when i want to give people a thrill (or myself) and it back fires!! now it has a 2.5" press bent with a 3" straight through cannon style muffler and not only does it back fire 3x louder, but 30cm flames blow out the muffler. It is very cool and at night always impresses everyone!! But is this bad at all, and i have come to the conclusion that the stock 5ME ecu has been tuned to run rich to get more performance hence exploding fuel.. Wat is the deal, does anyone know if this is normal or if anyone else gets this from there 5ME ??
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 14:20
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ECU is not tunable. car is running rich - or the ECU at least thinks it needs that much extra fuel.
mine does this too - is a PITA after a while - plus it destroys the baffles in your muffler.
check for air leaks around intake and related hardware.
backfire is also from engine not shutting off fuel quick enough when you lift foot off loud pedal - am not sure how to cure that - some folks reckon the TPS needs minor repositioning. i've given up re-positioning it.
another inducer might be the air-injection thing on the exhaust side - it pumps air into ehaust to aid with complete combustion of unburnt fuel.
i'm curing it my replacing the ECU (and some related engine sensors).
btw - you got from Bris to Syd in time for the boat? how long did the drive down take?
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 14:29
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well i coudln't go through the pain of sitting around in little towns doing fuck all, so i drove from Bris to Port Macquarie on the first day, then PM to sydney, so it took 2 days, but i could have done it in 1, its not a hard drive at all, there are signs along the way but heaps of the speed limit is 100 and there are cameras everywhere, but i stopped every 5 hours to get a drink and hav a walk and mainly to fuel up, but it took 2 full tanks of premium so i would say around 12-13 hours plus stop for 1 night and i actually left 2 days before the boat came to give myself plenty of time but stayed in sydney for 1 night.
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 14:32
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yes it does run heaps to rich, there is no leaks either, i think the 5ME has been tuned to run a little rich to give it that extra performance, that a car from the early 80's needs, it is fucking awesome tho, and my muffler has a 2 year warranty!! but its a 3" straight through cannon style, so there really isn't much preventing flow, my entire system is stock manifold onto a 2.5" pipe onto a resinator (due to no cat) then onto the 3" muffler, wat about yers
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 14:50
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glad you got home in 1 piece and without any legal reminders of your trip 
my zorst is:
extractors (unknown brand) 6:2:1
2 3/4" pipe (i think, could be 2 1/2") to resonator under car
same piping to a lukey sport muffler (straight thru thing, basically a cannon muffler that's been flattened)
3" tip
the resonator undeath me is close to useless, the lukey is 6 months old and still intact
the engine's the same as you'll find in a MX6x cresidda - i'm actually running the ECU and AFM from wilbo's old cresidda parts-car. i think a lot of the performance comes from good gearbox and diff ratios. Adding the zorst will have gotten rid of some flow restrictions.
if you think the 5ME's a fun ride, wait till you transplant a 1J or better under the bonnet 
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 21:14
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well my intention is to goto a 6MGE next cause i have never done an engine swap, and i hear its simple bolt in and performance is quite substantual from simply swapping to this engine (145kw or there so), but i would love to goto a 1JZ, but i am an engine swap noob so i need some practice and the confidence to do so.. I also need some money!! What does it go like with a set of extractors, i was thinking of getting a set, but maybe i should waste $380 and just put that towards a $800 6MGE!!
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 22:46
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my car used to do the same thing when my uncle had a huge muffler on it, duel 3 inch tips, back off third gear on the freeway and bang flame. Currently, if you blip the throttle say up to four wehn warming the car idling you can hear pops in the exhaust even with the stock muffler back on, no flames though.
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 23:06
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yes yes yes that is correct, my exhaust burbles heaps, like when i leave it in gear slowing down its growls and burbles heaps and all the commodore drives go 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 23:28
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| TRD_Supra wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 01:32 |
yes it does run heaps to rich, there is no leaks either, i think the 5ME has been tuned to run a little rich to give it that extra performance, that a car from the early 80's needs, it is fucking awesome tho
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Umm... not sure how to tell ya this, but rich doesn't = powerful.
if it's running rich under load, you'll definately find power by pulling fuel out of the thing, until it runs at/near the ideal ratio (16:1 by mass, I think). 90's 6cyl Falcons are notoriously rich, and I've read of plenty of folks finding 10-15kw by getting a piggyback chip installed to run the thing correctly. Manufacturers like running engines rich to protect the catalytic convertor when you're towing trailers up hills, and heat soaking the bejeezus out of the exhaust for 20-40 minutes. If you've got a clever dick tweaking your piggyback, they can leave the cat-protection stuff alone, so that she'll run rich & cool if you're "up it" for extended periods.
