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Registered:
May 2002
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spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 10:04
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Would there be much interest on a how-to spray painting guide for the DIY first-timer? I'm spraying my celica at the moment, and have found next to no information on the net. It's something that I thought would be around given the amount of people who ask in forums and such. The best help I've found are old friends who used to hot up torana's and such, at least some things stay the same, regardless how many computers you put in a car.
Just general info and pointers, general rules and correct procedure. it's something that can be done fairly cheaply with a good outcome at home, provided you have access to the equipment.
I am considering starting something up but I would need help from others who know what they are doing, just to correct me when I am wrong or add things I miss.
I would like to know if there would be general interest in the toymods community at least.
Tim.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 10:07
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absolutely, i'd love to know how to spray properly and stuff. One of those things that always comes in handy.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 10:18
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i am a spraypainter, i can answer a few questions and give out some good tips, then i can chew your ears about building fat motors!! 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 10:20
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I have searched!!! and searched nd searched and searched!!!
(i'll search once more to make sure...)
Tim.
PS I never said anything about spraying properly, just tips and what I found the best...
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 10:26
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i am seriously interested in an article like this - im literally in the midst of rubbing ack my car, bogging and hi filling - spraying is probably about 3-4 weeks away 
but i do recommend a search, theres quite a few write ups on here, as well as a few good links
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Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 10:58
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what kind of paint are you using? 2k? acrylic?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 11:24
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acrylic. I painted that primer on right there in the yard. I had to sand it though, came out real rough. Something to do with the sun I guess...
Tim.
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 11:31
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i too tried seachin but found sweet fark all, so writin a article would be great for other people to use asa guide.
the way i went about learnin what to do was to consult a spray painter in person. you do gotta remember that each car has a different condition of existing paint so if their old paint is fucked, then they would be best to strip it all off to bare metal. but if the existing paint isnt too bad then there is no need to "rip it all off" but rather to just sand it back a little
this is basically what i did if it helps at all
1.cut out rust and weld in patches. sandblast lesser rusty areas
2.bog dents to about 80 - 90 % perfection (high build primer fills the rest)
3.strip of all the existing paint (i used a 200mm sticky disc(36 grit) on a big grinder)
4. etch prime the whole car
5. use 'high build' primer
6. paint it
of course there is the sand + prep before each stage but that is roughly what i did.
also, ed have u done anythin with the tech article i wrote on power windows in my RA40 ?? did u even recieve the email??
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Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 11:52
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yup - got the article (all 6Mb!!) and have forwarded it on 
on topic - i am wanting to do my car in acrylic with a clear coat...
i would like some comments on what im doing::
i am bogging, high filling, primering and taking back with 400/600 all of the dings and dodgy surfaces...
the rest of the surface is in good nick, and i am simply attacking it with 240 to take the top layer of paint off, then a light primer, and a finishe with 400/600 again..
Q #1 - if ive used primer on one part of the car, and not another (red paint) will i get strange changes in the colour of my final product - ie light dark sections as a consequence of the colour of the under surface?
i plan on using acrylic as mentioned, with a clear coat. i plan to do say 5-6 coats of colour, with the last 2 coats of colour pre-mixed with clear, and then a final coat or 2 of clear over this. i understand this gives depth to the colour...
Q #2 - is this a good way to go? if doing it this way, do i need to wait for the colour coats to fully dry before doing the clear? if i do, do i need to cut/polish the surface of the colour coats before applying the clear. if not, is there any tips for how to progress from the colour, to the colour + clear, to clear for the absolute best results?
cheers
ed
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:01
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To the best of my knowledge...
Q1: depends on how many coats of colour. Obviously with enough colour everything will be fine but I don't know how many you'll need. Seeing primer is so cheap I'd say just give the whole thing a hit before you start colour. You'll probable see the dings better with it all grey.
Q2: I don't think you need to do anything between coats. if your final top coat looks a little rough, or has orange peeled a bit then you can give it a rub with 1000-1200 paper then clear over that. I too have heard the colour in clear for depth thing. Hasn't been confirmed though.
After doing the primer, lumps and waves in the bog work really stand out. things I couldn't even feel, I could see.
tim.
