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Location:
nsw australia
Registered:
January 2005
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Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 10:16
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Hey guys
I just found this forum and was hoping you might be able to help me out with some advice or discussion.
The story is... I'm a p-plater and I got pulled over for speeding a few days ago. I was doing 113km (in a 100km zone) but since I was on my red p's this was 23km over the 90km limit. I have no problem with this though, I was doing the wrong thing and deserved to get the ticket.
What I am not happy about though, is that the cop decided to also give me a ticket for "not complying with p1 licence - not displaying p plates". I have a p-plate displayed on the front of the car, corner stuck behind the number plate. No problem. On the back of the car I cannot do this due to the shape of the number plate area. So I have the plate displayed on the rear window, on the inside, held up to the glass by the brake light. There is no way you could look at the back of the car and NOT see it. Yet this cop told me I am not displaying p-plates.
The speeding ticket carries 3 demerits. Like I said, I don't have a problem with this. But not displaying p-plates is 2 demerits. Obviously this will put me over the 4 point maximum for a p1 licence, and thus my licence would be suspended for 3 months. There is no way I am going to stand by and have my licence taken over this absolute rubbish "offence", so I am looking for any advice anyone can give me.
Should I go to court and fight it? Write to the infringement bureau and hope they can waive the ticket?
I thought I would be clever and quickly get my green p's (more demerits) as I have been eligible for a while. In fact I went to the RTA and passed the test the next day. However after doing some reading I know this won't work as the points are back-dated to the date of the offence 
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 10:46
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I know of a few people who have gone and got their green p's after getting 6 demerit points it seems although the points are backdated to the date of the offence its when you pay the fine that they are applied as paying the fine is an admission of guilt. I havent heard of them getting letters from the rta.
What i do know is that you can indeed write a letter to the rta about the p plates. Take pictures of the rear of your car with the plates in place showing that they are clearly visable and also showing that the place where any other normal citizen would put their number plate is not able to because of the design of the car.
I do beleive you are not supposed to have a p plate displayed behind a window but having said that you can argue anything in court and a good place to start in a letter. I would seek some advise from a solicitor who is experienced in traffic law if the letter is not successful.
Also write down an account of what happened when you got pulled over and exactly what you and the policeman said this will be invaluable for going to court as the policeman would have to recall what happened that night exactly and it is extremly hard to do that. Make sure u do this asap.
When i went to court the police had me comming from the opposite way to which i was travelling for example needless to say that my barrister had used this quite well to my advantage.
If you are correct in what you say happened it seems to me that you got the raw end of the stick and that most cops would have just given you the speeding ticket.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 10:48
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i lost my license for the exact same thing, no p-plates, it tipped me over the edge with my points so no license for 3 months. i think you should write to the IPB, it almost worked for me, and pending their response, take it to court. but just be careful with the way you approach it in court, tell the judge you're stupid for speeding etc. etc. and you have learnt you're lesson, but that you correctly displayed you're p's and that you think its unfair that you are losing you're license for that. if you've got a good record previously they'll probly let it go, and say you need it for work etc. good luck. 
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Location:
nsw australia
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 11:12
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| 4agte wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 21:46 |
I know of a few people who have gone and got their green p's after getting 6 demerit points it seems although the points are backdated to the date of the offence its when you pay the fine that they are applied as paying the fine is an admission of guilt. I havent heard of them getting letters from the rta.
What i do know is that you can indeed write a letter to the rta about the p plates. Take pictures of the rear of your car with the plates in place showing that they are clearly visable and also showing that the place where any other normal citizen would put their number plate is not able to because of the design of the car.
I do beleive you are not supposed to have a p plate displayed behind a window but having said that you can argue anything in court and a good place to start in a letter. I would seek some advise from a solicitor who is experienced in traffic law if the letter is not successful.
Also write down an account of what happened when you got pulled over and exactly what you and the policeman said this will be invaluable for going to court as the policeman would have to recall what happened that night exactly and it is extremly hard to do that. Make sure u do this asap.
When i went to court the police had me comming from the opposite way to which i was travelling for example needless to say that my barrister had used this quite well to my advantage.
If you are correct in what you say happened it seems to me that you got the raw end of the stick and that most cops would have just given you the speeding ticket.
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Good idea about the photos - I will definately do that. And I will be seeing a lawyer asap to find out about how the demerit points work, and failing that to see if I have a chance in court.
