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SXY184
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Registered:
January 2004
3SGTE questions...2 Wed, 05 January 2005 09:35 Go to next message
hey all, bout to get my Microtech fitted to my other then stock gen 2 3SGTE dumpy,3 inch exhaust and 12.5 psi boost , in hope to run more then 15 psi, i plan to get a FMIC, but i got the stock pistons, should i change them to forgies, the reason i ask is i saw a thread in memebrs ride the other day, that a guy had a gen 1 stock 3SGTE running 23 psi with stock internals... , so hence my questions...

[Updated on: Wed, 05 January 2005 11:12]

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Classique71
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Colac, Victoria
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May 2002
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Wed, 05 January 2005 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yes - but hes also running an upgraded headgasket , arp headstuds and better rings on St205 pistons i believe ..

if you plan on making power - your HG wont survive on 15+ PSI for long ..

Anything above 15psi id sugest forgies as you need to think of the heat generated + stresses involved that you plan to generate
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SXY184
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January 2004
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Wed, 05 January 2005 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ta Classique71 for that reply, always soo quick , how is ya ride coming up , i got a TRD metal HG., so i think the head gasket would survive.. im jus worried bout the pistons... if i was to replace them , what is a good piston to use? any advice is appreciated...cheers!!
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Aust162
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Melb, Victoria
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April 2004
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Wed, 05 January 2005 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yep, 1st thing i thought was HG. you already have a metal trd one so it should be fine. Smile
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1gt48u
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Location:
newcastle
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April 2004
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Wed, 05 January 2005 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
using ross racing pistons in mine
dont know what others are doing

cheers Very Happy
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Joshstix
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Wed, 05 January 2005 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
As long as it doesn't detonate the pistons will last fine.

It's all in the tuning.
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Classique71
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Colac, Victoria
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May 2002
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
eagle , acl, arias , Jand E .. all good ive got a set of Je forgies here left over from my rebuild - couldnt use them as they are standard size ( 86mm ) and would only suit a lower KM block .. ( also one seems to be a bit smaller in overall diameter ) - sets going for $200 if they are of interest but youd need to check if you need honing of your walls - too much honing would make them useless ( as i found )

I had yo use oversize in mine as the bores needed to be honed
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foxtail
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Brisbane
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January 2005
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 01:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Josh had a piggyback ecu, metal gasket and was running 18? boost. Massive turbo and say 450hp, but he was determined to use stock pistons, and went through 5 sets till he changed his mind.

3SGTE pistons are crap!! very thin weak cast. Weisco sell nice forgies with rings 8.5:1 for $800 or so. I looked at other brands but they were either too expensive or too high compression.
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Classique71
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 01:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
weak cast ??

thats the first ive heard of them being sods ..

Ill have to check my spare 3sgte forgies + compare them to the spare 3sgte standards i have - to see how weak they look in comparision
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JustenGT4
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Canberra
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June 2003
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 03:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've run stock internals on 19psi at the race track for a long time and no probs. When something finally went wrong it was caused by high inlets temps from heat soak....nothing wrong at all with the 205 pistons.

I'm currently running stock internals with a Garrett GT2540 on 16psi...again no hint of issues and i don't expect any.

For street use the Gen II and Gen III 3SGTE internals are good for 400hp flywheel and will maintain good reliability.....that's assuming your support systems and tuning are healthy. Start competition use and you are approaching the limits of the metalurgy as the heat stresses increase enormously but for predominantly street use with drag events and the occassional sensible session at the track stock internals are just fine.

Save you money and put it towards a decent ECU as that's where power and reliability are made or lost.
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CelicaRA45
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nth ringwood, Victoria
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August 2002
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hey classic when you received your pistons did they give you a clearence for the bore to skirt of piston
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Classique71
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 06:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
they were low KM second hand ones out of a motor that had seen around 1000km after a rebuild - and no - got no info on them , sorry but i can ask my engineer to throw his verneers over them again to get measurments next chance i get to see him ..