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:10
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i have tried the adding of coulor to clear before as an experiment on a pinki beige prelude, unfortunatly all it did was make it look like it only had one coat of clear? it looked very factory though 
as a rule on cars you let the colour 'flash' which is when most of your thinners has evap. between coats, about 5mins with an all purpose thinner, and clear HARD AND FAST!! as many big coats you can get on without over weighting it, runs in the clear can be 'sliced out' easy enough, but keep a rich mix for clear for depth and the top coat a little thinner (wetter) for a smooth finnish
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Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:23
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if you use acrylic its harder to save it because the clear has no hardener an doesn't like to be buffed as much, this is why 2k is better, you can slice, 2000 it and cut & polish almost the same day.
with your primer finnish, use a guide coat, or charcoal dust to find all your 'whoops' in the panels
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:28
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ed,
i wouldnt even bother with the acrylic because 2 pac isnt that much dearer.
this is roughly what it cost me doing a full bare metal respray minus the cost of some tools i had to buy
$50 - sand paper (yes those sticky disc are quite pricey)
$100 - $150 for thinners, wax and grease remover
$60 - etch primer (4L)
$60 - bog (my first time usin this stuff so alot went to waste. car was pretty dented though)
$15 - cutting/grindin discs for repairin rust
$150 - 2 pack high build spray filler (5L includin hardener and compatible thinners - $30)
$120 - another 5 ltrs of spray filler (yes that car was pretty bad)
$400 - materials the spray painter used + a few materials i used while i was sandin the car at the spray painters
$250 - labour the spray painter charged me
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$1205 - total cost of materials (including spray painter labour)
i would assume that if ure existing paint wasnt that bad, u could cut the cost back dramatically this is what ide do if my paint was in ok condition
1.take of big stuff like bumpers etc.
2.fix rust and bog dents to 90% perfection (if nessecary)
3.sand back whole car with 180 grit paper
4.apply 2pac high build spray filler
5. guide coat and rub back with 180 grit till black(guide coat) is rubbed away
6. wet sand back with 400 - 600 grit paper
7. apply colour and clear
so it might cost u something like this
$15 - bog
$20 - sand paper
$150 - 2 pack high build spray fill + compatible thinners
$300 - colour and clear (2pac)
$50 - other consumables
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$535 - total assuming u have all tools + equiptment
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:29
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a good finnish is about coverage, and even wet coats that are allowed to dry just right. if the coat is too wet, before recoating, it'll sag and with mettalics, debind. thats when it mixes with the previous coat and distorts the way the paint settles on the panel, too dry and it might not 'bite' in, but thats not really a problem, but pushing coats on is, esp. if your boss is nagging it to be out!
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:33
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yea if poss. don't use acrylic. it's finiky paint at the best of times, doesn't cover well and looks crap for your efforts.
2k oh yea baby! is so nice and easy and smooth and you can't really mess it up, i use and recommend Debeer paints. only down of 2k is it's illegal to paint at home cause of the isocyanates
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:37
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Yeah 2K would be nice but I want to spray it myself. besides I can't see it costing me any more than $300-$400 in materials for my acrylic.
4L of top - $150
tin-o-bog - $30
thinners/prepwash - $60-$80
primer - $30
sandpaper - $15 (I kept the existing paint)
I can't think of any more. It's late, my brain stopped working.
rokusan - so if you aren't being paid by the hour, then it's better to wait till the preceding coat is fairly dry before the next coat?
Tim.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:42
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this is also a backyard job - im not sure how feasible 2pk would be. nor how safe it all is 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:50
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I heard that acrylic was easier to repair if (when) I fuck it up.
I think 2 pak has the ability to kill you even if it only comes in contact with your skin... I'm usually not to careful (I'll be tasting thinners for a week just after 1 coat of primer) so I think I'll give it a miss.
Tim.
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:52
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yea be patient with it although you do have to hav a start and finish point on the car, start upwind, skyboothtechniques.com hahaha, point car into wind with overspray to neighbour least liked, and go....over left guard, bonnet, right guard, left door, front roof and pillars, right door, run around without tripping over, left 1/4, back roof, rh 1/4, rh back 1/4 (mmm celica 1/4's) boot/hatch, left rear 1/4 and tail light under tray etc. fall down panting and wait for 5 and start again! this is the method of the continuous WET EDGE, that'll be $550 please 
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:53
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 12 January 2005 23:42 |
this is also a backyard job - im not sure how feasible 2pk would be. nor how safe it all is
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easy fix, go and buy 6 or so tarps from supercheap (is what i did). 4 walls + roof + floor, tarps are cheap and reusable. and also buy a quality respirator
the neighbours will be to high to care 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:56
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I am finishing my car in a shed, not doing it all out in the open 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 12:57
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| brett_celicacoupe wrote on Wed, 12 January 2005 23:53 |
| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 12 January 2005 23:42 |
this is also a backyard job - im not sure how feasible 2pk would be. nor how safe it all is
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easy fix, go and buy 6 or so tarps from supercheap (is what i did). 4 walls + roof + floor, tarps are cheap and reusable. and also buy a quality respirator
the neighbours will be to high to care
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at the best of times a setup like this would still look uber dodgey at eds house.