How the points are back-dated has me a bit confused. I guess that they can only put the points on the record once you pay the fine or lose at court. But on the RTA site it says something like "if you incur 4 or more points DURING THE TIME YOU HELD THE LICENCE... automatic suspension".
but... I dunno
I don't suppose you are in contact with the people you mentioned who got their greens... I would love to hear how exactly it worked for them
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Location:
nsw australia
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 11:18
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| Sprinter-Saurus wrote on Thu, 13 January 2005 21:48 |
i lost my license for the exact same thing, no p-plates, it tipped me over the edge with my points so no license for 3 months. i think you should write to the IPB, it almost worked for me, and pending their response, take it to court. but just be careful with the way you approach it in court, tell the judge you're stupid for speeding etc. etc. and you have learnt you're lesson, but that you correctly displayed you're p's and that you think its unfair that you are losing you're license for that. if you've got a good record previously they'll probly let it go, and say you need it for work etc. good luck.
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What did they IPB say when they knocked you back? did you take it to court as well or just leave it?
Sucks that you lost your licence for such a stupid charge
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 11:35
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it sucks that anyone should loose their licsense for not showing a p-plate the whole p-plate system is stupid if you ask me. But having my wynge aside i am still in contact with those people and i havent heard of them loosing their liscenses having said that i havent asked them so i will and post it back for you.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 13:25
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P plates are there for a reason.
to display to other drivers that this is a new driver, and may not have the experience of a long term license holder etcetc..
its not hard to have them up, it dosn't tarnish the looks of you're car. why go to the bother of not putting them up, then having to complain about getting punished for not having them shown.
but if ya did have them up and the cop said (in a ticket) that they were not shown.. whats going on there?? certainly something to complain about.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Frankston, Victoria
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 20:24
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you guys have to stay 10km under the limit on "red" p's? Damn you guys get it hard up there. In vic learners are supposed to stay 10km under the limit, but it is classed as optional and up to the supervising driver, whereas P's there is no limits, u just stick to the normal speed limits, and there is only one "colour" p's and ure plates can be either white on red, red on white, or green on white...
anyway to the point, definately take them to court, i reckon its bullshit...
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 21:25
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i thought that it was only a 1 point offence to have one plate not displayed and two points for both plates not displayed... at least im pretty sure it was when i had my p's (old system though)
the officer is right though you arnt supposed to have them in the back window unless it is in the bottom right (?) not in the centre. and the glass cannot be tilted more then such an angle and must not be tinted etc.
so in all seesence you are guilty of not displaying them properly. perhaps it is worht arguging this point as well as the fact that only one plate was not displayed properly and get it reduced to a one point offence ?
there is a list on the rta web site of all offences and the subsequent demerit points associated with them look there are you will see if there is a seperate offence (1 point) that covers not displaying a single p plate.
but definantly talk to a lawyer if wearing the suspension isnt something you can handle then dont try and guess how to do it on your own.
either that or cop it on the chin and get a push bike. although it does seem like you may have been a little hard done by, getting done for both plates if one was ok.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Thu, 13 January 2005 21:43
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if they hit you for a 2 point "not displaying any p-plates" and you had at least one displayed correctly, you should be able to get the offence dropped through the IPB without the hassle of going to court.
and before you take it to court, check up on where you are allowed to display the plate. because if you're not allowed to display it in the centre of the back window (but are at the side of the back window), the prosecutor will just stand up, read from the relevant clause to the magistrate, use your own photos as evidence, and you'll be boned.
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 01:33
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I liked "fart" better 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 01:34
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Not displaying P plates . The s implies more than one.
Enjoy your time off the road.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 01:39
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j'adore Rex
that quote in GT's sig is absolutely priceless.
and if they only did you for 1 p-plate, (1 point?), then you're probably better off copping it, than taking it to court where a smart prosecutor will squash your defence.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 03:43
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Tell em to get farked
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 04:00
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| Evan wrote on Fri, 14 January 2005 14:13 |
Tell em to get farked
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Don't forget to add that the police officer is a Nazi c**t and that the court system is f**king bullshit - judges love constructive criticism.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 04:35
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Just a quick search on RTA site yeilded this concerning conditions for P platers:
Have P plates (red P on white background) displayed conspicuously at the front and rear of the car when driving. If placing P signs on windows, they must be held against the glass, be displayed conspicuously in the lower left-hand (passenger) side of the windscreen and on the lower left-hand side of the rear facing window and must not be placed on any other part of the window area. If towing a trailer, a P plate must be on the back of the trailer. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/gettingalicenc e/car/provisional_licence.html
I guess this reflects the exact legislation so I guess its picky but you'll have to wear it.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 04:37
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Weird when i got pulled over on my R31, i had my green Ps at the inside Centre of my car... i think i was lucky and the police officer was nice....