Reason mainly that they werent used was they had too much bearance with the block i used - it needed a litte more honing then expected in the end - which is fine - runs happily along now with the one in it ( ACL's in it now )


OR if your about for this tsunami cruise they plan in vic - your welcome to look at them if you want - i can bring them up to melb and you can get any details you need off them .




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CelicaRA45
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 06:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
no its just most forge pistons need 4thou clearence at the skirt to bore so they wont seize up
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Classique71
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahh now i see where your heading .. and brain just decided to reload a memory for a change

mine ended up with over that - the clearance was too much - near 7-8 thou - engine builder said thjat was the reason the pistons coulsnt be used or something along those lines - too much " loosness "
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Joshstix
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 07:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
My Arias ones came with a spec sheat quoting 3 thou bore clearance.
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CelicaRA45
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nth ringwood, Victoria
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
also you can get the pistons coated that will put up 2thou on the shirts that can help also so if you have 6thou it will bring it back
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CelicaRA45
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nth ringwood, Victoria
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
for safe reving 4thou seems to be the safe margin ,the TRD 1s are made by weisco and there 4 also SPS forgings in melb ask for 4as well std cast pistons run 2 thou from memory
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Classique71
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 07:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmms - good point on the coating - never thought of that -

What do the usually use - HPC ?
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CelicaRA45
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nth ringwood, Victoria
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yep hpc in leongatha
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Joshstix
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Thu, 06 January 2005 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arias use a fairly high silicon alloy in their forgings allowing a lower expansion rate. They also quote to use a 2 thou clearance on their coated forged pistons.
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alliance_22
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October 2004
 
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Fri, 07 January 2005 05:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorry off topic... how much do forgies cost about?
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CelicaRA45
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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Fri, 07 January 2005 06:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SPS in melb make them about 1200 a set depending on the rings it uses some rings are 50 a piston to 100 apiston but 1200 aset with rings is the going rate and includes pins and snap locs as well
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matthew
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Location:
SA aus
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January 2005
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Fri, 07 January 2005 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ive just bought a st162 celica and i wanna put a 3sgte engine into it from a 165 frontcut. just wondering if all the mounts will match. is there any problems that i may come across in the conversion. plus i wanna keep it front wheel drive - is this possible.

this is most likely obvious to some so dont think im an idiot im just new to the toyota scene..........
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Classique71
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Colac, Victoria
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May 2002
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Fri, 07 January 2005 23:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
matt - on this forum a fair few guys have undertaken what you want to do

pop a 3sgte coversion or GT2 in the search function - and you should find a large chunk of the info you need mate .

( or hassle Draza )
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Toobs
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I Supported Toymods

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December 2002
 
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Sat, 08 January 2005 02:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joshstix wrote on Fri, 07 January 2005 10:48

Arias use a fairly high silicon alloy in their forgings allowing a lower expansion rate. They also quote to use a 2 thou clearance on their coated forged pistons.



Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't having a high silicon content a bad thing?
Higher silicon content would make the metal more brittle and less ductile wouldn't it?
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SXY184
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January 2004
Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Sat, 08 January 2005 08:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hey , jus wanna take the time to thank all you guys who took the time to hav a think and drop me a reply on this one, you all great !! Your advice has possibly save me at least $1500 in the way of droppin out engine,set of forgies, etc. labour costs..,

So again i send out the biggest thankyou to all who replyed..!

Thanks again,
Richie
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Joshstix
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Toymods Vice President

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Re: 3SGTE questions...2 Mon, 10 January 2005 01:17 Go to previous message
Toobs wrote on Sat, 08 January 2005 13:11

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't having a high silicon content a bad thing?
Higher silicon content would make the metal more brittle and less ductile wouldn't it?


As far as I'm concerned high silicon content is a good thing. It means the piston will have less thermal expansion, which in turn means the piston and rings will seal more effectively for more of the time and get less piston rock and slap. It also makes the surface a harder wearing which means the rings do not wear the ring lands like can happen in low silicon versions.

By High Silcon I mean about 8%, this is significantly less than all the hiper eutectic pistons you see being sold for high performance work that are all 15% plus.
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