im in the midst of a backyard acrylic spray job as well, my advice:
91% prep (read: constant pain)
10% paint
1% p00 factor
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 13:00
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| RA28 wrote on Wed, 12 January 2005 23:50 |
I heard that acrylic was easier to repair if (when) I fuck it up.
I think 2 pak has the ability to kill you even if it only comes in contact with your skin... I'm usually not to careful (I'll be tasting thinners for a week just after 1 coat of primer) so I think I'll give it a miss.
Tim.
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ease of repair is more about colour choice than paint. solid colours such as red, yellow, white etc, that dont have a clear but instead rely on the base being glossy and hardner in the base, are the easiest to touch up as you don't blend them, you paint the repaired panel only, it's called 'edge to edge'
and 2k is not that bad, i use very serious 2k's on heavy machinery where i work, just use a resparator and long clothes or where you get your paint from might give you a paper suit?
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 13:01
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thats 102%
perhaps i should rewrite your reference to make note of your superior math ability?
hows the spray going anyway rob?
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 13:04
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you should see my celica! it's painted in ayears worth of left over tinters hahaha it's got more pearls than QE2, and more flips than Mark Webbers merc's!! it's bluey, siver-grey, green with purple!!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 13:04
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| rokusan wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 00:00 |
long clothes or where you get your paint from might give you a paper suit?
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hmmm, use number #138 for my stolen set of surgical scrubs
alternatively - what kind of cost would be involved if i did all the prep (or as much as humanly possible to the standards of a pro) and then dropped it off and paid for a proper 2pk job?
anyone know anyone that would do this for me??
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Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 13:20
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| RA28 wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 00:05 |
I mean repair as in a fish eye or run or sag, or if you're say, finishing a primer coat at 8:30 and can barely see and you keep spraying mozzies to your doors...
can you sand 2k out and then paint back over it like acrylic?
tim.
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yea you'll always have bugs to digg out, on your best panels too! this is where your heavy clear comes in, get a razor blade and run it backwards across the run/bug up to 90 deg. to cut more, and then carefully wetand dry block it with 2000, and cut n' buff
yes you can sand back 2k, and paint over, the same. just clear up to good paint and block and cut the dry edge
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 13:23
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 00:04 |
| rokusan wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 00:00 |
long clothes or where you get your paint from might give you a paper suit?
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hmmm, use number #138 for my stolen set of surgical scrubs
alternatively - what kind of cost would be involved if i did all the prep (or as much as humanly possible to the standards of a pro) and then dropped it off and paid for a proper 2pk job?
anyone know anyone that would do this for me??
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ed,
that is exactly what i did. i did everything, even pushed it in the booth, wax + greas removed it in the booth.
then he come along, mixed 2K paint (debeer paint) and applied it + clear an i only paid him $650
and this was the finished product
brett
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 13:46
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ok - sounds fair
SO! who wants to offer me some kind of deal like this??! anyone?! 
i can prep, push, clean, mask, make lunch, buy beer, telephone a hooker... whatever...
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Wed, 12 January 2005 13:57
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1) Wait till you are getting paid decent money.
or
2) Tell her to come over here, use the travel loan to paint the car and built the engine.
or
3) dont worry it'll only get scratched in a carpark or stugged into something in a hillclimb anyway, color in with textas. I'll get M to do it next time you're over.
Plus it's after your bedtime
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 08:52
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[quote/]
that is exactly what i did. i did everything, even pushed it in the booth, wax + greas removed it in the booth.
then he come along, mixed 2K paint (debeer paint) and applied it + clear an i only paid him $650
[/quote]
very nice, good depth of colour?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 09:44
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Hmm all very interesting as in the nearish future I am planning to give the old girl a new set of clothes.
I worked with a guy who was an ex spraypainter, he also said sprying the clear on when the colour was still wet was the way to go, especially for repair work. Worked very well on the Cressi.
Actually to answer your question Ed, this guy i worked with does a lot of home jobs, hes pretty good Ive heard, charges $300 an hour but you can easily get him down below that, hell do everything from sanding to spraying or as little as you want to. He moved down to Callala Bay at Xmas but Im sure hed travel to a job in Sydney any time.