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 07:13
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i think getting a ticket for that is a load of sh*t. Its like getting a defect for not having any fluid in you washer bottle. Someone had to think up a law so they could try to make themselves usefull. Its also like when ur overtaking ur not supposed to slow down but hey u cant speed to get past the car safley either. grrr
I've said my piece.
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Location:
nsw australia
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 08:23
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| granmra40 wrote on Fri, 14 January 2005 15:35 |
Just a quick search on RTA site yeilded this concerning conditions for P platers:
Have P plates (red P on white background) displayed conspicuously at the front and rear of the car when driving. If placing P signs on windows, they must be held against the glass, be displayed conspicuously in the lower left-hand (passenger) side of the windscreen and on the lower left-hand side of the rear facing window and must not be placed on any other part of the window area. If towing a trailer, a P plate must be on the back of the trailer. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/gettingalicenc e/car/provisional_licence.html
I guess this reflects the exact legislation so I guess its picky but you'll have to wear it.
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Interestingly though, the actual legislation is not nearly so detailed: | Quote: |
(4) In addition to any other conditions that may be attached to the licence, a provisional P1 licence is subject to the following conditions:
(a) in the case of a provisional P1 licence of class C, the holder must not drive any motor vehicle unless there is displayed conspicuously:
(i) at the front and rear, or on the roof, of the vehicle, or
(ii) if the vehicle is towing a trailer - either on the roof of the vehicle, or both on the front of the vehicle and on the rear of the trailer,
so as to be visible from ahead of and behind the vehicle, a sign, issued or authorised by the Authority, displaying the letter "P" in red on a white background
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so I don't know how they can enforce all those other requirements, as they are not stated in law anywhere (and I am sure that 99% of p platers have never read or seen that in their life!)
Anyway, I have taken some photos of the back of the car, this is in the exact place I pulled over, exact same time of day, only two days afterwards. In the second pic you can sort of see how the number plate is recessed and you cannot get a p plate in there. I'll let you decide for yourself whether this is "displayed conspicuously" or not.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
August 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Fri, 14 January 2005 23:01
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One stupid collection of words that.
Why would you have a P plate on your roof?
It,s conspicuous enough for me.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Sat, 15 January 2005 00:36
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It sucks that you got done for the P plate offence, and the P plate is definately visable, I guess I'm thinking that in court they may say that your P plate is covering up one of your brake lights, which isn't safe/legal. Maybe that's what the cop's beef was about, you were obstructing your rear brake light?
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Sat, 15 January 2005 05:30
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As a further demonstration of the life-saving power of correct P-plate placement:
Here in WA you aren't allowed to have them displayed on the OUTSIDE of the vehicle. They HAVE to be placed on the inside of your windscreen / rear window.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Sat, 15 January 2005 09:33
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Cops can be funny sometimes.
My mate got pulled over for doing 120km/h in a 100 zone. He was on his Red P's. No ticket, just a warning. He was wearing a council vest (fluoro green).
ALWAYS be nice to the cops.
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Location:
Forster NSW
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Sat, 15 January 2005 12:19
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As said above, it's covering the brake light. They would get you for that if not the P plate, since it's an offense too (or at least to my knowledge is).
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Ticket for "not displaying p-plates" - help me keep my licence!
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Sat, 15 January 2005 16:21
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It IS 1 point he said but he's only got one left.
I'm pretty sure the points are taken off when you pay the fine (admission of your guilt). If you want to fight it out in court they can't take the points off yet because you haven't been deemed guilty (which is what you're doing when you're paying the fine) so if you pay it after your Green P's you should be ok?
Definitely mention the fact that your P plate was CLEARLY in the center of the window. Mention that you DID IN FACT have a P plate on the back window. Mention that you think it's better if it's in the middle rather than in the corner because it's more visible. Then go on to say it was stupid and wreckless of you to speed and you are paying the price however you do NOT believe in being punished undeservedly.
Tell them over and over again how you had your P plate and all the officer had to do was ask you to move it. Mention how it was STUCK to the window and couldn't even have fallen off etc.
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Location:
wollongong NSW
Registered:
August 2003
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