Leaner is meaner, as they say.
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 23:31
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1984 MA61 supra..... no cat... no i see wat your saying about the fuel mix
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Sun, 19 December 2004 23:44
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i want to get a photo of it blowing flames!!
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:11
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That is interesting 
My 5M-E is running a little rich all the time and it's driving me insane after the petrol prices... I am going to take it to someone who *knows* how to tune it. The 5M-E isn't a performance motor but it sure beats walking...
Cheers.
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:35
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no i wouldn't say it was a performace motor, but still it isn't to bad, in the supra it is able to beat VL's and R31's which isn't to bad! but i feel i need to bump upto the next stage and get myself a 1JZ 
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:39
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I know there is a flame thrower device from America but it's not right. 
Try and fix up the problem with the car running rich, have you checked the AFM and air filter to see if there may be a problem?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:40
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Oh yeah - if an engine leans-out too much at high RPM, you'll cook the exhaust valves, coz they just can't dissapate enough heat if the engine's lean + super-hot at big RPMs. Melting and/or damage where the valve lands on the seat, or bent/broken valve stems from the heat. FUN!
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:41
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well i dunno how u can tell if its lean or not, but i have noticed when it get over 5000 it feels like it has no more pick up, is that a sign of it being too lean ?
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:43
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around the back seal on the AFM the piping is a little bit kinked up, but doesn't look like it is letting any air in. I also have an idle problem, it seems to idle about 200-300 rpm less than it should. the 5ME should idle at 950 and mine idles around 600-700. I should check out this kink, in fact i might put some duct tape over just to create a nice seal!
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Location:
Castle Hill, Sydney
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:47
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hmmmmm....hold a lighter up to the exhuast tip and get somsoner to give it a huge rev
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 00:51
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hmmm maybe i should give it a try.... but i will b the one reving, not the one gettign BBQ'd it seems to only backfire when its at about 4-5 bars on the heat guage and when u rev it out enough to around 4500
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Location:
Campbelltown
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 03:07
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The reason for the drop off in power above 5 thousand is just like my car, peak power is produced at 4.4krpm prob similar for the 5me thus progress will slow when revving past this point. The 22re in the rona produces peak torque at 2.8krpm, thus by changing at 5 you put it right back in the middle of the torque curve say 3.2krpm
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 05:13
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To see if the car is running rich/lean is to check the spark plugs to see if it's wet or not in low rpm.
Cheers.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 05:35
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| ZZT231 wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 11:11 |
That is interesting
My 5M-E is running a little rich all the time and it's driving me insane after the petrol prices... I am going to take it to someone who *knows* how to tune it. The 5M-E isn't a performance motor but it sure beats walking...
Cheers.
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I'll be very surprised if you can find someone to "tune" the ecu, its analogue, not digital... very crude, and not tunable.
| TRD_Supra wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 |
around the back seal on the AFM the piping is a little bit kinked up, but doesn't look like it is letting any air in. I also have an idle problem, it seems to idle about 200-300 rpm less than it should. the 5ME should idle at 950 and mine idles around 600-700. I should check out this kink, in fact i might put some duct tape over just to create a nice seal!
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Maybe try spraying 'start you bastard' or something highly flammable around where you think it may be sucking in air? If there is an air leak it should pick up revs....
Also its really only if the air leak is after the AFM that you would effect anything (besides sucking a small amount of unfiltered air...)
| TRD_Supra wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 |
well i dunno how u can tell if its lean or not, but i have noticed when it get over 5000 it feels like it has no more pick up, is that a sign of it being too lean ?
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I'd be surprised if the 5me runs lean anywhere  , they seem to all run rich from what I have seen...the lack of pickup is just the engine (power curve etc), they are very 'breathless' at high rpm.
Cheers
Wilbo
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.vic.au
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Mon, 20 December 2004 08:41
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| wilbo666 wrote on Mon, 20 December 2004 16:35 |
... I'll be very surprised if you can find someone to "tune" the ecu, its analogue, not digital... very crude, and not tunable...
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If you can do the timing and adjust the AFM you should be able to do something with the engine running rich... I wasn't refering to altering the ECU anyway 
I have embarked in doing something to a spare ECU but only time will tell
Cheers.
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On Probation
Location:
Hobart
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 5ME Flamethrower / Back Fire
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Tue, 21 December 2004 00:27
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i don't think it is of great concern, i will eventually scrap the 5ME for a 1JZ  simple!
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