My question is.... if you have paint that is totally rooted.. crazed and cracked to oblivion, is it better to just sand blast it or to carry on sanding with a harsher grade paper.. cause ive got a crapload of hazed paint im im feeling really lazy about sanding it all
In fact when i paint im looking to do my whole job for under $500, I guess im not looking for the quality finish most of you guys are though.. for me, if it looks reasonable at 6-10ft thats good enough.. its only a corolla for christs sake.. not a McLaren F1
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 10:08
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that was my first eva go at painting too
| IRA11Y wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 20:44 |
My question is.... if you have paint that is totally rooted.. crazed and cracked to oblivion, is it better to just sand blast it or to carry on sanding with a harsher grade paper.. cause ive got a crapload of hazed paint im im feeling really lazy about sanding it all
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i used a super cheap sand blasting kit and it worked fine, only downside is that sandblasting is real slow going.
a better solution is to buy a 200-230mm grinder and a backing pad to suit , and then buy 36 grit sticky discs. it cuts through paint real fast but caution has to be takin in that panels can get to hot and begin to warp.
this is what i used andd it was perfect
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 10:15
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| Quote: |
i used a super cheap sand blasting kit and it worked fine
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that is exactly what i was planning on using
maybe ill change tactics 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 10:27
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yeah I was using a little sand blaster for a while and it was slow going. and you get sand and shit everywhere. Plus the damn nozzles kept getting cut open and needed replacing.
stripping the whole car sucks balls. I'd say best bet would be unbolt everything and then take it to a sandblaster. It'll only cost $200-$300 I think. If you really want to do it mega cheap, then instead of using an angle grinder, try to get a variable speed sander/polisher. Turn it down to about 1000rpm and it won't get hot enough to warp panels. The big flat sections are easy enough but the little crappy corners and such are real pains.
My brother used to work for an auto body place. he said they just sandblasted then sprayed a hi fill primer (2pac of course) sanded it a bit then put the top coat on. Couldn't be easier.
Tim.
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 10:46
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| IRA11Y wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 21:15 |
| Quote: |
i used a super cheap sand blasting kit and it worked fine
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that is exactly what i was planning on using
maybe ill change tactics
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i only used sandblasting for rust areas and the places the grinder couldnt go (corners)
grinder is the way to go
brett
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Location:
townsville NQLD
Registered:
February 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 11:11
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here is the setup of my grinder, the grinder only had 1 speed so i had to continuosly squeeze and release the trigger.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 11:17
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yeah if you wanted to do it yourself, that'd be the best. Hit all the flat panels with a big orbital with a very coarse paper and then use the little cheap sand blasters for the fiddly bits.
tim.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Thu, 13 January 2005 12:30
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Anybody tried using chemicals to strip? I might be doing this shortly and I think this would be the easiest way to go. rokusan whereabouts do you work if you don't mind me asking?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Fri, 14 January 2005 04:51
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yes I have also been told to use chemical removers.. im a bit unsure about trying it.. any one used it?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Fri, 14 January 2005 06:11
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I tried it but they were too expenstive and didn't work very well for me.
some of the paint wouldn't bubble up, it's just turn to mush and then it was real hard to get off.
Tim.
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Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Fri, 14 January 2005 07:27
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| buccy wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 23:30 |
Anybody tried using chemicals to strip? I might be doing this shortly and I think this would be the easiest way to go. rokusan whereabouts do you work if you don't mind me asking?
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Personally I find paint stripper to be the way to go, no worrying about warping panels and no dust everywhere. It's slow going but so is sanding!
Paint stripper is nasty stuff though, stings like shit when it gets on you and the smell wont leave your nose for a day or two.
It takes a few coats generally to get the surface back to clean metal, then I usually take a very mild wire brush to the stubborn bits of paint. This is also good to get into nooks and crannies.
It will likely cost a bit more this way though.
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: spray painting FAQ/writeup
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Fri, 14 January 2005 09:39
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| buccy wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 23:30 |
Anybody tried using chemicals to strip? I might be doing this shortly and I think this would be the easiest way to go. rokusan whereabouts do you work if you don't mind me asking?
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hello i would recommend paint stripper, it's the goods for old celicas with old dodgy paint, i have to on mine as the layers of enamel and acrylic touchups will react and fry like a b@&$(ard
I was at rite smash on the goldie, but i'm now working for a conveyor manufacter out west, i have an 85 foot spray booth
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